Hunting on public land

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0psi

Eats Squid
What are peoples views on hunting in State Forests and National Parks?

In my line of work I see both sides of the (for lack of a better term) argument. I wouldn't call myself a hunter (although I have done quite a bit of hunting, mainly pest eradication on an uncle's farm) but I'm all for it. Most hunters I know are fairly respectable and responsible people, it helps cull the feral animal population, there have been bugger all hunting related deaths in NSW and if we allow responsible people in there is a better chance of self regulation.

Most of the people I've met who are opposed to it are pretty clueless on the topic. Most seem to think that once an area is opened up to hunting that it's just a free for all and anyone can come in and fire away at anything they want which just isn't the case. There was quite an uproar here when the hunting in National Parks was brought up which was mildly amusing as none of the National Parks in the greater Blue Mountains area even came close to making the list of parks that were going into the trial.
I also suspect a lot the greenies that are opposed to this scheme don't actually spend any time outdoors because as anyone that spends a lot of time in our National Parks will tell you, there's already hunting in our National Parks, it's just happening illegally. Me personally, I'd rather it be made legal so that it can be better regulated.

This will probably degenerate into an epic shit fight but lets discuss. I'm curious to hear the opinion of those that actually get out there.
 
PINT of Stella. mate!

PINT of Stella. mate!

Many, many Scotches
wombat said:
Oh, did you end up finding a park within sight of your belltower? Nice.
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I feel that once the applicable paperwork has been filled in, background checks conducted and license fees paid, responsible hunters such as myself should be allowed to help keep our city streets clean of introduced pests such as urban foxes, pigeons, parking inspectors, charity collectors and speed camera operators.

Obviously a strict quota would have to be enforced but with the increase in licence revenue and pest control, everybody benefits.
 
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0psi

Eats Squid
PINT of Stella said:
I feel that once the applicable paperwork has been filled in, background checks conducted and license fees paid, responsible hunters such as myself should be allowed to help keep our city streets clean of introduced pests such as urban foxes, pigeons, parking inspectors, charity collectors and speed camera operators.

Obviously a strict quota would have to be enforced but with the increase in licence revenue and pest control, everybody benefits.
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You forgot bogans.
 
S

SlowManiac

Likes Bikes and Dirt
As a user of NPs I (quite reasonably) do not want people with guns shooting at shit. I understand it will be properly controlled blah blah. Hunting accidents do and will happen.

This is just my opinion.

There was a program on ABC a while back about the issue. Landowners bordering on NPs were dead against it, including one lady who had a narrow miss walking her dog. Also hunters had come on to private land.
 
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0psi

Eats Squid
SlowManiac said:
As a user of NPs I (quite reasonably) do not want people with guns shooting at shit.
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So how do you feel about people shooting in National Parks now? It's legal in Vic and SA. Illegal in other states but that doesn't stop people now does it?

I'd personally rather have the person that's gone to the trouble of obtaining a permit to be shooting in a National Park than the idiot who is currently doing it illegally. I'm no expert but I suspect the former will probably be more responsible than the latter.
 
S

SlowManiac

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Honestly I'd rather pest control be done by licensed trappers and I feel the same way about VIC and SA as I do about here.

Your argument kind of sounds to me like 'well people drive drunk anyway, we may as well legalise it so we can properly control it.
 
wombat

wombat

Lives in a hole
0psi said:
And how does that stop the yahoos that are shooting illegally in our National Parks now?
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How does legalising it stop them either?
You're arguing that legalisation and regulation will prevent idiots from doing it, but also admit that there's already people ignoring the existing laws. What would make you think that these yahoos would pay any more attention to new regulations than they do to the current laws?
Legalising it won't stop the fuckwits, it will just add law abiding shooters to the fuckwits that are already doing what they want anyway.

Aside from that it's still a totally defeatist argument, as mentioned above: "well we can't stop them, so we may as well just allow it".
 
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0psi

Eats Squid
In much the same way mountain bikers self regulate.

If most of us see someone doing the wrong thing, riding in the rain somewhere that doesn't take it well, riding somewhere illegally, etc. we will generally do something about it. At a bare minimum we give them a solid talking to. We see the bigger picture and realise that we need to do certain things to protect our sport.

I believe (and friends that hunt and the now defunct State forest program have confirmed) that there would be a fair amount of self regulation. A hunter that is there legally isn't going to allow someone that is there illegally to go about his merry way as that would jeopardise their future access.
 
wombat

wombat

Lives in a hole
0psi said:
In much the same way mountain bikers self regulate.

If most of us see someone doing the wrong thing, riding in the rain somewhere that doesn't take it well, riding somewhere illegally, etc. we will generally do something about it. At a bare minimum we give them a solid talking to. We see the bigger picture and realise that we need to do certain things to protect our sport.

