Knuckles
Lives under a bridge
When the mud just keeps sticking to your soles, getting thicker and thicker, until you look like a member of a drag queen spice girls tribute band.
Trails in the Rain
- Thread starter natskis
- Start date
silentbutdeadly
has some good things to say
Skyscraper shoes happen when you walk on our mud...you strip off layers of mud as you walk and it cakes up on the soles...high and higher. Also tends to cake up fork bridges and chain stays...
Ridenparadise
Likes Bikes and Dirt
And gets closed for prolonged periods in the rain - you have a very short memory of the last few Summers
mtboer
Likes Dirt
Depends where you live. I'm in Campbelltown and have a lot of choice. Even the local area has Firetrail.
The best way is to Google your area, and if they are there, they will show up on Google.
All the Firetrail shows up here but none of the singletrack. The thing people are angry about here on the Forum is well made singletrack and by individuals
who work hard to make the trails are getting damaged by careless riders. And places like OMV @ Hornsby are Council made and funded, and their future success and ours as riders, depends on common sense.
Good riding. Campbelltown (Kentlyn) is open all the time and you are welcome.
swaz
Likes Bikes and Dirt
http://maps.six.nsw.gov.au/ is even better for sussing out fire trails
Depends on the trail/dirt type.
Some trails can easily take a raping, while other's cant.
As someone who enjoys building trails more than riding them, most trails are better of not ridding in the wet, as they will get damage or with the dirt getting torn up from your roosting/drifting and general sliding around, can change the way the water would normally flow and may cause the water to cut in a rut that isn't very fun and generally once that has happened, it is quite hard or impossible to re-direct the water without building drainage channels.
In short, try and avoid riding trails when it's wet unless the trails are well drained and built, even than, take it easy and try and reduce the damage to the trail..
Some trails can easily take a raping, while other's cant.
As someone who enjoys building trails more than riding them, most trails are better of not ridding in the wet, as they will get damage or with the dirt getting torn up from your roosting/drifting and general sliding around, can change the way the water would normally flow and may cause the water to cut in a rut that isn't very fun and generally once that has happened, it is quite hard or impossible to re-direct the water without building drainage channels.
In short, try and avoid riding trails when it's wet unless the trails are well drained and built, even than, take it easy and try and reduce the damage to the trail..
Ridenparadise
Likes Bikes and Dirt
There is no way to know if trails are stable to ride without seeing them. Sad thing is that most people who gear up and get wet enough to know the trails are wet will not turn around. There's no formula for even an experienced local to know how the trails will perform after rain. If it is has been really dry and then rains steadily and softly for a couple of days, puddles form as accumulated dust on the outslope dams drains. Then the trail cups and you have ongoing maintenance issues. In that situation a good dousing like a storm may improve the trail's durability. In other cases it will erode and soften a trail badly.
There's also no point comparing Australian trails to NZ, Canada, the UK or elsewhere. If you are building trail in a forestry area that will be logged to bits in 5 years and covered in snow 4 months a year, who gives a shit? If you are riding on volunteer maintained trail where volunteers struggle to get an understanding of MTB sustainability from a land manager like national parks or council, then a very small amount of abuse can create major issues.
My opinion is that if you go out on a wet day and do not stop OFTEN to clear drains and smooth ruts preventing puddles from draining, then you should not be there. That is to say you should be doing trail work unless the trails are good to go. Also, if you are saying you should ride whenever and whatever you like because it is up to the builder to get it right regardless of use and weather events AND YOU DON'T HELP WITH TRAILCARE, then you are a dick.
There's also no point comparing Australian trails to NZ, Canada, the UK or elsewhere. If you are building trail in a forestry area that will be logged to bits in 5 years and covered in snow 4 months a year, who gives a shit? If you are riding on volunteer maintained trail where volunteers struggle to get an understanding of MTB sustainability from a land manager like national parks or council, then a very small amount of abuse can create major issues.
