The LBS v.s. Online Shopping

grimzentide

Likes Dirt
[Source: Cycling Tips]

This past weekend I needed a few consumables for my bike. A chain, cassette, tyres and few tubes. I could have ordered them online but I decided to walk over and support a nearby local bike shop (LBS). I knew it would be more expensive, but I thought I’d do a good deed and support a small business. I expected my purchase to come to around $400 after the considering the price increase. After I gathered everything up and went to the till, my jaw dropped: nearly $600! I couldn’t do it. I walked out of there with only two tubes feeling like a tight-ass. I could order two of everything online and it would have come to the same price. I feel it’s important to support the small LBS, but I’m not into throwing my money away.

This isn’t the fault of the LBS however. I’ve seen what it costs them to buy a set of tyres or a chain. It’s the same as what PBK or Wiggle sells it to us for. In fact, I’ve even heard first hand accounts of the LBS ordering parts off the internet because they can get it quicker and cheaper than they can from the Australian importer.

I have very little inside knowledge of the bicycle industry, but I do know that the online retailers acquire their product in ways which allow them to drastically reduce their costs. For example, they purchase excess quantities of OEM components from large bike manufacturers. They also have low overheads, no GST charges, and access to a worldwide market which helps drastically reduce their prices. It’s obvious that their business model gives them a huge advantage over the Australian distributors.

The LBS owners blame the distributors. The distributors blame the manufacturers and are trying to cut off supply to the online retailers. As a consumer, I don’t care where it comes from as long as I get my gear. By the same token though, I don’t want to live in a place where bikeshops only sell kids bikes. There’s nothing I love more than killing an hour having a look around a well stocked LBS drooling at all the nice cycling products I aspire to own.

Bicycles Network Australia (BNA) has done an excellent study on how online retailers are affecting our spending at the LBS. Although this study comes from a small sample group (261 respondents) their findings confirm what we already assume: Australian cyclists spend a lot of money online and it’s only expected to increase.

Download their study in the Ultimate Guide To Online Shopping here.

Some findings:


It seems that we would tolerate paying up to 20% more on the same product in the LBS. Since we automatically have 10% GST in Australia, this doesn’t leave much room for margin.



We can see that most of the products purchased online are parts, accessories and clothing. Personally, I wouldn’t change my spending habits on these items even if the price were equal in the LBS. They’ll never be able provide the large selection that can be offered online. Even if the one online store cannot offer what I want, I can simply order from another site without leaving the comfort of my chair. It arrives 5 days later with minimal shipping costs and couldn’t be more convenient.



I’m hoping that we’re going to start to see things change. After speaking with a couple Australian distributors they tell me they’re fighting a loosing battle with the online retailers and have begun reducing their margins to remain competitive. Hopefully we start to see these price reductions passed on to the consumer.

There’s no doubt that there’s a place in the market for both the LBS and online retailers. For me, the convenience of shopping online is a huge attraction if I know what I want and don’t need it immediately. In this age we are all very well informed and often know exactly what we want before buying it. However, you cannot replace the LBS for larger purchase items where warranty is a must (bikes, wheels, powemeters, etc).

What are your thoughts? What do you buy from the LBS? What are your gripes towards the LBS? What are your complaints towards the online retailers? What would make you switch over to shopping at the LBS?

I want the LBS to be as successful as possible. I have a vested interest in this and so should you. The Australian distributors and bike shops are the ones who give back to our local cycling scene, contribute to our phenomenal cycling culture and of course support CyclingTips. There would be none of this without them.

(in case you’re wondering, no…this isn’t some covert attempt to extract valuable marketing info. I’m simply curious on your opinion with this issue!)
 

dain2772

Likes Bikes and Dirt
pretty much in line with the findings, I wouldn't buy a complete bike, and haven't bought a wheelset or a frame, although I would consider the latter two options.

Mostly it is parts etc. I bought a tube the other week for $12 and felt it was money I didn't need to spend.

Mind you, I spent $120 another day when I went in for toe warmers, ended up with a book, a rear light, co2 canister and something else. The rear light isn't the cheapest, but I could test it and was happy to buy something with confidence.

I like the LBS, but as has been said many times over, if the difference is half the price, it is hard to justify when money doesn't grow on trees.

