NSW Increased visitation to National parks: Have your say

sammydog

NSWMTB, Hunter MTB Association
This thread seems to be hijacked by Glenrock, but it is pretty relevant to all of NSW as I believe the success (or failure) of Glenrock will shape what happens elsewhere.

there is space for all opinions on what has happened -I'm simply providing mine, especially as lots of other areas are getting into battles. Unfortunately coming from the side of mtb, we are in a no win situation, we only lose a bit or lose a lot. I suspect most of the problems come from legal fears - I'd have to say that generally mtb'ers are the sort of people who hold themselves personally responsible for their outcomes and dont go whining to lawyers..
To be honest, all I am hearing in here is that you were never going to be happy with the Glenrock POM unless the status quo was maintained.

Where we got to involved compromise from both sides. It had nothing to do with legal fears about user conflict. That issue really didn't come up from any of the user groups. NPWS have never discussed it with me, other than to request we don't have gap jumps.

The issue with the south according to NPWS related to it being a lot less disturbed than the north with a lot more remnant pre-European bushland. It also is the area that has the higher concentration of environmental groups working. Thats why they have tried to restrict recreational use to the north.

Other than management trail there is no trails allowed for in the south. I think the horse inclusion on these trails was wrong, but I am not there to advocate for the exclusion of any group and I won't do it. Horses are a declining use in Glenrock anyway and I think NPWS believe it will just fade out.

I am yet to see a compelling case for bus stop that would have made any land manager keep it open. Certainly Log on Log off is a mess of a trail that should never have been built. Would you care to share your argument or case for its retention?

I saw a lot of arguments pushing for the conservation zone to be pushed back to Scout Camp Road. I think that had a lot of merrit. It would have closed the legal trails nicely, the boundary would have been definable unlike the POM and we would have retained some nice trail, but again the trail from the second creek to Scout camp has always been slated as being upgraded to an all access walking trail.

Now , is the advocacy worth it? Well of course it is. is it the only course of action? I think anyone would be stupid to consider it the only option.

And yes i did ride the shaft new section yesterday a few times and was well impressed - no doubt the better the trail is on the north, the less the south will be ridden. FWIW whenever i encounter a walker I make a point of slowing to walking speed and saying hello - I had a chat to the world trail guys as well yesterday AND the NPWS guy working with them.

I have to say the outcomes at the moment with world trail are great, but to my knowledge they werent promised as part of the POM, they had to be taken on faith that the funding would be found and it would be done - Tiffany seems to be on the carrot side of things to me - quid pro quo.
Yes, the advocacy is worth it. With out it we wouldn't be legally riding in the park. I know that wouldn't stop the majority of people (me included) but its nice to know we can ride and work on the trails without fear of fines or other ramifications. Part of the POM was always to have the North upgraded and made sustainable, rationalising the network as it went. World Trail have been involved since well before the POM (this is their third visit) and I would say it won't be their last. I think this has been achieved pretty well so far.

The NPWS have to make the north work given the departure from normal policy to include single trail. Its been argued, and I agree, that once the north is fixed, working well and numbers increase we will see the south reopened or additional trails added in the north. I've heard comments that indicate this may be closer than we think.

That said, the GTA has been given the light to do the works that are needed as well which reduces the need for funding. The works to Upper Jumping the Gun (or Double Barrel) were completely GTA work so the quality is there, it just takes longer.

next week is snakes and ladders i hear, so that will be a huge test of whether the replacement line is enough to to keep people off the heather run.
It may not need to be. While the new line is running to the top of the quarry to link with the new tip site trail, there is serious discussion about keeping the trail back to the picnic table open.

Even after the POM came out, we have been continually discussion this and a few other trails and this is one that looks like it may be re-routed and retained.

The NPWS are not here to screw us over in glenrock, they have not screwed us over. Far from it. As we continue to work together more doors and trails will open, we are already seeing that. Even the guidelines for trail works have relaxed a long way.
 
