Are more speeds better?

[Calvin27]

HI folks,

I recently came across a hard rubbish bike and now i have another project, but that's not the point of this thread.

The thing was really needing a lot of love, bottom of the barrel deore 8 speed shifter, left out in rain, the chain rusted, chainrings also rusted. Owner said it broke a year ago and the owner just left it in the rain the whole time. Anyway I bring it back expecting the worst. Turns out it shifts. Shifts really well. There are huge gaps in gearing, but for a mountain/gravel bike, it's not a big deal, who needs multi-shift when the gear spacing is large to begin with?

Got me thinking, new 12 speed groupsets, they are obviously more fragile and require more precision, cost a fair bit. Have we overcooked the number of gears? Personally I can't see the benefits of 12 speed am I missing something? Thoughts?

 

[Labcanary]

My new bike came with 12 speed Shimano.
I changed it to the 10 speed gear I had on my old bike.
My other bike has 9 speed Box.

For me, I don't benefit from smaller gaps in range. I'm a hack rider.
It's also about the price of spares. 9 and 10 speed chains are cheaper than 12 speed.

 

[yetok12398]

Sure

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[leitch]

More is more. That's about it.

Unfortunately the improvements that have come in materials, shift quality, things like Shadow+ and closer cassette ratios etc have been accompanied by increased #s of gears because it's a marketing arms race. Is my 12sp XT on one bike better than my 11sp XT on the other because it has one extra gear? No, but the bigger range is welcome, the shift quality is better, the shifter ergonomics are nicer, etc.

Likewise the 9100 series 11sp Dura-Ace on my roadie is not better than the 7900 10sp DA on my bike from years ago because it has an extra gear, but because it shifts way better, the lever ergonomics are way better, etc etc

 

[Squidfayce]

remember comparing who had more gears at the bike shed in early high school in the 90's. 21 was hands down was better than 18, pfwoar!

 

[Halo1]

My 9 Speed lasted last longer and shifter better then my 11 speed. I need a 46t and also like to have a 40t in the range as well. The rest of the gears I am not fussed on and could be any combo or speed. I don’t pedal a lot when descending so it is all about climbing comforts.
I would like to buy single rings at a good price and make up your own cassette as some rings would last a life time for me.

 

[Oddjob]

10 speed master race member here. Given that you can get a Microshift Advent X with a 11-48 cassette that weighs less than 12s XTR and is pretty cheap. I would say that the big Ss have barked up the wrong tree, especially for e-bikes.

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[Labcanary]

21 was hands down was better than 18, pfwoar!

This still applies on Gumtree

10 speed master race member here. Given that you can get a Microshift Advent X with a 11-48 cassette that weighs less than 12s XTR and is pretty cheap. I would say that the big Ss have barked up the wrong tree, especially for e-bikes.

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In addition to this, Microshift are trying very hard to cover all disciplines. My husband has Advent (9sp) on his commuter/adventure/gravel bike. He's got surly corner bars on it and the regular trigger shifter isn't ideal in the configuration he likes, so he has a bar end shifter.

I was a Shimano 10 speed fan girl, but when the time comes to replace things, I'm jumping ship to Microshift. Box has been great, but the cost of replacements often exceeds Microshift, so I'll likely ditch that eventually too.

 

[nathanm]

I've got various bikes with 10, 11 and 12 speed. The SRAM X0? 11 speed stuff on my 2015 Merida has been faultless and I love it, though would like something higher (or is it lower) than 42t granny.
12 Speed SRAM on the Canyon and I love the 51t granny but I'm going through hangers regularly and have already worn out a chain after little kms. Jaynes Polygoon is 12s Shimano SLX and shifts nicely but has that issue where if you backpedal it auto shifts down 3 gears or more.
For me 11 speed really should have been the max and 10 speed was the sweet spot.

 

[caad9]

I've gone 9, 10, 11, 12 and now back to 11.

I think XX1 11 speed is the best I have used but I am now happy enough plodding along with XT 11speed.

I found the 12 speed needs too much TLC for my limited riding time

 

[The Dude]

I'm assuming this will be my last post.......

I still can't go past 10-speed XT or XTR
Bulletproof reliability, chains and cassettes last, shifts flawlessly, still has a clutch (so virtually no dropped chains), etc., etc.

And I get around the range issue with a second shifter

 

[Oddjob]

I'm assuming this will be my last post.......

I still can't go past 10-speed XT or XTR
Bulletproof reliability, chains and cassettes last, shifts flawlessly, still has a clutch (so virtually no dropped chains), etc., etc.

And I get around the range issue with a second shifter

I like your thinking, but you stay the hell away from my pile of 10s XTR shifters and dual chainring cranks.

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[Flow-Rider]

Got me thinking, new 12 speed groupsets, they are obviously more fragile and require more precision, cost a fair bit. Have we overcooked the number of gears? Personally I can't see the benefits of 12 speed am I missing something? Thoughts?

The 12 speed seems to be ok for the trail riding part, but it really suckers when you mix fire roads and commuting all on the one bike. As for temperamental shifting and adjustment, 10sp was a lot worse than 8 & 9 but 11 and 12 really suck. 2 x 9sp was the best I reckon, had a wide range of gearing, and you could run the chains all the way up to 1.0 wear without destroying the cassettes.

 

[Stredda]

For general mountain biking on single track, it's more about the gear range than the number of gears.10 speeds with similar range as the current 11 and 12 speeds would be fine. The closer you get to road riding the more concern you have with keeping the ideal cadence. When you are on an undulating single trail, you aren't staying in the one gear for very long, so constant cadence isn't as much of an issue, but you do want enough range to pedal up the steep stuff and down the smoother descents.

 

[slowmick]

For the most part I only need 3 gears - up, along and down. other than that it is just pace holders to enable me to shift between them. 11 speed seems to be happy enough with my fumbling to adjust it. 12 speed appears to be aimed at fitters who like tight tolerances.

 

[Calvin27]

y 9 Speed lasted last longer and shifter better then my 11 speed.

This is pretty much my point. Riding a beat up 8 speed is a miles better shifting experience than modern 11 (I haven't lost my 12 speed virginity yet). The kicker is the more speeds, the less longer it lasts and more fussy it gets. Especially on ebikes, where the consumables wear faster, why woudl you want a 12s 52t range when you have a motor. It's just ridiculous.

2 x 9sp was the best I reckon

I'm a fan of 10 speed, but mainly because of the development that came with it. 10 speed started giving us wider range, 1x systems, clutch RDs (some people think this is a bad thing lol) and standardised multi shift shifters etc. ( speed is the pinnacle though and I'd be happy to ride that forever, but it never came with a lot of the stuff like 40t range and clutch. With the box stuff on sale now though it's a good preposition. I've ordered 2 gruppos 8 and 9 speed. One for the ebike (8 speed for max cheapness and burlyness) and 9 speed for when I need to replace a groupset. The big thing that hit me hard was ths shifting quality though, 8/9 speed is so much more fuss free than the 10/11/12! and that's comparing an 2020 xt to a 2005 deore!

 

[ozzybmx]

12 is a PITA.

 

[sane]

I grabbed xx1/x01 11s gear for the recent build thinking it is the sweet spot through the recent ‘state enforced parts acquisition isolation period’ only to find that the new frame’s chain stay sits too high for a clear chain line. Can’t shift it to save myself now.

FW

 

[Dales Cannon]

12 is a PITA.

Just use it on the bike, it isn't anatomically certified.

 

[ozzybmx]

Just use it on the bike, it isn't anatomically certified.

I try, though sometimes I think it performs better in my anal cavity.