How come?

fphmtb

Likes Bikes
You don't see many Australian riders competing at the elite level around the world, such as in World Cup events.

How come the top level riders in Australia havn't made the step up to the next level?
How do you enter in a World Cup event, do you have to be part of one of pro teams, or will we see a lot of the elite Australian riders enter when the World Cup comes to Cairns this year?

Cheers
 

fphmtb

Likes Bikes
Even if you race as part of a team?
How come you don't see many Australians in these teams?, even though I'm sure they are good enough.
 

Minlak

custom titis
Racing World Cups is expensive, as most races are in Europe.
Just did a very quick google and unless I am reading it wrong you pay per round? and the fee is excess of 500euro per round plus travel plus regular membership fees to the UCI plus they fine you if you don't show up after you have registered. So unless you are in a team you would want to have deep pockets. I was also told once that some teams have different levels of contribution to your racing for example they will pay the entry fee for you but you have to pay travel and living expenses. And they may make a bike available to you but it might be at a reduced cost not completely covered.

*feel free to clarify this stuff this post made me curious now (don't mean to hijack thread either)

I think fphmtb is asking why we don't have more Aus competitors assuming they were on a paid ride though?
 

clockworked

Like an orange
there's that argument that regularly crops up that our riders are uncompetitive due to a lack of proper mountains and altitude training in australia
 

fphmtb

Likes Bikes
Is Dan McConnell really on that higher level compared to our other riders?
I know he is dominant but I didn't think that dominant
 

fphmtb

Likes Bikes
Just did a very quick google and unless I am reading it wrong you pay per round? and the fee is excess of 500euro per round plus travel plus regular membership fees to the UCI plus they fine you if you don't show up after you have registered. So unless you are in a team you would want to have deep pockets. I was also told once that some teams have different levels of contribution to your racing for example they will pay the entry fee for you but you have to pay travel and living expenses. And they may make a bike available to you but it might be at a reduced cost not completely covered.

*feel free to clarify this stuff this post made me curious now (don't mean to hijack thread either)

I think fphmtb is asking why we don't have more Aus competitors assuming they were on a paid ride though?
I wonder if some more Australian riders will enter in the cairns race this year?
Also wondering what the additional entry requirements are, as I have heard you only need 20 uci ranking points, which most riders would qualify for.
 

Cúl-Báire

Likes Bikes and Dirt
there's that argument that regularly crops up that our riders are uncompetitive due to a lack of proper mountains and altitude training in australia
Yet our road and track cyclists do well in Europe; the Road Nats today featured a line up full of Australian riders that do well on an international level. The issue is that our peak body neglects mountain biking and sees it as a poor cousin to road and track.

The manor in which they've organised both the national XCM and XCO series is nothing short of a f'king joke! Our riders will never be competitive without quality events, and a quality development program.
 

Hornsby

Likes Dirt
Yet our road and track cyclists do well in Europe; the Road Nats today featured a line up full of Australian riders that do well on an international level. The issue is that our peak body neglects mountain biking and sees it as a poor cousin to road and track.

The manor in which they've organised both the national XCM and XCO series is nothing short of a f'king joke! Our riders will never be competitive without quality events, and a quality development program.
Plus one for this, I remember watching cycling central after Dan McConnel won the first round of the world cup last year and the presenters attitude was "when can this guy get on a road bike". It was very disappointing that this was the opinion of our major cycling specific show
 

thecat

NSWMTB, Central Tableland MBC
there's that argument that regularly crops up that our riders are uncompetitive due to a lack of proper mountains and altitude training in australia
Everyone too caught up in fun bermed trails and thinking technical = a tight corner or two......


Seriously though

More so there's freak all money in it so you have to be very dedicated. A lot of top end XC guys and girls get poached by road teams where there is a lot more support and money.
Unfortunately for them the choice is often sticking with MTB heading over seas on mostly your own bat and raking up a debt or getting on a road team where you get far more support even at second and third tier level
 

akashra

Eats Squid
Can anyone confirm what the cost is for a uci race license and also the entry cost for the individual events
It look as though from this website
http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/g...bjTypeCode=FILE&type=FILE&id=NDc2MTg&LangId=1

That it is 65 euros for a race license
Not sure on world cup events, are they a class 1 or a class HC
In any case if its a Class 1- 840 euros
Class HC 1040 euros

Can anyone confirm, as it seems really expensive
I'm not sure where you got these figures, even matching it up to the registration fees document you've linked - which is not entry fees (except for the bit on the first page) - the "registration fees" in the context of this document are what you pay as an event organiser to have an event listed on the International UCI calendar. The license costs you pay to Cycling Australia for an international license are in large part of that component inclusive of insurance. There are cheaper options that would reduce this if you already have insurance, but in reality your travel and accommodation is going to dwarf the costs of your racing license(s) and event entry fees.

