Rigid Frame for DH - indulge my fantasy

[johnny]

Have missed DH ever since I stopped in 06 but don't have the money to splash on a full DH sled nor the time to travel to trails with enough of a crew to run shuttles in order to justify $4k on a new ride. Bit of a long-term dream as I'm saving for another property and have to do anything on the cheap and when opportunities arise. But if I want to ride DH again this is about the only way I'm going to achieve that.

So, I'm happy enough to consider a rugged rigid frame with DH parts on it in order to keep costs down. Would pick up an old set of long travel forks, and would pretty much have the rest of the bike available by cannibalizing my other bikes for the day at least.

Only thing is identifying a frame that could take the stresses of a longer fork and that is up to the ravages of DH riding. Anyone have any suggestions or experience they can offer on this?


PS, I did search but didn't come up with anything useful. Feel free to n00b me out and post links to what I may have missed.

 

[Ideate]

What you mean rigid? :ranger:

 

[hazza6542]

So many older dh bikes going for $1k or less now, relatively cheap for what you're getting. Or just go an STP with monster T's, tried and tested..

 

[johnny]

No rear suspension. Thinking something like a Norco Rampage, if that or something similar would work.

An evil or Nicolai would be perfect but out of my reach...

 

[Ezkaton]

I'd be more concerned about my knees than the bike frame... :help:

 

[johnny]

So many older dh bikes going for $1k or less now, relatively cheap for what you're getting. Or just go an STP with monster T's, tried and tested..

Yeah, mate picked up an old Faith for $700 recently that was in great nick. The reason I don't really want to do that is a) because that requires a larger outlay straight up and that's harder to justify to the rest of the team; b) a bike with rear suspension can have more go wrong with it and be more expensive to maintain; c) if I'm going to buy a proper DH rig, after riding bikes of high standards in the past it's going to be more difficult to ride something of a lower standard now. Easier just to go full-pig and build a bomb-proof plow machine that I won't care about when it gets beat up.

I did think of the STP as well, only thing is that I've never actually spoken to anyone that's had long travel forks on one and thrown it down some DH trails for a goodly amount of time. No doubt it's occurred many times, I just want to actually hear from some one who definitely has that experience.

 

[pink poodle]

I've got a norco frame designed for just this...even has a 150x12mm rear end.

NS make a suitable frame, or used to. Can't recall the make just now. Steel...strong.

Have missed DH ever since I stopped in 06 but don't have the money to splash on a full DH sled nor the time to travel to trails with enough of a crew to run shuttles in order to justify $4k on a new ride. Bit of a long-term dream as I'm saving for another property and have to do anything on the cheap and when opportunities arise. But if I want to ride DH again this is about the only way I'm going to achieve that.

So, I'm happy enough to consider a rugged rigid frame with DH parts on it in order to keep costs down. Would pick up an old set of long travel forks, and would pretty much have the rest of the bike available by cannibalizing my other bikes for the day at least.

Only thing is identifying a frame that could take the stresses of a longer fork and that is up to the ravages of DH riding. Anyone have any suggestions or experience they can offer on this?


PS, I did search but didn't come up with anything useful. Feel free to n00b me out and post links to what I may have missed.

 

[johnny]

I've got a norco frame designed for just this...even has a 150x12mm rear end.

NS make a suitable frame, or used to. Can't recall the make just now. Steel...strong.

What model is the Norco? I was thinking of the Rampage or something.

 

[spoozbucket]

The old hardtail frames suck, all of them, people may have fond memories but hey, geometry has moved on.

The main things I look for are, Cr-Mo frame, slack head angle, long reach and sub 350mm BB height. Old frames are generally short, tall and just all round horrible, yes they could be ridden fast but so could rigid bikes in the 80's and 90's.

New Ragley frames should be pretty well priced and I believe they come out next month, unless you are buying something like an NS Eccentric/Surge, Ragley Blue Pig, or a Transition Trans Am I probably wouldn't bother.

That is all of course, my opinion, and I am no doubt wrong.

 

[johnny]

Agree that head angle on bikes like STP and so on are a bit of a drawback. I'd be looking for something slacker and possibly even gusseted a la Evil/Nicolais above.

 

[will2]

What model is the Norco? I was thinking of the Rampage or something.

I have Norco Rampage now which I use for All-Mountain riding, pretty hard riding I would say. My rampage 05, has a HA of 67 with 130mm revs. Through 180m through there and bang should be a 64ish probably less. Good bike can vouch for. You would have some serious trouble attempting to break one.
I reckon do it, Dual crown mightn't be the best idea, old set of Totems or 66's if you can find a someone to flog them off cheap.
There is a guy on here by the name of Pete, he used to have Twenty-four with Manitou Shermans, you will probably know it, it was fluro. Rode it all through SEQ, all the downhill races, everything, was a pretty sick bike. The headtube weld eventually cracked. That was from a fair few years of absolute savage abuse.

