Little Things You Hate

bardynt

Back in his day.....
My wife is a Primary teacher, teaching prep. Leaves at 8, rarely home by 6 and the school is 10 minutes away. She has to do yard duty at recess and lunch more often then not. Personal development after school one night every week, with a staff meeting another night every two weeks. She would have a pupil free day once a term at most and report writing twice a year, which is done in personal time, takes at least 30 to 40 hours conservatively. Add in parent teacher interviews etc, and she's putting in well over 50 hours a week.

All that for what amounts to a modest salary. With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.
ok well mayabe were you live but the schools i have been too there is some dedicated teachers that are till late but alot are gone early.
 

bardynt

Back in his day.....
Point out entitlements all you like but they don't translate to the real world workplace.

Also, the majority have to re-apply for their job every year. Would you like that sort security?
i dont know what world you live in but most jobs you have to re apply for the job , its called a contract , most people are on them , unless you are one of very few these days are pemanent that dont have to apply for there job.

i think like pointed out there perks of being a teachers out way it.
 
Last edited:

bardynt

Back in his day.....
Not having crack.. just pointing out some of current teacher entitlements for vic gov;

4 weeks A/L
No requirment to be at school during student vacation 12 weeks
All Public holidays
4 student free pupil days
Time off in leiu for parent teacher interviews
7 hour work day
2 hours of meeting per week

Seems like a fair trade for the longer hours/weeks teachers work when students are in..
Correct me if the above isn't factual..
Have a few friends that are teachers, they say it's hard/lowish pay but the entitlements make up for it.
i think this is valid point
 

bardynt

Back in his day.....
I'm the principal of Canley Vale Public School in South Western Sydney. 980 students, 97% of whom are from non English speaking backgrounds, 110 staff. Feel free to drop me a line and I'll gladly arrange for you to spend a day with one of our staff so as to provide an opportunity for you to test the validity of your assertions ; in the interests of objectivity I'll even refrain from showing them your post - if there's a murder onsite the paperwork might involve me working beyond 3:00pm and we can't have that now, can we....
lol we cant have that working past 3pm

Not having crack.. just pointing out some of current teacher entitlements for vic gov;

4 weeks A/L
No requirment to be at school during student vacation 12 weeks
All Public holidays
4 student free pupil days
Time off in leiu for parent teacher interviews
7 hour work day
2 hours of meeting per week

Seems like a fair trade for the longer hours/weeks teachers work when students are in..
Correct me if the above isn't factual..
Have a few friends that are teachers, they say it's hard/lowish pay but the entitlements make up for it.

like it pointed out before def alot of perks three times the amount of holiday everyone else gets

Also if youre saying its 8-5 pm a job welcome to the real world . Alot of people do overtime and dont get paid for it, Also alot of people will do 8-10 hours a day.
 
Last edited:

mtb1611

Seymour
lol we cant have that working past 3pm

Not having crack.. just pointing out some of current teacher entitlements for vic gov;

4 weeks A/L
No requirment to be at school during student vacation 12 weeks
All Public holidays
4 student free pupil days
Time off in leiu for parent teacher interviews
7 hour work day
2 hours of meeting per week

Seems like a fair trade for the longer hours/weeks teachers work when students are in..
Correct me if the above isn't factual..
Have a few friends that are teachers, they say it's hard/lowish pay but the entitlements make up for it.

like it pointed out before def alot of perks three times the amount of holiday everyone else gets

Also if youre saying its 8-5 pm a job welcome to the real world . Alot of people do overtime and dont get paid for it, Also alot of people will do 8-10 hours a day.
I'll quite happily correct you on the above, which aren't factual. These are not entitlements, they are working conditions and you're ignorance of the difference is evident. Whilst I can;t speak for the Victorian conditions, NSW's are similar.