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pharmaboy

Eats Squid
jumps.

I am yet to see a compelling case for bus stop that would have made any land manager keep it open. Certainly Log on Log off is a mess of a trail that should never have been built. Would you care to share your argument or case for its retention?

......................................................................

The NPWS are not here to screw us over in glenrock, they have not screwed us over. Far from it. As we continue to work together more doors and trails will open, we are already seeing that. Even the guidelines for trail works have relaxed a long way.
OK, log on log off, has been there for at least 30 years in one form or another, but it was steeper and pretty much wholly used by moto's. the real rutting is imo almost exclsuively caused by motos going up hill in all conditions. the area at the bottom (borneo?) is still in great shape, in my view because its too tight for a moto to ride through physically, so the ruts never start, as soon as it opens up with space, you get rutting. i cant be sure of this is the main cause, but it agrees with everything else i see in nctle - little sections of single track that bikes cant get into stay good why the short cut wide track gets cut up after a year.

mtb'ers seem to be blamed for the track, but the original access track has been there for ages. if there was a solution it would be in the fire trail down the hill (doo rights?) with the reclaim of a couple of cross hill trails to enable a climb (it could be climbed in the mid nineties, but one of the bulldozing jobs cut off a trail head, never to be seen again (at least not by me) - wouldnt surprise me at all, if that bulldozing lead to the additions on log on log off? ie you close one trail, and another is built to get round it.

(Actually come to think of it, 2 birds with one stone, close log on log off properly (with wire to decapitate moto's ;D), make the firetrail down a ride down only or push up, and the the climb to bustop becomes up only, stopping all the wash out in the corners as apparently 95% of riders seem incapable of not skidding their rear well almost on every corner when going down hill!!!!)

The cliff top trail (blackboy?) another one not built by mtbers (ok some was) but the original was used by a couple of horse owners - the first time i used it it was only hoof marks, and a cubby house for kids - the horse aspect is what lead to the steep incline at the end (the least sustainable part of it). In all honesty i suspect that all of kenny's, twisties, upper world cup, and about half of shaft, plus borneo are the trails built by and for mtber's - the rest has existed in some form or another for decades

I suspect that you have been more than fortunate with the local ranger attitude, and i very much doubt that others will have such fortune. I suppose at the crux of all this is that NPWS were supposed to be about national parks, and when given state lands to look after, the beaurocracy keeps thinking like its national park as opposed to what it was, which was state recreation - the mistake was right at the beginning by state govt.

Of course, good luck with all your future efforts is widening the circle so to speak - after all my mtb happiness is in your hands to some degree.

to raintonr - You either need a sense of humor or less time at Hillsong! ;D
 

Refreshinglygood

Likes Bikes and Dirt
OK, log on log off, has been there for at least 30 years in one form or another,
log on log off was built by a small local group about 4-5 years ago. Prior to that there was a DH track that shared maybe 5 metres of what we now call log on log of. That section may be around 10 years old max. This DH trail started in a differnt place, and ended in a different place.
 
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crank1979

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Earlier in the week I asked...

I was wondering how the issue of Mountain Biking in NSW National Parks was progressing? Has the final report on the findings of the public consultation process been completed and is it available for public viewing? Will mountain bikers be consulted again during the development of the actual Sustainable Mountain Biking Strategy and the associated cycling policy before it’s planned finalisation in October?

Today I received the reply below...

Thank you for contacting us.

The report on the findings of the public consultation has been verified by an independent analyst and is ready for publication, subject only to final approval by NPWS directors, which should take place by the end of July.

The revised NPWS Cycling Policy has been finalised and is also with NPWS directors. The publication of this and the NPWS Sustainable Mountain Biking Strategy has been brought forward to August 16, when they will be officially announced by the Minister for Environment and Heritage.

