I know little of economics, but I know this:
My $160k appartment bought in 1997 is now worth about $350k.
Some quick mathematics means that has provided a return of 8% per annum. Very standard rate of return that - a very fair expectation with property, over the longer term is to double the investment over a period of ten years, which is exactly what you have done. That is a return expectation over the last fifty years or so, not just the last ten. So, in actual fact you have achieved a long-standing market return.
If you had bought in 1980, and sold in 1990, the return would generally have been similar. Except with inflation, number would be smaller, but to offset that, salaries were smaller too.
If I was in the same job these days as I was back then, there's no way in hell I could afford that apartment. Sure, it's made me a decent amount of money, but it's screwed those who didn't get in when I did!
The point of investment returns, is not WHEN to get in, but simply to do so - be in the market. As I say above the same rate of return has been seen for decades. Generally.
Buy a home or unit today - even with prices you see as being so Inflated, and you will roughly double your investment over the next ten years. Even with your quoted stellar pricing.
I also know that Howard has been the political manipulater (I.E. F*cking liar) concerning:
Iraq: decision timelines, deployment of troops, WMDs, Andrew Wilkie.
AWB
Children overboard.
Tampa crisis.
David Hicks.....oh yeah, he gives a shit now, 5 years later, because an election is coming. God, please let some one be fooled by that political manouvreing and oportunism so I can look down on their intellect!
"How does it feel to be in the minority?"
Quite depressing actually. To know that the majority of my countrymen either are too stupid to know when they're being conned, don't care or are happy to let this stuff happen just to make sure they get rich.
I prefer morals and ethics over riches.
Would you bring your children up to have the same kind of values and standards that have been displayed above? LAst time I checked, manipulation and lies weren't the best charater traits in a person.
As an addage to this, I reckon Labor would have done exactly the same given the chance. But the fact is they didn't because they weren't in power. Doesn't mean we should let this government get away with it.
People in this argument are being far too black-and-white about the decision process.
I love how people point blank see those who voted for Howard as ignoring the lies and manipulation he has dealt out over the years.
Wake up people
. We have seen that, and know that. For fucks sake, are you guys the
ONLY people in Australia who realise that Howard pulled some white lies over the children overboard affair etc?
Quote Johnny:
Quite depressing actually. To know that the majority of my countrymen either are too stupid to know when they're being conned, don't care or are happy to let this stuff happen just to make sure they get rich.
.
.
As an addage to this, I reckon Labor would have done exactly the same given the chance. But the fact is they didn't because they weren't in power. Doesn't mean we should let this government get away with it.
Please read those two paragraphs.
You are saying Liberal voters are too Stupid to realise they were being conned. THEN saying Labour would have done EXACTLY THE SAME.
So, to take your argument a little further, they would have gotten exactly as Rich with Labour anyhow. Therefore, the decision to vote Liberal was not about getting Rich Versus Morals.
From my point of view, there is never a simple clear-cut decision for voting. Labour has some policies I agree with, but MORE I disagree with(largely being the Union lackeys). Some of the shit Howard has gone on with are disgusting, but there are other reforms they have put in place that out-weigh those items. To some degree the quote by Nizai is precisely right. My emphasis in life, and voting to some degree is to provide the best possible for my family. If anyone has a problem with that, stiff shit. BUT to then turn around and say I am ignoring or condoning lies, global warming, or Iraq killings etc is to MAKE UP a simple, self serving argument.
Quote Johnny:
I prefer morals and ethics over riches.
Would you bring your children up to have the same kind of values and standards that have been displayed above? LAst time I checked, manipulation and lies weren't the best charater traits in a person.
Wow, is the only method of teaching our children good values, to vote against Liberal?
To try and tell me that I am instilling these as character traits due to a choice in an election is VERY self serving for an argument.
Are you telling me that the other sides of politics have NEVER lied, never manipulated, never bent the truth?
I have nearly had a fist-fight with my brother-in-law over this same simple ideal. He thought politicians never lied. My uncle and I said it until blue in the face that they ALWAYS have, and always will.
It does not make it quite right, by any means, but you have to attempt to understand the motives and posturing of politicians to try and see their real direction, and take actions on that basis. NEVER see what they say and do as Black-and-White.
The basis of what I am saying here, is there is never a clear-cut decision for an Election. Your own personal and family needs must be balanced against actions that have happened over the last term, and more, and then weighed up.
THEN you must look at the other side of the political spectrum, and weigh up how DIFFERENT their actions would have been, or may be in the future. Johnny, you yourself say Labour would have been no different in their actions. Maybe vote independent, or green, to influence preferences, but their lack of numbers and influence mean you may see that as a wasted vote.
This post is in no way a go simply at Johnny's post, but at all those who are simplifying statements for their own arguments sake. As I said, VERY FEW people were actually conned or too stupid to see various actions for what they were. To try saying that as your argument, shows lack of understanding, or unwillingness to see another point of view.
It has been said MANY MANY times by you guys that the decision to vote Howard means you are voting to GET RICH, as opposed to showing nice moral values. Don't give me that crap, there is much more to the argument than that simplified, self-serving view.