I do however avoid testing things in shops, asking questions etc and buying online. I went into a shop to talk about lights and bought a well-known light based on the service provided, even though I could have bought it online for ~60% of the price - although without the australian charger & certification.
 

frensham

Likes Dirt
Perhaps bike shops need to make some changes too? Most still operate on the old marketing style - passing traffic, yellow pages etc. I have yet to see my LBS become proactive and seek new ways to get me into their shop. How about a fitting service for those parts purchased online? How about simply advertising in the local paper such things as weekly specials? How about generating an email list from customers who purchase in the shop giving them the heads up when specials are about to happen? I could go on and on and on about how my LBS could do much more to get me to buy from them but whilst online stores regularly email me with new specials and I hear nothing from my LBS (ever!) why would I bother to go in? There's lots of bleating from local bike shops but not much action from them in my opinion.
 

retroenduro

Likes Dirt
One thing that annoys me is the fact that this big difference in cost on seems to be only in Australia.

Yes there are differences in costs with LBS and online retailers in all other countries ive been riding in but you usually end up paying around 10-15% extra which is fine if you want the convenience of having the part there and then and the sound after sales service.

Why are parts so expensive here? We have a super strong dollar, are located right next door to the manufacturers and have a strong/healthy bike industry. Countries with far fewer cyclists (and for that fact a much smaller population) pay less so im not sure how the 'market share' argument holds water.

It seems that whenever the importers are asked about the prices they also keep on coming up with new excuses, taxes (like Australia is the only place to charge import duties??!), market share (i can get cheaper prices in Bali where there are only 5 or 6 bike shops) etc etc.

I think maybe its a cultural thing that cycling in this country has always been regarded as a niche sport and as i was once told 'an expensive hobby'. I could go into huge amount of detail about this but i dont have time right now but its basically centred around the car culture here and that bikes of all types have been only ever used as sports equiptment or toys for children.

Maybe the realisation that it doesnt nessarily have to be this way will be brought about by online retailing and the importers will be forced from keeping the prices artificially high* (*my opinion as this is where i squarely lay the blame - please do correct me if im wrong).....

Seriously if the difference between LBS and online prices was in the order of 10-15% then i would be happy to get stuff at my LBS but in some crazy cases ive seen stuff online for a thrid of the price you would pay in an LBS. I love going into LBS's because you get all the other stuff into the mix such as yarn spinning etc etc but there is no way im am paying so much money when i can make such large savings. It makes you feel terrible but its either shop online, mountainbike and eat or dont mountainbike.
 

niftydog

Likes Dirt
You can have the best of both worlds - keep some of your money in the country AND get better deals. One of my local shops has opened an online store and is cutting deals with importers and distributors to drop retail prices. Perhaps we will never see the buying power of the big UK online shops, but it's a step in the right direction.

(I bought some tires there for $10 less each than the Chain Reaction price!)

Several industries have already gone through this transformation in the wake of online shopping, but for some reason our bike industry is a little slow on the uptake. It seems some shops are determined to hold onto the 'premium pricing' regime that's been in place for so long - time for them to face up to reality.
 
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Anakist

Squid
I was quoted $2 each for double butted spokes locally, bought a pack of 144 online for about $40. I need 132 of them (4 wheels) so massive saving.

I do all my own computer work too. Very rare that I will buy something from a local shop, they are just too expensive and don't have the things I need.

If the local shops were price competitive I would buy from them in a heart beat. I hate waiting for stuff to arrive in the mail (our local AusPost is pretty crap in general, not to mention the rest of the system), but when it is significantly cheaper to buy online I cannot justify the premium for local.

Having said that, I (used to) use the LBS for servicing and work done on bikes. I am currently teaching myself to do it so I have more money for components. I will still use the LBS if I can't do something myself.

James
 

dain2772

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Several industries have already gone through this transformation in the wake of online shopping, but for some reason our bike industry is a little slow on the uptake. It seems some shops are determined to hold onto the 'premium pricing' regime that's been in place for so long - time for them to face up to reality.
my theory (potentially unpopular) is that many (not all) bike shops are too busy complaining about online sales, CRC T7 etc to actually be bothered doing anything about it.

If another bike shop opened up in an area, then another, would they just sit on their hands and complain, or would they try to compete? (mind you, in this instance, the LBS does get a bit upset if a 'chain' store opens near them) If sales fell because people wanted to ride skateboards, or go to the gym, same question?

There are a lot of different things that can occur in an industry to affect income or costs. Can you imagine if a bike shop didn't embrace a change in technology? The point is that the internet (like most other changes) isn't solely affecting the bike industry, but most other industries are getting on with the job.

I like a bike shop that says hello when I am there (at least 80%) of the time and asks if I need anything most of the time. I like one that is also happy to let me browse. I won't give all my business to one shop, nor will I ever (until price is close to online shops) give all my business locally. But there are some shops that will get much of my local business and there are some that I would try to avoid going to even if I had a flat out the front of and needed a tube to get home. I also like a shop that I see at races, because I know that they really support the sport.