The old hardtail frames suck, all of them, people may have fond memories but hey, geometry has moved on.

The main things I look for are, Cr-Mo frame, slack head angle, long reach and sub 350mm BB height. Old frames are generally short, tall and just all round horrible, yes they could be ridden fast but so could rigid bikes in the 80's and 90's.

New Ragley frames should be pretty well priced and I believe they come out next month, unless you are buying something like an NS Eccentric/Surge, Ragley Blue Pig, or a Transition Trans Am I probably wouldn't bother.

That is all of course, my opinion, and I am no doubt wrong.

Yep, you're wrong. The rampage's are still a pretty good geometry for going down. Yes out dated, but still work very well.
AM hardtail wouldn't be so great, Ragley and the like.

 

[pink poodle]

What model is the Norco? I was thinking of the Rampage or something.

I've got a rampage. There is also the manic or sasquatch which could handle the job, but they run 135x10. They really are a monster of a bike. When it was new it came with marzocchi 66s. The manic had a few years running marzocchi dual crown drop offs.

 

[pink poodle]

There is an old banshee for sale on here from the era of big forks on hard tails. I posted in it a few weeks back and still haven't heard back.

 

[spoozbucket]

Yep, you're wrong. The rampage's are still a pretty good geometry for going down. Yes out dated, but still work very well.
AM hardtail wouldn't be so great, Ragley and the like.

Why wouldn't an AM hardtail be any good, it's not as if there is really such a thing as a DH hardail, and hardtail huck bikes don't count.....?

Ragley's are cheap, slack, made from Cr-Mo, have an acceptable BB height and have a pretty decent reach number. I raced DH for a year and a half on a couple of On-One hardtail frames and they were tolerable in 08-10 but they are compete heaps of shit compared to frames out there now.

I do second the vote for a Totem, I butchered a coil version to give about 130mm of travel with an Avalance damper and it worked well. In my opinion more than 5" of travel on a hardtail gets scary, if you start with a 67deg HA you'll be looking at ~74degrees and a stupidly low front end when you bottom it out, it's pretty easy to get spat if you hit another rock when you are still deep in the travel.

 

[FoxRidersCo]

All the good frames have disappeared

This is a list of pretty much unobtainable frames, they're out there but rare/scarce

Nicolai BMXTB
Evil imperial
Snipes Elemental
Journeyman Block 8
Clifcat Tankass
Black Imperator
Alutech DDU
.243 DH
TwoFour Porn King/Toy 4
NS Bitch
Banshee Morphine
Richi Big Bear
Soul Cycles Sluggo
Darkside Zoo War
Boy Bike Co Daredevil
Zonenschien Leonardo
Duncon Pitbull/Cock/Cocker & Pussy
DaBomb CR8
Grossman FDT
Astrix Union
Ellsworth Specialist
Balfa Minuteman
Azonic Steelhead
Spooky Cycles Bandwagon
Cortina Europa
Sinister Ridge

 

[will2]

Why wouldn't an AM hardtail be any good, it's not as if there is really such a thing as a DH hardail, and hardtail huck bikes don't count.....?

For Johnny's application. Still pretty Exxy second hand, and pretty rare. Yes strong, but wouldn't think strong enough in the head tube for a huge fork. Where as the old beaters were built for the abuse more and definitely stronger where it counted. Mine has gussets just about everywhere they could fit them.

 

[Ideate]

I did think of the STP as well, only thing is that I've never actually spoken to anyone that's had long travel forks on one and thrown it down some DH trails for a goodly amount of time. No doubt it's occurred many times, I just want to actually hear from some one who definitely has that experience.

The very first 26" bike I built from BMX was an STP with a Fox 36 Van 180mm up front. I loved that fork, it was so plush. To be honest, it wasn't that bad but I got scare mongered into thinking my head tube would snap off which was a fair call considering how slack and upright it put the bike. Having said that, I enjoyed riding it immensely but can't comment on the longevity of such a setup.

This year I built a Dartmoor Hornet (which I think I'm selling) with the same idea in mind of having a rigid "gravity/DH" bike. I never tried a 180mm fork up front but my Metrics were pretty high with a similar crown height as my Dorados even in 160mm mode so I dare say a 180mm fork would be doable in a Hornet.

 

[jarrod839]

Theres a nicolai mtbmx on vic mtb buy sell swap on Facebook for sale $650 pretty nice build and condition.

Can't get a link to work though.

 

[FoxRidersCo]

Theres a nicolai mtbmx on vic mtb buy sell swap on Facebook for sale $650 pretty nice build and condition.

Can't get a link to work though.

The BMXTB is a 4X/DJ frame rated for 100-120mm travel suspension max

The Hucker/DH Nicolai frame is called the 2MXTB and looks like this

 

[johnny]

^^^ Which I've ridden a few runs on Thredbo DH and greatly enjoyed.