Lower back pain - Body Posture

[specialized1#]

My son rode again at the RTE Awaba event, and again was hampered by back pain. Where do I start with trying to address this ? For background info, he is 13, and has shot up over the last 18 months. He is large framed, fit, muscular and plays a helluva game in the front row for the local rugby team - although the brain is not yet fully wired to the limbs

I'd really like to sort this prior to Dargle.

I've identified three main areas to address being; 1. body posture/frame size/ seat etc. 2. Conditioning i.e. just keep riding till you can hack it. 3. Strength and flexibility. But I think if the posture is wrong, no amount of strength/conditioning work would be beneficial. What else ? How to start ?

Discuss ?

 

[Trickymac]

pm'd you.........

 

[Timmy!!!]

Find a good sports physiotherapist and pay him/her for their expertise. I have been lucky enough to have a brilliant sports physio for the last three months and he has sorted out one (massive) injury related issue, and also a knee problem that turned out to be a quads issue. There are so many factors at play that you can't hope to get a safe and effective answer without consulting an appropriately qualified professional.

 

[jathanas]

Find a good sports physiotherapist and pay him/her for their expertise. I have been lucky enough to have a brilliant sports physio for the last three months and he has sorted out one (massive) injury related issue, and also a knee problem that turned out to be a quads issue. There are so many factors at play that you can't hope to get a safe and effective answer without consulting an appropriately qualified professional.

^ +1

A pro fit will make the world of difference.

 

[adaib]

I went to the physio, as i had the exact same problem.
She gave me some stretches and i do them after every ride, sometimes a couple of times a day in the lead up to a marathon. They make it tolerable.

However, core strength is pretty important too.
I assume he does alot of core training through rugby, just ask the coach, but if not, there's a heap of great exercises and information here: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/bbinfo.php?page=CoreTraining

You may want to consider bike set up and saddle choice too. Take him and his steed to your LBS and see if they can make some suggestions

 

[adaib]

Or you could give him an early Christmas present and buy him a dualie. That;s probably do a good job at fixing it too

 

[cluster]

Or you could give him an early Christmas present and buy him a dualie. That;s probably do a good job at fixing it too

Didn't work for me. 1hr flat out racing on my anthem and I can barely stand up straight because of back pain.
Gonna give this a go soon, hopefully all goes well and it helps... even a little bit of extra time without pain would be amazing.

 

[Lorday]

Minus a pro fit - try a shorter stem, and/or raise the stem and/or move seat foward on its rails. This will achieve a more upright position. Failing that - get a pro fit.

 

[spudatm]

Pro fits are expensive bu twell worth it. I recomend the Body mechanic based in Mosman. From my experience self adjusting doesn't always work and can get real expensive if you are buying parts to change your fit.

 

[driftking]

Im not qulified to say for certain but I would expect that riding is not enough training to condition backpain, hence why so many profffesional cyclist have off the bike training.
I would probably do a few things.

1.Find a good physio who can help with what is happening. I personaly found a pilaties studio who are all qualified as physios, pilaties is excellent for core strength and works many muscles that standard workouts can forget. It is important for me at least to goto a well developed place and however this means paying a good amount of money $50-$60 per session. That advantage of these places are, you have close contact with a instructor and is not a mass group, you are given a custom workout detailed to your body needs and your goals.

2.Get a bike fitted to him correctly and set up for his size. I ride majority of dh so for me this is not such a big issue but as far as I know for xc riders and road riders it is very important to get the correct sizing as it has a huge effect on riding position and therefore how stress is applied to the body.

Speaking as someone who is young and due to unconditioning and strengthening of my core during childhood I now have some minor back trouble. For me it was a combination of low core strength, poor posture and poor technique while doing backflips. Best thing you can do is get a assesment from a qualified physio who can detail if there are any issues and give you advice for best course of action.
M2C

 

[Bermshot]

I used to go S Galls camps for X-ing at Dargle back in the day (87-97). Bare with me please. In the evening the big shed would be a muster point, where there was always a presentaion for out-side the riding aspect. one evening I remember a sports physio presenting. He called out "who has a sore back?" Half the shed put their hands up. Physio said "sit up straight, get your finger knukles, and rub like hell on your abs." I stopped to look around and saw the amazement on others faces as their back pain dissapeard as well!

He then explained it as the above posters have, riding position/core. I'm pretty sure the Japanese word is, 'hara' being center.

Have the whip close then set him onto the abb master 2 thousand for a thousand a day....

If that fails, ask the boy how/where/when it aches and post that, the peeps will love to analyze.