Public Holidays: teachers are generally members of the public, therefore they're entitled to those holidays; many of which actually fall during school holiday periods.
Pupil Free Days: these are actually called Staff Development Days and focus on professional learning for staff as well as the analysis of assessment data that is used to inform the direction of teaching and learning programs
Parent/Teacher Interviews: there is no time off in lieu - in fact in NSW there is no provision for time off in lieu for any reason. Parent/teacher interviews are regularly conducted from 7:30am until 8:00pm so as to allow those parents with different working hours the opportunity to discuss their child's progress and areas of need.
7 Hour Work Day: what are you basing this on? The fact that students are at school from 8:30am - 3:00pm is not an indication that teacher working hours are restricted to this. When are planning, marking, and programming conducted? When are meetings conducted? When are camps and extra-curricular events organised? During class time? No. On weekends, on weeknights, during school holidays.
Meetings: 2 hours? Are you plucking these numbers out of the sky? Both my staff and I would be stoked to only spend 2 hours per week in meetings!
The Real World: I'd suggest that someone so willing to crap on about the "facts" of a job they're not qualified to perform and have no experience in, is ill-informed to lecture others about the real world.

I own a house, doesn't make me a builder. I own a car, doesn't make me a mechanic. I own a computer, doesn't make me an IT guru. But everyone with reproductive organs is an expert on educational management!
 

Knuckles

Lives under a bridge
I too share your pain. Pretty thankless task for them, though now holidays are on yet again I'm not feeling so sympathetic. Kind of sucks when her and the kids are on holidays and I'm heading off to work.
Hollidays rock, shortens my day by a minimum of 2 hours. No lunches to make, no one but myself to get ready in the morning. And now the wife is out of the classroom and doing maths recovery, the psychotic levels don't go all the way to 11 twice a year anymore,and hover around a nice manageable 10 all year round instead.
 

Kerplunk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I'll quite happily correct you on the above, which aren't factual. These are not entitlements, they are working conditions and you're ignorance of the difference is evident. Whilst I can;t speak for the Victorian conditions, NSW's are similar.

Public Holidays: teachers are generally members of the public, therefore they're entitled to those holidays; many of which actually fall during school holiday periods.
Pupil Free Days: these are actually called Staff Development Days and focus on professional learning for staff as well as the analysis of assessment data that is used to inform the direction of teaching and learning programs
Parent/Teacher Interviews: there is no time off in lieu - in fact in NSW there is no provision for time off in lieu for any reason. Parent/teacher interviews are regularly conducted from 7:30am until 8:00pm so as to allow those parents with different working hours the opportunity to discuss their child's progress and areas of need.
7 Hour Work Day: what are you basing this on? The fact that students are at school from 8:30am - 3:00pm is not an indication that teacher working hours are restricted to this. When are planning, marking, and programming conducted? When are meetings conducted? When are camps and extra-curricular events organised? During class time? No. On weekends, on weeknights, during school holidays.
Meetings: 2 hours? Are you plucking these numbers out of the sky? Both my staff and I would be stoked to only spend 2 hours per week in meetings!
The Real World: I'd suggest that someone so willing to crap on about the "facts" of a job they're not qualified to perform and have no experience in, is ill-informed to lecture others about the real world.

I own a house, doesn't make me a builder. I own a car, doesn't make me a mechanic. I own a computer, doesn't make me an IT guru. But everyone with reproductive organs is an expert on educational management!

Agree entitlements is technically the right term, no need to be snappy...

A simple search found the employment conditions for vic, so no mate I am not plucking numbers out of thin air;
Quotes from;
http://www.education.vic.gov.au/hrweb/employcond/Pages/wrkhrsTS.aspx

Public Holidays- The public service don't work any of them correct, the majority of other industries work some if not all of them. Ask anyone in retail ,services, health.

Parent/Teacher Interviews: "Where attendance at a parent-teacher report meeting results in a teacherÂ’s attendance in that week exceeding 38 hours, that teacher will be granted time-in-lieu for the hours in excess of 38"

Pupil Free Days: Thanks for the correction.

7 Hour Work Day: "Unless otherwise agreed between the principal and a teacher, a teacher will be in attendance for a minimum of seven hours daily commencing no less than ten minutes before the morning pupil instructional session."

"When are camps and extra-curricular events organised? During class time? No. On weekends, on weeknights, during school holidays." - What are 8 weeks leave on top of the standard 4 weeks a year for? Teachers have explained to me it is essentially time in lieu for extra hours during term and for planning. Isn't there planning days during school hours as well?

