E-Bike Batteries

Minlak

Minlak

custom titis
So a friend of mine has a Specialized E-Bike and has had it for maybe 3mths and now she has a battery issue. Some googling suggests her issue is not exactly uncommon but as usual going through warranty with Specialized is like pulling teeth and last correspondence with them suggests she may have to buy a new battery already.
So that got me thinking about the batteries in general. They are still essentially lithium ion tech? And a lot of laptop manufactures won’t replace the batteries unless they fail. They state reduced battery life is the norm for these batteries as they will decay as part of their normal life span. I am wondering what the go will be with E-Bikes in the future? Until new battery tech becomes available is it just going to be built into the price to replace them under warranty or will you have to buy new?
 
beeb

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
If Specialized don't come to the party - I would be chasing up Australian consumer law in regards to a product being "fit for purpose". I can't see a battery failing within that time frame (especially on a bike however expensive it was) being considered as acceptable.

Generally speaking, battery capacity reduction can happen with age or progressively through discharge/recharging cycles, but unless she's riding the bike daily (and even then!) I can't see how it could get to the point of being unserviceable/requiring replacement so soon.

I would also be asking Specialized how many discharge/recharge cycles their batteries are rated for, and compare that to real-world use.
 
ozzybmx

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
They are ~$1000 to replace, this will probably be a big issue of the e-future.

With ebikes, they call it 'E-Bike optimised' and add some weight to make it stronger as weight doesn't matter so much, so frame cracking may not be an issue... but electrics and battery issues will enormous.
 
FatMuz

FatMuz

Likes Dirt
beeb said:
I would also be asking Specialized how many discharge/recharge cycles their batteries are rated for, and compare that to real-world use.
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I seem to recall it being about 700 or more charge cycles... so charge once a day for at least a couple of years
 
Minlak

Minlak

custom titis
I’m not so worried about the warranty or this particular case it will get sorted by ACCC or something if it has too

Was more wanting a discussion around the batteries in general as I see these as the biggest fail point for most of the bikes.

I am also interested in the real life longevity with water ingression even though the motor and battery are meant to be sealed.
 
Comic Book Guy

Comic Book Guy

Likes Bikes and Dirt
According to this thread at electric bike review they are just 18650 battery packs like they have in laptops: https://electricbikereview.com/foru...ries-for-2013-2016-turbo-non-levo-vado.13361/
And, this thread about repacking the battery pack (especially John E's post): https://electricbikereview.com/forum/threads/repacking-a-turbo-battery.14046/
ozzybmx said:
They are ~$1000 to replace, this will probably be a big issue of the e-future.
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F' me, a $1000. They have got to be kidding themselves.

CBG.
 
Dales Cannon

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
I was going to guess they were just multiple sets of common batteries stacked in a shrubery. Bit like the Pious. Market out there for diagnosis and replacement of faulty cells!
 
M

mas2

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Anyone know what happens to the batteries after they die? This is one of my big issues with them becoming popular.
 
Comic Book Guy

Comic Book Guy

Likes Bikes and Dirt
They should be able to be recycled just like phone/laptop batteries.

In the past I have recovered perfectly good 18650 batteries from laptops. They still work well. Did have one close call. Lets just say they do get very hot when accidentally compressed.
 
F

Flint

Likes Dirt
I doubt anyone will be repacking theses batteries. They are spot welded in and even removing a single faulty cell will be next to impossible (at a cost effective price).

I looked into the cost of building a pack and it would be around $400 (retail not wholesale) for quality cells and a BMS (Battery Management System), so the markup on these is high, standard in the bike industry I guess.

40 of these: "Panasonic NCR18650GA 3500mAh Li-Ion Battery" at around $10 each or less. The BMS is pretty cheap at around $20.

I bought a Commencal Meta Power for a few reasons, one of them being that it uses the generic Shimano battery, as per the link below, not a custom job like most of the other brands. The battery I use should be readily available from most stores for a cheaper price than a $pecialized or Giant battery. There is also the e6000 series battery that I am 90% sure will be compatible with my bike, just less capacity, but still more than the Focus bikes. On a side note I can buy a Polygon commuter bike with an e6000 battery for $2,400!!

They say the battery is good for 1000 charges but realistically probably 600 to 700 at a stretch?

I do worry about the whole "resale" debate though, no one is going to buy an e-bike with no battery or an old battery that is at half capacity. And dropping $800 to $1000 on a new battery just so you can sell your bike would leave a pretty bad taste in your mouth. So you need to either hang onto these for a long time or sell them after a year.

Inside: https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/questions/56479/shimano-steps-e8000-battery-wont-charge

Cheers
 
Calvin27

Calvin27

Eats Squid
Minlak said:
I’m not so worried about the warranty or this particular case it will get sorted by ACCC or something if it has too

Was more wanting a discussion around the batteries in general as I see these as the biggest fail point for most of the bikes.

I am also interested in the real life longevity with water ingression even though the motor and battery are meant to be sealed.
Click to expand...
This is why I built my own ebike rather than build one. Bike specific batteries are great, but just like why we hate new 'standards' the real cost is when you need to replace stuff. For reference a quality 17Ah(36V) battery cost me $500.

Most ebike batteries are in fact just a bunch of 18650s stuck together.
 
Comic Book Guy

Comic Book Guy

Likes Bikes and Dirt
stirk said:
Did you sit on the battery?
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I know I am a fat bastard but NO I didn't sit on it.:D

I had a laptop battery pack sitting in my bench vise as I was gently prying it open. Got distracted and went inside the house. Came back and snugged the vise up without even thinking about it. A small amount of smoke alerted me to my mistake and I quickly removed the by now very warm battery from the vise and took it outside in case it went up. Luckily only two cells got compressed so it was just a close call not a full on fire.

I know someone who works in a warehouse that always has a store of various Li batteries. One fell onto the floor and was run over by a forklift and this resulted in a real fire. Always be careful when handling these types of batteries.

CBG.
 
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petertronica

petertronica

Likes Dirt
I have a specialized camber that I converted to an ebike to commute to work on a couple of years ago.
It's sitting on 10,345km right now. It's a 25km commute each way and I only recharge it at home. (Don't use it everyday). I use almost all of the battery in that 50km round trip.
I'd estimate that the battery has only lost maybe 5% of its capacity in that time - in other words, barely noticeable. Its got samsung 18650 cells, cost $800 new. I think it's definitely worth getting a better known brand, seems to have paid off for me.
 
Minlak

Minlak

custom titis
So update on this. The battery was tested and is fine it is the display panel lights that have an issue. They also flashed the bike and battery with new software to reduce heat. I assume this means they reduced the power out out of both to keep it cooler.
So apparently the lights are cosmetics and non warranty but battery is fine.
Just as an aside to this we regularly ride together and she has been using the bike on eco mode so she still pedals and we have destroyed her every time. The average lately would be 30km rides. I have been convincing her to ride on trail mode so she gets more assist and has been happier. She is finally getting over the feelings of failure she had for riding an e-bike. I hope more people embrace it as we ride twice the distance and twice as often as we used to. She even came out for another run at Tewantin in the weekend where normally I would have had to go alone.
 
Minlak

Minlak

custom titis
Just an FYI
You all do know Li-ion batteries will kill you if you breathe in the gasses they generate when failing explosively? You need to evacuate that shit ASAP don’t go trying to move them and save stuff GTFO
 
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