The election thread - Two middle-late aged white men trying to be blokey and convincing..., same old shit, FFS.

[steve jobs' pancreas]

she isn't paying the tax, the company did (but I think I know what you mean)

Edit: I have no issue with low income earners being paid a refund for "unused" franking credits, there just needs to be a mechanism to ensure it only applys to those that really need it.

 

[Freediver]

I see this more as a problem with not assessing/taxing super income properly.

Here's another scenario to consider. Uni student wants an investment. Buys some BHP shares. Works in cafe. Earns $10k a year. Pays no tax on cafe wages (below tax free threshold) but has actually had to pay 30% on any dividends which ia like being taxed in the 30% bracket. That's also unfair.

How does a uni student on 10k buy shares? A uni student on 10 k has trouble finding the money for a train to classes.

 

[johnny]

Good as always, better than normal:

Yeah, except that when he discusses defence spending he is just making shit up.

 

[Elbo]

I've really mellowed out on politics. I find myself taking issue with most parties stances and I believe it's almost impossible to make an informed vote when the parties don't stay true to their word. At the end of the day I really just want to be left alone by government. I would like to see a system where each person has control over how their taxes are divided up. Seeing as how money talks, we could do away with parliament and deal directly with the tax office to divvy up our taxes the way we want them spent. I elect zero dollars towards politicians pensions.

 

[Haakon]

Who out there is a Gen X / Millennial waiting for that bonanza of an inheritance!

I wish... Hippy parents. I'm already supporting them, Mum gets a new car every few years and I cover the big bills on it. They live remotely, so the car is critical. In time I expect I'll have to buy a flat in town and move them in.

Must by nice to have the family financial safety net, allow you to take risks early on in your career. Some people spend the early years of a career in defensive mode keeping food on the table, clearing education debts and proritising safe regular paycheques - "having a go" is a luxury for most people (ie LNP voters with wealthy parents to bail them out if need be).

 

[rangersac]

I see this more as a problem with not assessing/taxing super income properly.

Here's another scenario to consider. Uni student wants an investment. Buys some BHP shares. Works in cafe. Earns $10k a year. Pays no tax on cafe wages (below tax free threshold) but has actually had to pay 30% on any dividends which ia like being taxed in the 30% bracket. That's also unfair.

Why is investing in shares seen as some sacred right that should be rewarded? No other investment gives a cash refund once tax liabilities are eliminated.

 

[DeBloot]

I see this more as a problem with not assessing/taxing super income properly.

Here's another scenario to consider. Uni student wants an investment. Buys some BHP shares. Works in cafe. Earns $10k a year. Pays no tax on cafe wages (below tax free threshold) but has actually had to pay 30% on any dividends which ia like being taxed in the 30% bracket. That's also unfair.

The students shares are franked so BHP has paid the tax on his behalf
I don't see that as unfair - a company pays 30% tax on its earnings
It's not an out of pocket expense for the student - the student pays no tax and receives no cash refund

As mentioned above, the cash back for non tax payers was brought in by Howard, and Shorten is proposing we go back to the way it was
That is, if you have no taxable income, you don't receive cash back

 

[Dales Cannon]

Why is investing in shares seen as some sacred right that should be rewarded? No other investment gives a cash refund once tax liabilities are eliminated.

I see this more as a problem with not assessing/taxing super income properly.
Here's another scenario to consider. Uni student wants an investment. Buys some BHP shares. Works in cafe. Earns $10k a year. Pays no tax on cafe wages (below tax free threshold) but has actually had to pay 30% on any dividends which ia like being taxed in the 30% bracket. That's also unfair.

How does a uni student on 10k buy shares? A uni student on 10 k has trouble finding the money for a train to classes.

My son is a uni student and has shares. About $15k worth now. If the dividends are franked then no need to pay tax on the dividend. If not franked then they are income in the usual sense and tax thresholds apply. It is the rebate part that is wonky and I agree should go and probably never have been implemented. I will pay very little tax for this fy. How to get some imputation rebates before the rug is pulled up and burnt (joke).

 

[Calvin27]

Must by nice to have the family financial safety net, allow you to take risks early on in your career. Some people spend the early years of a career in defensive mode keeping food on the table, clearing education debts and proritising safe regular paycheques - "having a go" is a luxury for most people (ie LNP voters with wealthy parents to bail them out if need be).

This is the thing a lot of hard liberals miss. Trust fund kid gets a pat on the back and has a second maybe third crack everyone else gets one shot and if they don't make it, there goes their future.

 

[steve jobs' pancreas]

Why is investing in shares seen as some sacred right that should be rewarded? No other investment gives a cash refund once tax liabilities are eliminated.

for low income earners that "need" the extra dollars perhaps it would be more equitable to remove the franking credit refund and bump up the pension, that way people who are on low incomes and have no assets that haven't built up a share portfolio can benefit as well

 

[Scotty T]

My son is a uni student and has shares

I'm guessing he lives at home and you don't charge him full market rent and expenses? Many people in your situation would prefer to keep the free gift because some shit about having paid taxes. But his mates who are stuggling to make it to uni everyday surely need it more.

 

[hifiandmtb]

Yeah, except that when he discusses defence spending he is just making shit up.

Which part?