2 hour meetings; "Unless otherwise agreed through the consultative arrangements, a schedule of meetings will be drawn up for the school year, using the consultative arrangements, which may require teachers to attend meetings of up to two hours per week in addition to the minimum of seven hours daily attendance, provided that where the meeting is a staff meeting it will be held adjacent to the normal school day and normally will be no longer than one hour."

So, I get it that the above is the minimum requirement and a lot of teachers do more than the minimum. A lot of other industries have significantly 'tougher' min conditions and I think that is where a few people like bardynt get annoyed.

Dunno whether your comments are directed at me or bardynt but where exactly did I tell you how to do your job?
 
Last edited:

Calvin27

Eats Squid
I don't buy this teachers have it tough thing. Firstly I will agree they should be paid more and more importantly valued more.

However the whole working long hours is a joke imo. I have a few mates and two sister in laws who are teachers. Sure the first year or so is tougher but after that their hours are pretty basic. Start at 8, finish at 4. Maybe 2 hours of home work on top and the odd staying back after school for interviews or concerts etc in which they get time in lieu.

Compared to the basic life of a corporate worker it's not that much different. Just the kids are older but still the same level of stupid.
 

Knuckles

Lives under a bridge
Lol, surely you've got doctorates in your field too, right?
Shit tons. Hence the disdain. I actually have an a bloke with a BSc. in environmental science working with me, who has, of all things a pHD in Food Service Management. My cousin is a lecturer in environmental science at Ballarat uni, her pHD is in tree planting methods. Seriously, the one I got in my wheeties box is just as legit.
 

bardynt

Back in his day.....
I'll quite happily correct you on the above, which aren't factual. These are not entitlements, they are working conditions and you're ignorance of the difference is evident. Whilst I can;t speak for the Victorian conditions, NSW's are similar.

Public Holidays: teachers are generally members of the public, therefore they're entitled to those holidays; many of which actually fall during school holiday periods.
Pupil Free Days: these are actually called Staff Development Days and focus on professional learning for staff as well as the analysis of assessment data that is used to inform the direction of teaching and learning programs
Parent/Teacher Interviews: there is no time off in lieu - in fact in NSW there is no provision for time off in lieu for any reason. Parent/teacher interviews are regularly conducted from 7:30am until 8:00pm so as to allow those parents with different working hours the opportunity to discuss their child's progress and areas of need.
7 Hour Work Day: what are you basing this on? The fact that students are at school from 8:30am - 3:00pm is not an indication that teacher working hours are restricted to this. When are planning, marking, and programming conducted? When are meetings conducted? When are camps and extra-curricular events organised? During class time? No. On weekends, on weeknights, during school holidays.
Meetings: 2 hours? Are you plucking these numbers out of the sky? Both my staff and I would be stoked to only spend 2 hours per week in meetings!
The Real World: I'd suggest that someone so willing to crap on about the "facts" of a job they're not qualified to perform and have no experience in, is ill-informed to lecture others about the real world.

I own a house, doesn't make me a builder. I own a car, doesn't make me a mechanic. I own a computer, doesn't make me an IT guru. But everyone with reproductive organs is an expert on educational management!
(Public Holidays: teachers are generally members of the public, therefore they're entitled to those holidays; many of which actually fall during school holiday periods. )

eg so who do you think works on public holidays while youre saying that you shouldnt cause if falls on the school holidays. So does that mean that that no teacher is required to work in the school holidays ?

Also alot of the public are on casual contracts dont get paid for public holidays , alot of companies do this these days so they can get away with out paying holidays

(Pupil Free Days: these are actually called Staff Development Days and focus on professional learning for staff as well as the analysis of assessment data that is used to inform the direction of teaching and learning programs)

So youre saying that pupil free days have to be during the term causing a affect of everyone else going shit i forogt teachers have no students for the day causing everyone else having to have sick day off or one day of there leave to look after kids while they do there profesional day during the term when most think why cant it be done the day before a term starts.

