McFlow trails and the decreasing diversity of trails

bigdamo

Likes Dirt
All I'm advocating for is the trail builders doing less work and leaving the trails at a more 'natural' stage where they tend to evolve by themselves (funny that). The best trails on the planet IMHO are trails that have been built/formed by cattle, horses, goats etc and a few walkers. Having just ridden the 5 EWS stages in Chillan, Chile, apart from some sub 3 min sections in the bike park (lame Mcflow shite), none of them were built by trail builders. I heard that Pinkbike voted this the best overall riding destination of 2014. We don't have many cattle, horses and goats forming natural trails (over hundreds of years) on our small hills, but it's certainly possible to replicate this type of effect.
Yep rode live stock trails up into the Tian shan mountains in China some of the best trails I've ever ridden. Got me beat why I need an all mountain bike to ride the man made trails we have here in OZ.here's a vid from a mate in another part of China. This is what I want this is what I crave. Not some buff smooth bermed man made track. http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzk4MjE2MjU2.html
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
I had seen the inside of what were considered the better hospitals in China and decided to remain on the roads.
 

bigdamo

Likes Dirt
I had seen the inside of what were considered the better hospitals in China and decided to remain on the roads.
And I have(as with my friends and family) seen the inside of what were considered the better hospitals in OZ and were some what majorally let down. Not to say some Hospitals in China are great far from it. But rememeber a friend break a bone in a few places in his leg while skiing at perisher getting transferred to Canberra they didn't want to touch it there getting transferred to Sydney and they still F***ked it. i remember both my parents going into the better private Hospitals here and coming out with golden staph. Johnny Don't like hospitals better give up MTBing. Take up chess.
 
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johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
Ah, yeah, just Chinese hospitals. I'm intimately familiar with australian hospitals and you can trust me when I tell you that even for their faults they exist in a completely different universe than the better public hospitals in China. For starters the staff I'm australia don't often smoke and spit on the floor of the wards and the don't tell patients to clean up their own vomit and blood.

Pity too as I saw some fantastic riding spots and there was a burgeoning DH scene in Beijing as well. I think the Olympics left some decent trails there as well. I left China after
Living there for a few years and even in that time I saw subcultures like fixes, vintage and urban trials start to take off. Would love to see MTB take off in some of the more southern provinces.
 

bigdamo

Likes Dirt
Ah, yeah, just Chinese hospitals. I'm intimately familiar with australian hospitals and you can trust me when I tell you that even for their faults they exist in a completely different universe than the better public hospitals in China. For starters the staff I'm australia don't often smoke and spit on the floor of the wards and the don't tell patients to clean up their own vomit and blood.

Pity too as I saw some fantastic riding spots and there was a burgeoning DH scene in Beijing as well. I think the Olympics left some decent trails there as well. I left China after
Living there for a few years and even in that time I saw subcultures like fixes, vintage and urban trials start to take off. Would love to see MTB take off in some of the more southern provinces.
Emm looks like you work in Health Johnny and hats off to all those people that work in health long hours not getting payed what they really should be but I lived in china for many years also and as you would know that there are no medical centres in China want a see a Doc( well real one) and its the hospital. So i've been to Chinese hospitals many a time never seen the staff spit on the floors(seen them spit into spitoons provided though) never seen patients made to clean up there own vomit and blood plenty of nurses to do that. I have seen my mother fall over in her own vomit break her femur lie on the floor for 2 hours before someone came and helped her (thats in an Aussie hospital) They have long since stopped smoking in hospitals in China. Must of been there a while ago Johnny.

So I guess we both have different experiences. I once said if i stuff up( I was MTBing and back country skiing in China) medivac back home now I ain't to sure now.DH scene in Bejiijing I think you might of meant in the distant hills ie ski resort where they have Chair lifted runs on the local ski resort in summer. They have been doing bike trials for at least 15 years now and it ain't only urban.
 
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johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
The person told to clean up her own vomit was my wife and the hospital was wanjing Beijing, the year was 2010.

The DH scene was a small crew that had built their own trails in the foothills of Beijing (this was in about 2006/7) I know the ski area your talking about (bruised my arse learning how to snowboard there) and I'm not sure if there are any trails there nowadays, wasn't back then. If you're there looking for local guys to ride with check to see if there's still a modern bike shop just to the east of the south gate of Houhai Gong Yuan. That was their shop and the guy who ran the shop did most of the organizing (think he also may have even spoken English, If I recal).
 
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Nautonier

Eats Squid
Yep rode live stock trails up into the Tian shan mountains in China some of the best trails I've ever ridden. Got me beat why I need an all mountain bike to ride the man made trails we have here in OZ.here's a vid from a mate in another part of China. This is what I want this is what I crave. Not some buff smooth bermed man made track. http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNzk4MjE2MjU2.html
Nice video, that looks like some sweet terrain. Was that dudes with motorbikes beside the trail?? Good how the walkers got well out of your way, they do this in South America as well. This video highlights for me some of the most amazing aspects of riding in different parts of the world on natural trails: different scenery, different dirt, different flora/fauna, different rock/geology and a different vibe. And religious iconography! It's a great way to see more of the world and get more trail diversity under your wheels.
 

bigdamo

Likes Dirt
The person told to clean up her own vomit was my wife and the hospital was wanjing Beijing, the year was 2010.