Defence Budget 2019: a lot of dollars to spend - Australian Defence Magazine

The Defence community’s biggest challenge in answering the call of the Budget this year will literally be getting the money out the door and into programs.

www.australiandefence.com.au

 

[johnny]

Which part?

Defence Budget 2019: a lot of dollars to spend - Australian Defence Magazine

The Defence community’s biggest challenge in answering the call of the Budget this year will literally be getting the money out the door and into programs.

www.australiandefence.com.au

The part that it's about defending Australia against invasion from China "Which it can't do anyway".

Not saying that the figures are wrong but the justification for the spending he gives is his fantasy and not based on anything in the Defence White Paper(s). Discusion can be had whether it was money well spent and if the stated threats are under/overstated but saying that it's all about invasion by China, and then implying that it's all wasted spending because China is incapable of invading us anyway is dishonest and doesn't represent the reality of the situation.

 

[hifiandmtb]

There has to be some ironic leeway in his content...just like most peeps give a “view” on facts.

That (small) part of what has had to say was funny.

 

[DeBloot]

This is the thing a lot of hard liberals miss. Trust fund kid gets a pat on the back and has a second maybe third crack everyone else gets one shot and if they don't make it, there goes their future.

Their own privilege blinds them to the plight of the not so fortunate.
Those who have not had such privilege are categorised as lazy or inept.
Or the old classic of the menials benefiting from trickle down economics.

I've seen it from both sides - having that privilege allows you to take more risk/ reward opportunities
I went to a private school and am employed by a mega wealthy school friend.
He constantly complains about how much tax he pays, but runs the majority of his personal expenses through his company.

I'm defacto with a housing commission lass from Green Valley (where that fuckwit disappointment Latham comes from)
Dad was a truckie and Mum worked at Armaguard. They now struggle to make ends meet on the pension.
They are both from tough upbringings and have had no opportunities given to them - in fact the opposite
These people need to be supported far more than my mate who holidays overseas regularly and updates his car every 3 years.
Or me for that matter who did receive a relatively small but grateful inheritance that took a lot of pressure off.

 

[pink poodle]

There has to be some ironic leeway in his content...just like most peeps give a “view” on facts.

That (small) part of what has had to say was funny.

One might suggest that @johnny may benefit from viewing a few more of this "creators" videos? This would probably be his most coherent effort to date...so a little creative license may be granted.

 

[Dales Cannon]

I'm guessing he lives at home and you don't charge him full market rent and expenses? Many people in your situation would prefer to keep the free gift because some shit about having paid taxes. But his mates who are stuggling to make it to uni everyday surely need it more.

Yes he lives at home. None of my kids pay board while a student. He gets no austudy or whatever it is called and works one to two days a week. Anyone who is a struggling student as you put it is unlikely to invest money anywhere. I went to state schools and I was a university student and my parents had no spare cash. I lived away from home from 16 years of age and I know what it is like to eat breakfast cereal twice a day and skip lunches for months on end while a student so I had enough money to pay for a share house room. I didnt have any shares either.

 

[rangersac]

for low income earners that "need" the extra dollars perhaps it would be more equitable to remove the franking credit refund and bump up the pension, that way people who are on low incomes and have no assets that haven't built up a share portfolio can benefit as well

The current Labour policy reads:

The Pensioner Guarantee means pensioners and allowance recipients will be protected from the abolition of cash refunds for excess dividend imputation credits when the policy commences in July 2019. Self-managed superannuation funds with at least one pensioner or allowance recipient before 28 March 2018 will also be exempt from the changes.

I agree with you though that a pension bump would be more equitable, and no doubt less prone to some sneaky manipulation

 

[Scotty T]

I didnt have any shares either.

Of course you didn't. I bet fresh food would have been nice though, and in that scenario I think it's pretty fair to redirect a gift from the government going to a kid who already gets fresh food for free.

 

[johnny]

There has to be some ironic leeway in his content...just like most peeps give a “view” on facts.

That (small) part of what has had to say was funny.

Not wanting to ignore the entertainment value and poetic liscence this clip provides and deserves - and the fact that it's a youtube clip.

However, the fundamental argument of the whole rant is that the military spending is a political ploy for a desparate govt and is being spent on flawed items for flawed reasons instead of being spent on a real threat, such as climate change. That's not a small part, it's the first 4 mins of the clip (minus the obvious comedy cut outs). And I'm not going to argue the call on this govt being desparate and politicising anything it can get its hands on, especially in the national security space. (got Jerusalem Embassy?)

The premise of his argument, that the massive defence spending is wasted because the enemy is not real and the toys are useless, is simply not true. Nothing wrong with the climate change bit (ironically, it's the militaries in most modern countries that are taking climate change seriously and screaming at govts to do something about it) but saying the military spending is only political and the Defence establsihment doesn't understand the threat is just not true.

Again, I get that this is a youtube clip from a less than serious dude that does political outrage-comedy. However, I think that grants the creators of this kind of material too much leeway. I may a bit sensitised to this given the focus on meme warfare and the influence online material like this had on the 2016 presidential election in the US (and since), but material like this, when it is released in the lead up to a federal election, has an impadt. Concocting mistruths and putting them on social media is not a harmless act.

Worst part is, the crux of his argument, that CC is a priority issue, is undermined by framing it in a false argument around defence spending.