Shops need to recognise that there is obviously still a lot of business out there, and as Frensham says, get a little creative with getting people in the door - and they will be the ones that survive, not the complainers.
 

.:ROBBO:.

Likes Dirt
Fact is we now live in a global market where we can order allmost anything cheaper online sitting in the comfort of our own home. The longer the LBS and local importers spend complaining about it rather than doing something to get customers into their store or buying online from them the harder its going to be to stay afloat.

Anyone who says they would rather spend double the money to buy locally rather than buy online needs help.

Here is a comparison of some of the things I have bought online from CRC over the past 12 months compared to if I bought them online Locally-

Shimano Saint Shifters 9sp M810 - RH Only-...............CRC- $65.14...Locally- $144.95
Shimano Saint Rear Derailleur M810 - SS Short Cage-..CRC- $112.31..Locally- $199.95
SRAM PG970 Cassette 9sp - Downhill - 11-26-............CRC- $53.34...Locally- $89.95
SDG Bel Air SL I-Beam Saddle & Seatpost-.................CRC- $72.22...Locally- $254.90
Shimano Disc Rotor XT 6-Bolt RT76 - 203mm 6-Bolt-...CRC- $46.55...Locally- $83.95
Pro DH Riser Bars 31.8mm - Atherton 2010-...............CRC- $70.10...Locally- $89.95

Total Price from CRC= $419.74
Total Price Locally= $863.65

Savings of $443.91 But I guess a lot of people reading this thread are more than happy to sacrafice this much just to support their LBS.

I work hard(when I work) for my money im not about to give it away.

I have spent $1,728.28 with CRC since the 12/09(Not all were for my own bike). Locally this would have cost me $5000+. In that time I have prob spend $400 in Local stores or Locally on line. And maybe $1500 on Second hand items mainly from this site.

If the savings were enough I would also buy a complete bike on line as my experiance with local warranties on new bikes is not good anyway.


I still spend money here but its usually only if I need the parts today or I can not find what I need on line. I then pay the premium. I also always shop around locally on line to see if I can find a similar price first before buying overseas. But this rarely happens.

T7 also kills the "Market Share" argument. They are based in NZ and also have an Aus base.
 

r.ayres1

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I mostly shop online now, look out for bargains if time isn,t an issue. I was a loyal and regular lbs shopper. After spending thousands of dollars in the "one" shop over a few years, i bought a high end dual suss xc bike off them. While out on the trails one sunny sunday, i saw a fellow rider on the same model bike; after a bit of chinwagging i discovered what my lbs paid for the bike , fellow rider had paid cost price as he worked in a bikeshop.I went back once or twice, but every time i went in there - i just couldn,t help feeling " you ripped me "..!
 
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tomacropod

Likes Dirt
I mostly shop online now, look out for bargains if time isn,t an issue. I was a loyal and regular lbs shopper. After spending thousands of dollars in the "one" shop over a few years, i bought a high end dual suss xc bike off them. While out on the trails one sunny sunday, i saw a fellow rider on the same model bike; after a bit of chinwagging i discovered what my lbs paid for the bike , fellow rider had paid cost price as he worked in a bikeshop.I went back once or twice, but every time i went in there - i just couldn,t help feeling " you ripped me "..!
by making money off you? Chain Reaction makes money off you as well, people!

- Joel
 

Loneryda

Likes Bikes
Well making money off customers is what business is all about isn't it !! and the business with the best price and service, etc... gets the business and hence forth the money. So when all you're left with is a hypocritical form of patriotism, "buy my foriegn products in Australia" your in trouble, who's gonna go to the corner shop when the supermarket is down the road? and half the price!!
I don't feel bad buying online at all. It's all business man, My Money, I work hard for it, I would be a complete fool to pay a cent more than I have to out of some toxic form of alligance.....been ripped on both service and price tooo many times by l.b.s.
 

Mica

Likes Dirt
Aside from the bargains to be be found online the two main reasons I purchase online are:

Poor LBS Service - I have tried many local shops and experienced incredibly poor service over the years and am not prepared to drive across town to try others, kind of defeats the purpose of cycling?!?!? Spent the $$ on a good stand, tools and book and have never looked back. For the jobs beyond my skills I have a new service centre (tiny shop with minimal stock but provides great servicing) nearby who has so far impressed and I'm happy to give my $ to.