As already said by others, there's significant cost in developing a career to progress in mountain biking, and the simple fact is that there's money available in road that you can be earning to pay the bills, whereas you need to be at the very pointy end before anyone's going to offer you a decent wage in mountain biking.

The issue about technical trails really isn't a problem. While the UCI have been making events more technical in recent years, our riders are losing time to the leaders and other riders around them on strength and fitness, not on technical descents. This is not a new problem. The simple reason Cycling Australia (and to a degree the Australian Sports Commission) like track so much is that, like swimming and athletics, it is a controllable environment, and easy to replicate conditions. Road isn't so much like this, mountain biking is a long way from this, and that alone makes development programs difficult - not to mention the grassroots, talent identification, pathway and elite development and high performance programs that need all work together to present a pathway from grassroots and recreational cycling right the way through to olympic medal production.
 

RED_RACER

Likes Dirt
It cost me $400 ish for a 3 week UCI licence on top of a ca license. Entry to a marathon world series race was free to elite and you still get a stocked goodies bag And freed zones :)

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk
 

Grover

Likes Bikes and Dirt
An international licence is $175 on top of a CA licence or $195 on top of an MTBA licence. This is valide for the calendar year (expires 31 December).
In order to purchase one you must either purchase insurance through CA or provide details fo your own insurance policy.

example: Red Racer's $400 was $175 for the international licence upgrade from CA valid until 31 December and $225 for 3 weeks travel insurance through CA.

The entry fee to an XCO World Cup is a little dependent on the promotor/club running the race but they are no worse than our national series (AU$80).
When I last raced in 2009 the qualification criteria was 20 UCI points, then you just ask CA to enter you. Any Australian can get these points by racing Oceania Championships as the points go deeper than the number of entrants most years.

Actually entering one race is not expensive or difficult.

The expensive part is flights, travel, accomodation and equipment/support.

Even at the top of the sport most are still paying the cost price for their equipment through importers or bike shops. Barely anyone gets all of their logistics covered and even less get any sort of wage let alone one you can live on.

The current example is Dan and Bec riding for Trek World Racing this year even they were either paying out of their own pocket, getting personal sponsors (Crowne Plaza, Anytime Fitness) or using fundraisers (running races). They've obviously proven they're good enough now that they're on a level playing field with support.

Other athletes may be good enough. But to get on a 'team' you need results. To get results you need a good start position on the grid (you're not getting a top 10 from 100th position at the start as you'll be 3 minutes behind after the chaos of the first couple of kilometres). To get a good start position you need UCI points which means spending longer in Europe prior, potentionally a whole season just chasing points overseas so you can get a good start position for the following year in order to prove yourself to a team for the following year. A very expensive two years out of your own pocket.

So...MONEY is how come.
 

Ivan

Eats Squid
Just did a very quick google and unless I am reading it wrong you pay per round? and the fee is excess of 500euro per round plus travel plus regular membership fees to the UCI plus they fine you if you don't show up after you have registered. So unless you are in a team you would want to have deep pockets. I was also told once that some teams have different levels of contribution to your racing for example they will pay the entry fee for you but you have to pay travel and living expenses. And they may make a bike available to you but it might be at a reduced cost not completely covered.

*feel free to clarify this stuff this post made me curious now (don't mean to hijack thread either)

I think fphmtb is asking why we don't have more Aus competitors assuming they were on a paid ride though?
As Grover has said, it's not the race fees that are prohibitive, it is everything else. Travel, accommodation etc.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
Money is obviously well covered and a major reason, if you live in europe its much less a concern.
For most Australian riders to get over there would require sponsorship and we have very little support in australia, the only way to pick up a sponsorship is to go overseas so I guess many riders are stuck in a catch-22 situation of.

Need to race OS for sponsorship> OS too expensive > Need sponsorship to race OS
 

johndh

Likes Dirt
$$ an issue yes, but i believe a significant is a lack of opportunities for xc riders especially compared to road rider eg in Victoria xc riders can race the occasional club xc race (if their local club has them) the next level of racing is 3 national rds around the nation and the nationals in bright. Otherwise they are confined to state enduo series with 6/3hr races. Compare that to the extensive road racing available at a club, state and national level it is little wonder all our good riders are taking up the road.
 
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