(7 Hour Work Day: what are you basing this on? The fact that students are at school from 8:30am - 3:00pm is not an indication that teacher working hours are restricted to this. When are planning, marking, and programming conducted? When are meetings conducted? When are camps and extra-curricular events organised? During class time? No. On weekends, on weeknights, during school holidays.
Meetings: 2 hours? Are you plucking these numbers out of the sky? Both my staff and I would be stoked to only spend 2 hours per week in meetings! )

So youre saying 830 am to 330 pm is seven hour wokring day , i consider it a six hour working day cause dont have lunch included in the pay. Also alot of places people rotate which amount of time off ,having to answer calls, respond to a emergency. Eg like not all teachers do yard duty and have a break.

So if i follow youre logic 8am to 5pm is a 9 hour day but in reality is realy only a paid 8 hour day like the rest of have to do.


(Meetings: 2 hours? Are you plucking these numbers out of the sky? Both my staff and I would be stoked to only spend 2 hours per week in meetings!


Well i wonder if you think that alot of other places have meetings outside of work hours and deal with kids.

(The Real World: I'd suggest that someone so willing to crap on about the "facts" of a job they're not qualified to perform and have no experience in, is ill-informed to lecture others about the real world.

I own a house, doesn't make me a builder. I own a car, doesn't make me a mechanic. I own a computer, doesn't make me an IT guru. But everyone with reproductive organs is an expert on educational management!)


So youre saying cause youre teacher youre a expert at the education system since youre following youre logic

With regards to no exp get youre facts right i had to do qualifcations to teach a lesson, had to do lesson plans, meetings , My qualication was slightly diffetent to yours but still had to do one .

I think mayabe if you worked 12 hours day with no flexibility with being able to leave work for any reason and had to work public holidays and also did night shifts then i might go you work hard.
 

johnny

I'll tells ya!
Staff member
Shit tons. Hence the disdain. I actually have an a bloke with a BSc. in environmental science working with me, who has, of all things a pHD in Food Service Management. My cousin is a lecturer in environmental science at Ballarat uni, her pHD is in tree planting methods. Seriously, the one I got in my wheeties box is just as legit.
Your cousin's PhD sounds legit and relevant, is the problem with the qual or the person?

I think your perception is simplistic and misunderstands a few things. Take for example my potential PhD gig, I'm interested in Indo-Pacific strategic relations and what the Cold War might tell us about future outcomes. But you can't do a PhD on such a massive issue because it won't work and I have to find an argument that hasn't already been made. So I will have to focus on a particular aspect of this issue, which might be Chinese decision making on Second Artillery placements from 1969-1985. May sound ridiculous to folk outside of the field and it may actually well be. But given the kind of research that has to be done I'll walk away with a deep knowledge of Sino-Russo-US-Indian strategic relations, nuclear capabilities, technological rates of advancement, strategic cultures....., etc.

Looking at the title or scope of the PhD study only misunderstands the dealio. Sure, some are fucking ridiculous (anything to do with art, at least 75% of anything to do with sociology, at least anything to do with 100% of gender studies and pretty much anything that I'm not interested in or not smrat enough to understand) but the title of the gig isn't where the meat is at and just the proven ability to research, create an argument and communicate it is something in and of itself. That also doesn't defend the standard of some that are awarded, the end prod is only as good as its guidance and marking.

Screw you, my PhD will change the world and I will be more revered in my field than whatshername and that other guy who did that thing!!
 

droenn

Fat Man's XC President
This is my favourite explanation of a PhD: https://www.businessinsider.com.au/the-illustrated-guide-to-a-phd-2012-3

The topic and scope of a PhD really only matters to complete your thesis, which is only ever read by perhaps 5 people.

Point of it is to think critically and gain research, synthesis and communication skills through advancing knowledge of a very tiny area, independently.

You can then of course apply those skills more broadly, but at the same time, you're now a world expert for a tiny, unique piece of knowledge.
 

moorey

call me Mia
My wife is a Primary teacher, teaching prep. Leaves at 8, rarely home by 6 and the school is 10 minutes away. She has to do yard duty at recess and lunch more often then not. Personal development after school one night every week, with a staff meeting another night every two weeks. She would have a pupil free day once a term at most and report writing twice a year, which is done in personal time, takes at least 30 to 40 hours conservatively. Add in parent teacher interviews etc, and she's putting in well over 50 hours a week.