 

[mtb101]

My son rode again at the RTE Awaba event, and again was hampered by back pain. Where do I start with trying to address this ? For background info, he is 13, and has shot up over the last 18 months. He is large framed, fit, muscular and plays a helluva game in the front row for the local rugby team - although the brain is not yet fully wired to the limbs

I'd really like to sort this prior to Dargle.

I've identified three main areas to address being; 1. body posture/frame size/ seat etc. 2. Conditioning i.e. just keep riding till you can hack it. 3. Strength and flexibility. But I think if the posture is wrong, no amount of strength/conditioning work would be beneficial. What else ? How to start ?

Discuss ?

what stands out here is the guy is '13', so posture, seat etc, maybe, conditioning, maybe, strength, flex, hmmm (don't know he's still growing)!, my thoughts are he's simply riding above himself and consequently using muscles that aren't able to cope with the load. We all know that issues like back pain, knees etc arise when you go outside of your range of fitness and/or have a deficit from over training etc.

And you know what, this kids is going to hate riding by the time he hits 18 due to pain and lack of perceived success - so the solution is to; 'let him ride how he feels', winning etc, is simply not important to the bigger picture of creating a healthy athlete who enjoys his sport.

 

[shakes]

what stands out here is the guy is '13', so posture, seat etc, maybe, conditioning, maybe, strength, flex, hmmm (don't know he's still growing)!, my thoughts are he's simply riding above himself and consequently using muscles that aren't able to cope with the load. We all know that issues like back pain, knees etc arise when you go outside of your range of fitness and/or have a deficit from over training etc.

And you know what, this kids is going to hate riding by the time he hits 18 due to pain and lack of perceived success - so the solution is to; 'let him ride how he feels', winning etc, is simply not important to the bigger picture of creating a healthy athlete who enjoys his sport.

This!

Could be under-developed muscles from growing quickly and riding/training as hard as he is, it could be doing damage? I would also stick my head into well respected shop to get them to give a quick look over his riding position, if they say it's in the ballpark I'd be inclined to head to a good physio before thinking about bike fit to make sure there is no serious underlying issues...

I've got "lazy" back muscles. As well as my upper body strength is wayyy out of proportion to my core strength. Which means if I don't do a basic core/pilates routine before a big ride to wake up or activate the muscles I will end up with lower back pain. There is too many variables and you guys should seek out professionals before you destroy the fun of competing on him.

 

[specialized1#]

You've hit the nail on the head with regard to enjoyment. The only pressure he gets to ride, is peer pressure which is great ! And yes, at age 13, his body shape is and has been rapidly changing. And I mean RAPIDLY ! He outgrew his 15" frame, so I got a 17.5" Norco duely. After months, the seat pole is at full height.

Thanks so much for the input though and please keep it coming. I'll prepare a multi faceted attack that includes: Several hard sessions on different frames - the problem starts at about the one hour mark and rapidly becomes too much to handle. A visit to the LBS, Mr McNaughton - here we come again !! Maybe an Osteo and/or a sports physio and then general conditioning. The bugger has core strength to kill for - but I know sweet FA about cycling and have never experienced back pain of any sort - touch wood so I find myself ill prepared for this task

Cheers to all

 

[wacko_jacko]

1.Find a good physio who can help with what is happening. I personaly found a pilaties studio who are all qualified as physios, pilaties is excellent for core strength and works many muscles that standard workouts can forget. It is important for me at least to goto a well developed place and however this means paying a good amount of money $50-$60 per session. That advantage of these places are, you have close contact with a instructor and is not a mass group, you are given a custom workout detailed to your body needs and your goals.

2.Get a bike fitted to him correctly and set up for his size. I ride majority of dh so for me this is not such a big issue but as far as I know for xc riders and road riders it is very important to get the correct sizing as it has a huge effect on riding position and therefore how stress is applied to the body.

Couldn't have put it better myself. Follow these two paths and I guarantee he will notice a difference.

You say he has core strength to kill for - well if he is getting back pain then probably actually has weaknesses or imbalances. To begin with you will find intensive pilates (~2 paid sessions per week plus exercises at home) will bring anyone with poor core stability along very quickly in a month or two. The big thing here is getting an assessment by a physio/exercise physiologist who can give you a regime which targets your weaknesses. Definately don't just think doing situps and back extensions at home is working your core - it isn't, and in some cases you may be making the problem worse. The first thing you'll discover with pilates is that your core is not what and where you thought it was.

A bike fit will ensure that you are balanced on the bike and not having to use your core or other muscles to simply maintain your position. Being neutral and balanced on the bike will mean all the stabilising muscles (i.e. your core, which includes some muscles in the back) are not being fatigued as quickly.