My opinion is that if you go out on a wet day and do not stop OFTEN to clear drains and smooth ruts preventing puddles from draining, then you should not be there. That is to say you should be doing trail work unless the trails are good to go. Also, if you are saying you should ride whenever and whatever you like because it is up to the builder to get it right regardless of use and weather events AND YOU DON'T HELP WITH TRAILCARE, then you are a dick.
I have no issue riding trails in the wet after all we are in a sport that sometimes means race day is in the wet. Wet riding is easily one of the best times for me as a downhill rider to learn because it adds that very significant element to the trail that aids dry riding too. Now that said I would avoid riding any closed trails and I would be very hesitant to ride any official trails even when open, most my riding is done on 'unofficial' trails so for me its not as bad, most trails been fairly weather worthy and rocky.
Been dh trails its not too much of a hassle to go back over the trail at the end of the ride and fix up any ruts created as well. For those doing xc loops and the like, a track run over is well impossible. however id also question how much damage xc riding does, id think the damage is significantly less than more extreme forms of riding.
Riding in the rain is brilliant, if this were the uk we would have no option, but until trails are built with more weather worthy materials try stick to personal trails.
M2c
Been dh trails its not too much of a hassle to go back over the trail at the end of the ride and fix up any ruts created as well. For those doing xc loops and the like, a track run over is well impossible. however id also question how much damage xc riding does, id think the damage is significantly less than more extreme forms of riding.
Riding in the rain is brilliant, if this were the uk we would have no option, but until trails are built with more weather worthy materials try stick to personal trails.
M2c
Depends how wet, some times it can be too wet where racing would be detrimental to the track at which point, is better to cancel the race.
Ridenparadise
Likes Bikes and Dirt
I should have ben more specific. DH tracks are meant to be nasty and erosion is always a factor on steep grades. Riding in the wet is a fact of life on race days, so it is hard to be critical of a bunch of DHers training on the trails they build. There is an interesting thread on rain and racing on MTBR, but it's all XC oriented.
No doubt, and riding/racing in the rain can be fuunnnn dem slippery rocks.
However, depending on the track and the type of dirt, the overall track health is more important than a race.
To give you an idea of what racing when it is too wet can do, take a look at the Lea DH track in Hobart.
It had been bucketing down most of the day, the track was soaked to the point of a river, but the club made the wrong decision and kept the race on, so we kept flogging it into oblivion.
By the end of that race, it was terribly ruted out and no one liked the track, once section particularly was just not fixable so they ended up putting a wood feature to bypass the ruts lol.
Track was never the same after that day.
So while racing in the wet is apart of the sport, you do need to put track health over a race.
We built tracks to be ridden and enjoy our riding, even in ideal conditions riding creates erosion and we ride because we love it, sometimes we need to deal with weather, while rain will accelerate the erosion and yes if you can avoid it go for it but for those training who use wet weather as a training time or have a training ride scheduled for those days or even those who just cant ride any other day due to commitments. For those and id think most, riding and having fun is whats important as tracks will always be fixed but time wont be gotten back.
As for racing.
Whats necessarily logical for the trail isn't always best nor what matters for racers or the calendar.
How often does a race get cancelled from rain when its not a flood risk, I don't know any off the top of my head for downhill races cancelled on a state or higher level (anyone else know of some?). For club rounds I can see the argument but for racers who participate in state, national and/or have the future prospect of worldcup rounds you don't have a choice. The best training for a wet race is to train in the wet.
Although wet riding definitely crosses over to dry riding, if you can ride fast in the wet your usually much faster in the dry.
I will note my original post did mention that I'd stick to "unofficial" trails and try to avoid official trails even if open.
Ultimately we should be building weather worthy trails, however as far as specific dirt and building goes it does cost more and we don't have the sort of funding or rider numbers other countries have to really afford to poor lots into it.
Look, it really depends brah.
I'm talking purely on a track health level here, not on a personnel level.
It really depends on the track and the ground, some tracks will fuck up even more in the dry and some will be better in the wet and some will suck in the wet in terms of track damage.
I just mentioned one where the race should have cancelled.
Though I've never had any races at a national level that were wet, they were mostly all bone dry.