I believe (and friends that hunt and the now defunct State forest program have confirmed) that there would be a fair amount of self regulation. A hunter that is there legally isn't going to allow someone that is there illegally to go about his merry way as that would jeopardise their future access.
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I'm sure there'd be plenty of good intentions in terms of self regulation, and maybe I'm just too pesimistic, but I can't see it being that effective in practice. There's still plenty of mtbers that do the wrong thing, just like there's plenty of moto riders, 4wders and horse riders that do the wrong thing too. It doesn't work within these user groups so I can't see why it would amongst shooters.

I dare say there's a slight difference in giving a talking to so someone wielding a bicycle as opposed to someone wielding a firearm. :p

Edit: For what it's worth, I think I'm still undecided on the issue; I'm open to being convinced it's not a bad idea, but I haven't heard any arguments yet that really sway me.
 
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0psi

Eats Squid
wombat said:
I dare say there's a slight difference in giving a talking to so someone wielding a bicycle as opposed to someone wielding a firearm. :p
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Probably a lot easier when you have a gun yourself!

Funnily enough a few local guides came across a group of hunters a couple of months ago in a National Park and called the police. Pretty ballsy move considering none of them were armed the hunters were.

And yes there will always be idiots out there that do the wrong thing but I think there'd be less of it if it were regulated. Have a look at the illegal trail building in the RNP thread. People are pretty passionate (and rightly so) about stamping out that kind of behaviour because they realise that it jeopardises their access to the whole area. I imagine the hunters that would use the program responsibly would be even more inclined to stamp out illegal shooting as it would more than likely jeopardise their access to all National Parks not just an area.

Here's something to think about. How many of you have seen goats, pigs or deer in our National Parks?
 
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0psi

Eats Squid
Oh, and for what it's worth I was against the original plan to allow hunting in our National Parks. Not so much because I'm against hunting in our NPs but a few things in the original proposal made me think they hadn't thought it through as well as they should have.

There is a proposal Mk2 in the works and I like some of the changes they've made. They've reduced the number of permits being made available per week and all parties will have a park ranger as a guide. Basically it means Joe Public will be assisting NP employees with pest eradication.
 
wilddemon

wilddemon

Likes Dirt
Out riding with a couple of mates a few weeks ago and came across a hunter lying in wait for a buck on the escarpment. He had a bow but I'm assuming he was still hunting illegally. We accidentally disturbed the prize and he was a bit upset but took it in his stride. I don't mind them hunting feral animals as long as I don't cop one in the back. The feral animals push out other animals either directly or by providing competition to natives, so yeah get rid of them.
 
harmonix1234

harmonix1234

Eats Squid
0psi said:
What are peoples views on hunting in State Forests and National Parks?
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I support it.
When I lived in NSW I was a registered and R licensed game shooter.
I took it upon myself to go and seek out hard hoofed vermin, (State forest only) foxes and feral cats with the sole aim of conserving our native flora and fauna.
A lot of people don't realise how much damage deer, feral goats and feral cats devestate our ecosystems. It's just a tragedy how much soil salination has become of hard hoofed vermin and the way they rip plants straight out of the ground as opposed to nibbling like our native marsupials do.

I would never shoot anything native. Ever. I was trying to help them.

My friend who I went shooting with also had a great policy.
The first thing he taught me was 'Unless you can gurantee to the best of your ability, that you can kill the aminal cleanly and quickly with one shot then don't take the shot. Even if it is vermin".

I only went hunting twice, at the beginning of my shooting experience and found out quickly that my aim was not as good as I thought it was. So, until I was a better shot I used to just scout whilst my friend shot.

The good thing about the parks system is that you need an R licence. Then, once you get it you then have to apply to shoot in a designated area.
Once you get approval they send you a form to fill out after your shoot.
On the form you state what vermin you saw, and what you eradicated. Locations and times.
Then, you send it back to the game council and they use that information gathered from shooters to get a better understanding of the quantity and types of vermin out there and they can be more proactive and resourceful in targeting specific hot pockets of vermin.
I like this system.
Another good thing is that if you don't fill in your form and send it back then you don't get access to any more aproved sites until you complete the form. Essentially you get banned temporarily until you do you part and log your results. This way shooters are encouraged to gather information and submit it in a timely manner.

I think it's great.

What I do not support is anyone who shoots in forests with shotguns or pistols (pistols not allowed anyway) (And shotguns are fine with rabbits up to about 30 yards), and I don't support hunting with dogs in forests (unfortunately they may attack wallabies or the like), and I don't support shooting with bows and arrows as it is a lot harder to guarantee an accurate and clean shot.

Also, my mate who shot vermin used the animal. He ate the meat from goats and deer and gave it to friends and family.

I think Native forests should have ambassadors for a certain area. Ie, national parks assigns a professional shooter a certain acreage to maintain as their own. They are allowed to shoot only between specified hours and with very specified calibres. They have to report on all of their activity and they are not allowed to introduce any friends or fellow shooters.
Basically a voluntary community service with a NP badge with the specific purpose of targeting the animals that are destroying our native ecosystems.
 
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