Smashpot or Marzocchi coil conversion

[DMan]

I've read what I can. Just after some first hand experience as I know a few riders here have it fitted. I'm riding a New Rhythm 36 and just can't get the initial harshness worked out. I've played with volume spacers, pressure and rebound and just can't get compliance I want without losing the mid stroke support, etc. So I'm thinking a Smashpot or Marzocchi coil. I want it to absorb those rough braking ruts on berms and chatter over rough services at speed. I'm not a big jumper but do moderate drops. Needs to climb. I know it will be heavier but that doesn't bother me. Am I heading in the right direction? I'm leaning more to the Smashpot for the better range of spring weights and the hydraulic damper. And that the Marzocchi in a rhythm is a one way deal I believe as it scores the inside of the fork leg?

 

[jrewing]

Smashpot is awesome. Improves the fork tremendously. They did underspring recommended rayes on it earlier on, but that might have changed.

 

[creaky]

@DMan
Questions:

1. Have you done a lowers and air spring service on the fork, if it's harsh?
2. Can you upgrade the air spring to a new one with a larger negative chamber volume (ask Cyclinic)
3. Make sure you do the sums on the cost of upgrades versus selling and buy something else.

 

[beeb]

I installed the Marz coil after riding the fork in air-sprung configuration for a while. Sounds like it'll do what you want. Coil feels more traction-ful/supple in the initial stroke, and has good mid-stroke support. Fork is more active now in the first half of the travel now. That is partly also because I went from running a little LSC in air config (maybe 1/8th of the dial wound on) to fully open with coil as the spring now gives all the support I need. Sort of wish I'd installed the Smashpot for the smaller steps between spring rates as I'm fractionally oversprung with the heaviest spring, but suspect the next step down will be much too soft unless I wind a heap of pre-load on (not ideal). I'm personally not fussed about the bottom out feature of the Smashpot though, as with the better midstroke support from the coil the fork doesn't dive/bog down as much and I rarely get near full travel anyway (fork gets bogged down less).

 

[DMan]

Smashpot is awesome. Improves the fork tremendously. They did underspring recommended rayes on it earlier on, but that might have changed.

Cool. I'll check with spring rates

@DMan
Questions:

1. Have you done a lowers and air spring service on the fork, if it's harsh?
2. Can you upgrade the air spring to a new one with a larger negative chamber volume (ask Cyclinic)
3. Make sure you do the sums on the cost of upgrades versus selling and buy something else.

1- I have done a lowers already but the fork has only done less than 10 hours.
2- I could fit a GRIP2 but that's $520 alone. Other than that I'm limited with extras like a Luftkappe as they don't fit a Rhythm. I could go a DSD but I'd have to raise the fork from 140 to 150mm and I don't want to increase the AC as I'm already running Mullet
3- Same same but more fun to look at coil

I installed the Marz coil after riding the fork in air-sprung configuration for a while. Sounds like it'll do what you want. Coil feels more traction-ful/supple in the initial stroke, and has good mid-stroke support. Fork is more active now in the first half of the travel now. That is partly also because I went from running a little LSC in air config (maybe 1/8th of the dial wound on) to fully open with coil as the spring now gives all the support I need. Sort of wish I'd installed the Smashpot for the smaller steps between spring rates as I'm fractionally oversprung with the heaviest spring, but suspect the next step down will be much too soft unless I wind a heap of pre-load on (not ideal). I'm personally not fussed about the bottom out feature of the Smashpot though, as with the better midstroke support from the coil the fork doesn't dive/bog down as much and I rarely get near full travel anyway (fork gets bogged down less).

I sit right in the middle of the Marz coil springs at 78kg kitted so I'm probably ok spring wise. Certainly a cheaper option but I can't pull it out and stick it in another bike apparently like you can with a Smashpot due to the damage I believe.

 

[beeb]

FYI - minimum travel on 29er forks with the Marz kit is 150mm.

 

[DMan]

FYI - minimum travel on 29er forks with the Marz kit is 150mm.