I can't comment on the personnel thing though, just that I hope they respect the track and clear up any back log of water.
On the whole training thing for higher levels, that's fine but same deal goes, clear up any backlogs of water.
I've done a lot of trail building in my short time in the sport so I understand the different soils geography etc works differently, as I said, some tracks are great when they are bone dry, while other suck when they are bone dry.
On the whole "Building weather worthy trains but not having the money on population in the sport"
While it does cost a lot extra in terms of tools, I think you'd find if people were willing to put the extra effort into learning how to read the terrain and the geography and learn proper trail building and put time into research on skills and technique, you'd be surprised what you can do with hand tools.
Last edited:
Knuckles
Lives under a bridge
Probably not so early on set Alzheimer's....
....nope, I remember which post I was replying to.
I think that's all a fair point and from a track health position that makes perfect sense but I also think its impossible to separate track health from the sport, which is what your points are doing (which is fine from that stand). However its not just a personal level here but the sport as a whole. How the tracks fit into the sport matters. Ultimately we are riders first who builders second who build tracks for riding. If we were building tracks to look pretty and stay pretty riding would not be our priority but we are riders and riding is the priority in the sport and track condition comes second. For recreational riders where ride days can be rescheduled I think its crucial to consider track condition and track longevity here. For race days and those who train the track condition is less of a worry, nor is it on top of their priority list, for them performance, training and the race day is what matters.
For riders who cant reschedule rides sometimes wet riding is their only choice and given we are riders its what we do its how we have fun, it takes priority over track condition. From a building perspective its a very negative outlook on the trails but reality is we are riders first.
Last edited:
Oh I hear ya on all the personnel things, life gets hectic at times and some times you can't just reschedule a ride cause of the wet if it's your first ride in months, that's where I'd be understanding on them, same with training for higher levels exceeding national level.
Hmm, I must be one of a few who enjoys building tracks more than actually riding, so for me it is opposite. It doesn't happen often, but some times there are without a doubt, times where it is just too wet to race.
Some times, though this is not often, you need to consider the track condition even on a race day, else you may completely root the track like the club did with the Lea that day. It's better to cancel a race because it's too wet than having to spend a few hours over multiple weekends to fix up the track..
T-Rex
Template denier
This statement is half right.
When a track has had a good soaking of rain, and it's a big race like a state or national round, the track is absolutely obliterated by Sunday afternoon. Axle deep ruts and churned up slush in every corner.
And this is why IMO practicing DH in the rain outside of a race weekend is a waste of time. You will never recreate the track conditions that a couple of hundred riders create on a saturated track, when it's just you and a couple of your mates riding.
However, as for cancelling a race because of rain.... maybe if the shuttle road became impassable, or there is an ongoing lightening strike risk for the chair lift, but I haven't seen either of those cause a race cancellation, and certainly not because of rain..... which of course does not mean it's never happened. No organiser is going to cancel a race on people who have driven 100's of KM to get there, just because they are going to damage the track.
EDIT: and Skydome, thanks for all your trail building efforts, don't let the above comments discourage you.
Last edited:
Ridenparadise
Likes Bikes and Dirt
Quote Originally Posted by Knuckles View Post
See You Yangs for how its done. Drains phenomenally well and imho rides better after rain.
And gets closed for prolonged periods in the rain - you have a very short memory of the last few Summers
See You Yangs for how its done. Drains phenomenally well and imho rides better after rain.
And gets closed for prolonged periods in the rain - you have a very short memory of the last few Summers
So which post was it you were replying to when you forgot the Youees being closed for months in 2012 and 13? Not trying to be a jerk here, but confused.
Last edited:
Knuckles
Lives under a bridge
Dozer's complaint about making trails suited to Australian conditions. Youies hold up exceptionally well in the wet, regardless of whether they panic close it or not. A closed trail is unrideable regardless of climatic conditions.
There is a similar situation in the industry I'm in, where they spend millions constructing turf playing surfaces to be playable in all but the worst rain events, yet the twots still close the fields for a week after 50 mm of rain.