The public will not be consulted again between now and the publication of the Strategy, as the public consultation and associated report have provided adequate feedback for this document. However, stake holder groups will be invited by the Minister on 16 August, to inspect the suggested routes identified through preliminary investigations in to suitable sites for a mountain bike trial in the northern Sydney region.

Furthermore, it is a proposed recommendation in the Strategy, that mountain biking groups and other stake holders may be consulted on a variety of topics during the various stages of planning, design and maintenance of mountain biking experiences in NSW national parks.

Following the finalisation of the Sustainable Mountain Biking Strategy and associated cycling policy, NPWS will seek to engage the mountain biking community through volunteering activities and a series of community events in October 2011. These events will encourage participation, promote conservation and responsible mountain biking, as well as a sense of ownership of national parks as places where high quality, sustainable mountain biking experiences can be accessed.

We appreciate your continuing interest and involvement in this issue.
 

nrthrnben

Likes Dirt
Earlier in the week I asked...

I was wondering how the issue of Mountain Biking in NSW National Parks was progressing? Has the final report on the findings of the public consultation process been completed and is it available for public viewing? Will mountain bikers be consulted again during the development of the actual Sustainable Mountain Biking Strategy and the associated cycling policy before it’s planned finalisation in October?

Today I received the reply below...
Looks promising!

Anyone else got any more info?

Will be watching this space with anticipation!
 

crank1979

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I think it's going pretty well considering a third different person now appears to be handling the project. My impression has been that NK was very much after a positive outcome for mtbing in NPs and I hope that she still has some hand in how things are progressing after being moved to a different project.
 
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Ridenparadise

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Earlier in the week I asked...

I was wondering how the issue of Mountain Biking in NSW National Parks was progressing? Has the final report on the findings of the public consultation process been completed and is it available for public viewing? Will mountain bikers be consulted again during the development of the actual Sustainable Mountain Biking Strategy and the associated cycling policy before it’s planned finalisation in October?

Today I received the reply below...
I hadn't looked here for a while. Thanks for the update. It is so important and also so cool to have the chance to have a say in the use of OUR LAND. This is really important. It seems to be going well. Fingers crossed.
 

hazard69

Likes Bikes
Earlier in the week I asked...

I was wondering how the issue of Mountain Biking in NSW National Parks was progressing? Has the final report on the findings of the public consultation process been completed and is it available for public viewing? Will mountain bikers be consulted again during the development of the actual Sustainable Mountain Biking Strategy and the associated cycling policy before it’s planned finalisation in October?

Today I received the reply below...
hey guys just wondering, now its December, if anyone has any more updated info on the matter?
it would be great to see npws work with local mtb'rs in the northern nsw area. we have some very good single track trails in parks and many more areas that could be opened to use and management of the mountain bike community. with proper education on trail building and managment we can have a minimal impact on the environment and still enjoy our chosen sport- but then again i dont need to convince you guys :) lets just hope the future of 2012 will allow us to work with npws and have many more sustainable legal trails opened up.
just my two cents - happy trails - hazard
 

crank1979

Likes Bikes and Dirt
hey guys just wondering, now its December, if anyone has any more updated info on the matter?
it would be great to see npws work with local mtb'rs in the northern nsw area. we have some very good single track trails in parks and many more areas that could be opened to use and management of the mountain bike community. with proper education on trail building and managment we can have a minimal impact on the environment and still enjoy our chosen sport- but then again i dont need to convince you guys :) lets just hope the future of 2012 will allow us to work with npws and have many more sustainable legal trails opened up.
just my two cents - happy trails - hazard
The Cycling Policy amd MTB Strategy have been released. There's a bit of discussion here.
 

crank1979

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Anywhere else we can post a letter?
You could always hand one in at your local NPWS office to show support for the MTB and Cycling policies.

Contact us by mail
OEH Head Office
PO Box A290
Sydney South, NSW 1232.
For the postal addresses of other OEH offices, click on 'List view' under OEH offices around NSW
 
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