Yep. That's the other problem. As a Mullet I'm presently 12.5mm higher than I was because of the 140mm fork (Came as 150mm). It's whether I want to raise the front by a full inch if I go Marz. With Smashpot I can run it as a 140mm. Still $100 cheaper though to go Marz and new airspring that Smash.

 

[creaky]

1- I have done a lowers already but the fork has only done less than 10 hours.

You have, or haven't done a lowers service?

Sometimes people find that factory lubing can be insufficient (lowers lube) and/or there is a huge amount of grease in the air chamber that blocks the pos/neg chamber balancing port, leading to poor small bump performance.

 

[DMan]

You have, or haven't done a lowers service?

Sometimes people find that factory lubing can be insufficient (lowers lube) and/or there is a huge amount of grease in the air chamber that blocks the pos/neg chamber balancing port, leading to poor small bump performance.

I have done a lowers already. Did one when I got the fork. Yes, I have read that but I didn't notice a lot of grease. But I didn't pull the airshaft out

 

[kten]

Definitely pull the air shaft out for a cleaning and regreasing. That could help a lot.

I'm a fan of the Smashpot and it sounds like it really would achieve what you are wanting with suppleness and mid stroke stoutness. I've never seen a Smashpot damage the inside walls of the fork enough (or at all for that matter) that the air spring couldn't be refitted and used again as an air fork. Does anyone know of any forks that have been damaged by a Smashpot that couldn't be converted back?

 

[creaky]

I have done a lowers already. Did one when I got the fork. Yes, I have read that but I didn't notice a lot of grease. But I didn't pull the airshaft out

If there's a massive chunk of grease on top of the air piston when you remove the air topcap then that's a giveaway.

 

[DMan]

If there's a massive chunk of grease on top of the air piston when you remove the air topcap then that's a giveaway.

Cool. No there wasn't

 

[DMan]

Definitely pull the air shaft out for a cleaning and regreasing. That could help a lot.

I'm a fan of the Smashpot and it sounds like it really would achieve what you are wanting with suppleness and mid stroke stoutness. I've never seen a Smashpot damage the inside walls of the fork enough (or at all for that matter) that the air spring couldn't be refitted and used again as an air fork. Does anyone know of any forks that have been damaged by a Smashpot that couldn't be converted back?

I haven't read it's an issue with Smashpot but I have read it is with a Rhythm fork once you've done the Marz conversion

 

[Oddjob]

The rythms are really good forks. You might need to send the fork off to get the bushings burnished. If you get a smashpot and don't burnish the bushings first you might not get the sensitivity your looking for, despite the weight and expense.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[DMan]

The rythms are really good forks. You might need to send the fork off to get the bushings burnished. If you get a smashpot and don't burnish the bushings first you might not get the sensitivity your looking for, despite the weight and expense.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

I read about that on a thread here. Is that something that a place like Cyclinic would do?

 

[Oddjob]

I read about that on a thread here. Is that something that a place like Cyclinic would do?

Nsdynamics or Mtb suspension centre would be better.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

 

[DMan]

Nsdynamics or Mtb suspension centre would be better.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

It would be NS for the Smashpot. Another plus then

 

[kten]

If there's a massive chunk of grease on top of the air piston when you remove the air topcap then that's a giveaway.

You need to pull the airshaft to check if there is a chunk of grease in the negative chamber. Looking in from above only shows the positive chamber and if there is grease there it just acts like a token in relation to increasing progression, nothing to do with sensitivity.

 

[creaky]

You need to pull the airshaft to check if there is a chunk of grease in the negative chamber. Looking in from above only shows the positive chamber and if there is grease there it just acts like a token in relation to increasing progression, nothing to do with sensitivity.

Agree, it's just a quick way of seeing if there is likely to have been overzealous greasemanship.

I'd be doing a full airspring service personally before spending $600 to $700 bucks at NSD for the smashpot with a hyperperformance service to size the bushings (if that is an issue).

 

[kten]

Agree, it's just a quick way of seeing if there is likely to have been overzealous greasemanship.

I'd be doing a full airspring service personally before spending $600 to $700 bucks at NSD for the smashpot with a hyperperformance service to size the bushings (if that is an issue).

Same. Good time to check the bushings whilst you are servicing the fork.