Poor Stock - every experience of ordering from a LBS has resulted in a minimum 4 week wait and have many where I am yet to here back after having it written in their diary! Can always find what I want online and have it on my front door in less than a week. Not sure how the LBS is convenient as they rarely have what you need in stock??

Not sure what the LBS has to do to survive but the provision of quality service will definitely go a long way until the issues with distributors are sorted out. After experiences buying bikes overseas I would not purchase in Australia. Buy a bike in Europe and you will ride out of the shop properly fitted and fully equipped (bottle cages, computer, tools.....) without spending an extra dollar. Buy a bike in AUS and will happily sell a bike that doesn't fit and then give you a 10% discount on accessories.

If you vote with your $$$ the cream will rise to the surface as there are now some stores doing a fantastic job is AUS and worth the $$$.
 

r.ayres1

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I wasn,t going to, but i will give you the $ involved.. The bike i bought cost $5300. They made $1000. As i said, i had been loyal to them and only shopped in "their" store for around 4 years ( and spent a F@#ken lot of hard earned coin ) .I just felt that they could have looked after me a little better . Hence my decision not to commit to a bike shop again !! Specials / Bargains Only - Otherwise it,s online browsing for me.:)
 

wazzaa

Likes Bikes
Paying $1k over cost price at that price point sounds like you got a pretty good deal... i really wouldnt be complaining at all.
That isnt 1k profit either... there's labour associated with building the bike up and a portion of floor space dedicated to displaying the bike so you can view it and take it for a test ride before you buy. Then theres post sale service costs, not to mention a wealth of other costs associated with running a retail business.

Sales of high end bikes such as this yours don't happen every day in most shops, but are one of the main areas that help make ends meet for a LBS...
 

r.ayres1

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Sales of high end bikes such as this yours don't happen every day in most shops, but are one of the main areas that help make ends meet for a LBS...That actually makes it sound like i,m being "stung harder" for spending more $ in their shop .
 

CP

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I don't think the LBSs are working hard enough to combat the situation.

Firslty, other than TBSM, name for me a LBS that does a decent ecommerce job? I'd love to browse an Aussie online store and guarantee I'd build up a wishlist and buy some decent quantities if I knew shipping would be fast and the price not crazy. But the majority only have manufacturer links on their site.

My work situation makes it easy to browse and order online, not easy to call them or walk in. Make it easy for me, local industry punters! Your websites are embarrassing!

Secondly knowledge. With limited range I'm tired of the LBS salesman trying to sell me what they've got, not what I'm after. Eg "I need a lightweight headset" was asked to a LBS a few weeks back. They looked in their cabinet, and came up with a Da Bomb headset. Right. "What does it weigh?" - "I'm not sure, but feel it. It's light.". Thanks buddy, really helpful that is.
 

frensham

Likes Dirt
I don't think the LBSs are working hard enough to combat the situation.

Firslty, other than TBSM, name for me a LBS that does a decent ecommerce job? I'd love to browse an Aussie online store and guarantee I'd build up a wishlist and buy some decent quantities if I knew shipping would be fast and the price not crazy. But the majority only have manufacturer links on their site.
Phantom Cycles. Aside from the online store they have an awesome shopfront in Tahmoor and Kerry knows everything about everything. It would be rare that they didn't have a part or be able to suggest a replacement and have it to you within 48 hours.

Cell Bikes also have a shopfront and online store. Not the greatest range bit some very competitive prices on the less esoteric stuff like tyres and wheels etc

There are few others too - check out the local MTB and Roadie mags.
 

skwiz05

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Well. How about this place in Melbourne, just along Princes Hwy out of Dandenong near Monash Fwy.

http://www.cyclingdeal.com.au/

He has a huge online business, a walk in shop, and sells full titanium frames for $1100. Carbon $500. etc.
MTX33 rims: $49. The list goes on. Less than half of normal LBS prices.
He also get some of his stuff from Australian Importers, some direct overseas, and it a MASSIVE warehouse too.

Now this place is the future of the bicycle industry here in Oz.......

I figure it would be like Dirtworks with a shop front at half the prices........ go figure.....
 

CP

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Well. How about this place in Melbourne, just along Princes Hwy out of Dandenong near Monash Fwy.

http://www.cyclingdeal.com.au/

He has a huge online business,..
Are you joking? I thought I'd sus out their range of MTB wheelsets just now. They have a choice of a whopping TWO! Both are quality $99 sets. Link.

And Phantom cycles? The best chain they have is Deore level, and they have no suspension forks. I don't want to sound like a party pooper but I think we all want a one-stop online store.
 
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