 

[Dozer]

I had back pain for 5,463 years and it shitted me. I spoke to many people about repairing the issue and the only advice and treatment I got was to gain core strength. I have said it 1,000 on this forum and I'll say it again: Core strength will repair his problem and it is easy to get core strength! He needs to use the muscles on the front of his torso to hold his back upright instead of his back muscles straining to hold all of him up. Core strength is your answer!
Here's a few easy tips:
-Lay on your back and feel around just below your belly button on each side. Engage the muscles there that connect your lower abs to your "hairy man bits" area. Lift one leg up at a time and feel the muscle engage. Do twenty reps on each leg then sit up and stretch yourself out.
-Get a huge exercise ball and roll around on while engaging the same muscles. You won't get an underwear model's six pack but you will get a strong enough core to sit on a bike for hours.
-Hold a 5kg dumbell in each hand and hold them against your chest. Engage the muscles and twist slowly side to side and feel the muscle group firm up with each twist.
I do this stuff regularly and I no longer have a bad back pain. I'm 6ft 5" and carry some extra weight and can ride for hours simply by doing these exercises a few times a week.

 

[mittagongmtb]

I'll prepare a multi faceted attack that includes: Several hard sessions on different frames - the problem starts at about the one hour mark and rapidly becomes too much to handle. A visit to the LBS, Mr McNaughton - here we come again !! Maybe an Osteo and/or a sports physio and then general conditioning. The bugger has core strength to kill for - but I know sweet FA about cycling and have never experienced back pain of any sort - touch wood so I find myself ill prepared for this task

Cheers to all

Why does a 13yo need hard sessions on different frames. Just let him have fun with his mates. As you have acknowledged - you know little about cycling. Are you and your son members of a reputable cycling club (road +/- mtb +/- track)? If not, then I'd suggest you do become members. Within a good club will be experienced cyclists who will help guide you and your son along. Are you aware of MTBA junior guidelines? How far and long did he ride at the RTE event? Take a look at some of the times below:

Endurance Cross Country for Individuals
Event Participation group Minimum age
4hr – <8hr Solo 16
8hr – <12hr Solo 17
12hr – <24hr solo 18
24hr + solo 18
Marathon (1) Individual, full marathon 18
Individual, half marathon 16
(1). See also MTBA marathon technical regulations
A marathon is defined as a single loop or point-to-point race with no part of the course being
ridden more than once. A full marathon has a distance of between 60 and 120km. Other
distances are possible.
Endurance Cross Country for Teams
Entry into endurance events in a team environment allows for a younger member to participate.
Junior participation as part of a team in multi-lap endurance events, regardless of the team size,
is based on a concept of maximum race time. That is the maximum time a youth is permitted to
race in a single 24hr period.
The following table gives these maximum times.
Age Maximum total race time
12 1 hour
13 2 hours

 

[CQP]

Have a look on Bikejames.com

James Wilson is a strength coach who makes programs specifically for mountain bikers. His website has tons of excellent, free information on it. Search for back pain and go through some of the articles and videos.

Also check this out: http://www.leelikesbikes.com/braaaping-and-back-pain.html - The most informative bit is the comment at the bottom of the page from James Wilson. He explains why mountain bikers get sore in the lower back.

Hope that helps.

 

[specialized1#]

Quote: Why does a 13yo need hard sessions on different frames....................

A valid question. I geuss it comes down to the def'n of "hard". In this case it is my def'n and it is what he and his mates do. He/they are setting the standard, it is, I think, a high one being to compete in 4hr solo events. They have raced in 4hr teams events and have found they don't get enough riding time....bless their little cotton sox and so have done a few solo's. I'm not about to hose them/him down. Its awesome to see their enthusiasm and satisfaction. At their age it isn't so much a race, its more to do with all riding together and finishing. This is the secondary activity. I introduced social rides to complement the team sports and he just loves it ! and it has grown from that. They're idea of fun on a friday arvo is a 90minute hitout - racing each other. One of these kids came 7th in the open mens (solo) 4hr at Del Rio. So I'm gunna get hime to swap bikes with his mates to get some empirical experience on geometry.

Its not a matter of pushing him, more a matter of keeping up !!! And for that I can thank Martin and Julianne from Rocky Trail

Thanks for the guidelines though, thats good info.

Cheers

 

[Bermshot]

It's awesome mate that ye old man is with his son all the way, but I have to pose the question, what do you think O'l man.... Ruggers or MTB?