The DH scene was a small crew that had built their own trails in the foothills of Beijing (this was in about 2006/7) I know the ski area your talking about (bruised my arse learning how to snowboard there) and I'm not sure if there are any trails there nowadays, wasn't back then. If you're there looking for local guys to ride with check to see if there's still a modern bike shop just to the east of the south gate of Houhai Gong Yuan. That was their shop and the guy who ran the shop did most of the organizing (think he also may have even spoken English, If I recal).
http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Breaking-Down-Walls-the-Search-for-Mountain-Bike-Culture-in-China-2013.html
 
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johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
Wow, things have definitely progressed since I left 5 years ago. That dirt is way better than the stoney and dusty trails I rode. Very few bikes were available in Beijing as well, most people had their DH/FR bikes sent over from HK or Taiwan. Just before I left there was a film launch for something locally made in at QiJiuBa and you could see a lot of young middle class guys and girls and you could see that the identity of the bike was transitioning from being seen as the poorer-person's transport to a recreational device. Can't help but feel I left a few years too early!

Incidentally, I lived about 3 blocks from that second pic down in Chaoyang.
 

Ridenparadise

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Wow, those Chinese ski hill tracks were the best 1000 year old goat tracks I've ever seen and while we're at it, the other vid made me really keen to ride because none of the trails were smooth and 1m wide! Funny how people see and say whatever the hell they want. Today's opening page vid of Santa Cruz at the NZ enduro starts with dude extolling "no machine built trail", but I'm not sure I saw anything that couldn't have been made the same with a machine.
 
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bigdamo

Likes Dirt
Nice video, that looks like some sweet terrain. Was that dudes with motorbikes beside the trail?? Good how the walkers got well out of your way, they do this in South America as well. This video highlights for me some of the most amazing aspects of riding in different parts of the world on natural trails: different scenery, different dirt, different flora/fauna, different rock/geology and a different vibe. And religious iconography! It's a great way to see more of the world and get more trail diversity under your wheels.

"Was that dudes with motorbikes beside the trail??" Yes local farmers going up to tend to their crops and/or livestock.
 

bigdamo

Likes Dirt
Johnny I lived in China( Xinjiang) around the time you did but have been going there for quite a time. Here is some MTBing from Xinjiang not me in the video. I rode the livestock trails up in these mountains the locals preferred to stick to the fire trails.@6.04 is a natural hot spring good in winter when the outside temp it is around -25c.

http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XNjY1NjgxODIw.html
 

Ridenparadise

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Time and Trail

I like riding for fun. I like building trail that offers fun riding. I like technical riding, although one rider's technical is a other rider's footpath. I like all riding.

After decades of thinking about it all and years of trailwork, I have my own ideas about trail construction and diversity. All too often criticism of "generic" "flow" trail design is either a knee jerk reaction to the trail immediately after it opens, or just something riders thought they should say because that's what you say when you are presented with something you haven't yet got the hang of. That's right, riders who think they are good, but can't ride outside their skill set blurt out bullshit to hide their failings.

In the case of the trail on the following vid (I don't know the rider), it has been called "Tooooo Wiiiiiide and Tooooo Smoooooth" toooooo often. As it is a re-route of an old, degraded trail, it has also been accused of losing all its challenge and having all the corners removed. I can vouch there are more corners than there used to be. You can decide what you think about this generic "flow" trail. It was opened around New Year, although one bit is >15 year old and another is > 1 year old. See if you pick them.

[video=youtube;0r-prQpl3i8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0r-prQpl3i8[/video]

I posted this vid in another thread, so sorry to anyone who has seen it.
 

bowtajzane

Likes Dirt
mate,I'd be happy if you could transport a couple of k's of that
down to the royal in Sydney.....
and for the na-sayers up there, tell'em there dream'n if they think
that's a bad "flow trail"
 

MarioM

Likes Dirt
I like riding for fun. I like building trail that offers fun riding. I like technical riding, although one rider's technical is a other rider's footpath. I like all riding.

After decades of thinking about it all and years of trailwork, I have my own ideas about trail construction and diversity. All too often criticism of "generic" "flow" trail design is either a knee jerk reaction to the trail immediately after it opens, or just something riders thought they should say because that's what you say when you are presented with something you haven't yet got the hang of. That's right, riders who think they are good, but can't ride outside their skill set blurt out bullshit to hide their failings.

In the case of the trail on the following vid (I don't know the rider), it has been called "Tooooo Wiiiiiide and Tooooo Smoooooth" toooooo often. As it is a re-route of an old, degraded trail, it has also been accused of losing all its challenge and having all the corners removed. I can vouch there are more corners than there used to be. You can decide what you think about this generic "flow" trail. It was opened around New Year, although one bit is >15 year old and another is > 1 year old. See if you pick them.



I posted this vid in another thread, so sorry to anyone who has seen it.
I like the look of that trail , seems to have some good variation too .
 
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