All that for what amounts to a modest salary. With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about.
The job these days isn't what it used to be. None of this walk in, teach, walk out deal. They are mentors, coaches, well being officers, de facto parents...just to start. My kids teachers are there most of the holidays, and most evenings late....for a modest wage as you say, and very little respect from most parents or the community.
I don't 'teach' much any more, and an pretty lucky. My job is flexible, and when I walk out the door, work ends 98% of the time. I unfortunately carry a lot of transfered trauma, but am lucky enough to be able to let it go most of the time.
I couldn't be a classroom teacher any more, but have absolute respect and awe for those doing it.
 

moorey

call me Mia
(Public Holidays: teachers are generally members of the public, therefore they're entitled to those holidays; many of which actually fall during school holiday periods. )

eg so who do you think works on public holidays while youre saying that you shouldnt cause if falls on the school holidays. So does that mean that that no teacher is required to work in the school holidays ?

Also alot of the public are on casual contracts dont get paid for public holidays , alot of companies do this these days so they can get away with out paying holidays

(Pupil Free Days: these are actually called Staff Development Days and focus on professional learning for staff as well as the analysis of assessment data that is used to inform the direction of teaching and learning programs)

So youre saying that pupil free days have to be during the term causing a affect of everyone else going shit i forogt teachers have no students for the day causing everyone else having to have sick day off or one day of there leave to look after kids while they do there profesional day during the term when most think why cant it be done the day before a term starts.

(7 Hour Work Day: what are you basing this on? The fact that students are at school from 8:30am - 3:00pm is not an indication that teacher working hours are restricted to this. When are planning, marking, and programming conducted? When are meetings conducted? When are camps and extra-curricular events organised? During class time? No. On weekends, on weeknights, during school holidays.
Meetings: 2 hours? Are you plucking these numbers out of the sky? Both my staff and I would be stoked to only spend 2 hours per week in meetings! )

So youre saying 830 am to 330 pm is seven hour wokring day , i consider it a six hour working day cause dont have lunch included in the pay. Also alot of places people rotate which amount of time off ,having to answer calls, respond to a emergency. Eg like not all teachers do yard duty and have a break.

So if i follow youre logic 8am to 5pm is a 9 hour day but in reality is realy only a paid 8 hour day like the rest of have to do.


(Meetings: 2 hours? Are you plucking these numbers out of the sky? Both my staff and I would be stoked to only spend 2 hours per week in meetings!


Well i wonder if you think that alot of other places have meetings outside of work hours and deal with kids.

(The Real World: I'd suggest that someone so willing to crap on about the "facts" of a job they're not qualified to perform and have no experience in, is ill-informed to lecture others about the real world.

I own a house, doesn't make me a builder. I own a car, doesn't make me a mechanic. I own a computer, doesn't make me an IT guru. But everyone with reproductive organs is an expert on educational management!)


So youre saying cause youre teacher youre a expert at the education system since youre following youre logic

With regards to no exp get youre facts right i had to do qualifcations to teach a lesson, had to do lesson plans, meetings , My qualication was slightly diffetent to yours but still had to do one .

I think mayabe if you worked 12 hours day with no flexibility with being able to leave work for any reason and had to work public holidays and also did night shifts then i might go you work hard.
Reading this made my brain hurt. You either had a bad teacher, or wagged most English classes. :behindsofa:
 

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
Are you saying that there are good teachers and bad teachers? Like in all the other occupations that exist? I'm not swallowing that shit. It would mean there are good people and bad people...I'm not prepared to accept the risk that I might be a bad person.
 

droenn

Fat Man's XC President
Are you saying that there are good teachers and bad teachers? Like in all the other occupations that exist? I'm not swallowing that shit. It would mean there are good people and bad people...I'm not prepared to accept the risk that I might be a bad person.
Pretty sure its "yobs" and "wankers" and you've gotta pick one.

So whatareya?
 

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
Pretty sure its "yobs" and "wankers" and you've gotta pick one.

So whatareya?
What am I? I am loving the time reference! In retort I offer:

You know the latest fashion, you know the latest brand, you know you bore me stupid...with your growing economic plans.
 
Top