Suspension Setup Sag/Travel

AaronJ

Likes Dirt
Hi gang,

Working on dialing my my new (used) 2017 Ibis Ripley LS.

Its running a Fox Factory 34 130mm and Float DPS Factory, both with upgraded internals and EVOL on the shock.

To summarise the issue up front, when I get at/near the correct sag, no matter how hard I crank on it, I'm getting only about 80% of the travel.

Any thought on what's going on? Its like its ramping up to fast.

I'm around 95kg, so 20kg heavier than the previous owner. Reckon both might have volume spacers? Obviously, I'm running way higher PSI to get the sag right for me, so wondering if there spacers plus the extra PSI could cause what I'm seeing???
 

AaronJ

Likes Dirt
Right, well just did that and found 2x10cc yellow spacers (20cc). Took one out and presto... +5psi, sag a smidge on the long end (30%) and 85-90% of travel. So I might try another +5psi before tomorrow's ride. Awesome.

Will suss out how to pull the shock down, as my suspicion is that's what's going on there also.
 
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ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
I'm of the opinion that you should come back from every ride with your 'band' gone full travel. Pick the roughest/jumpy track and go hard... at the bottom your travel 'O' ring should be maxed out... if its not, you are wasting your travel for the sake of looking enduro.
 

Cardy George

Piercing rural members since 1981
When I'm on my usual trails that I've ridden without a fuck up, I like to come back with 3-4 mm of 'oh shit' travel for when I do have a moment, but other than that I agree with @ozzybmx You're not getting your money's worth if you don't.
 

AaronJ

Likes Dirt
I hear you Ozzy and that's want I'm trying to get to... but (newby here remember)... isn't that were adding/removing spacers comes into play? In that you set your sag (essential first step) in the range you're after (say 20-30%) then tune (compression/spacers/etc) to get the required travel.

I was in a position where with the fork in the correct sag range I did not have enough travel, but if I got the travel right, I had way to much sag. I haven't ridden it yet, so i may even end up taking out the other 10cc to get that travel right.

I haven't pulled the shock to see if it has spacers also. Though I suspect it has given it appears to have the same issue as the fork with not achieving full travel. Plus talking to one of the other members with the same bike and rider weight (thanks Tubbsy), it seems most heavier Ripley riders seem to have more sag than Ibis suggest. Again, I was putting in way more PSI than suggested to get the sag Ibis suggest.

CG, from what I've read, the norm seems to be having around 10% spare for the unplanned hits. On my 130, that means I should be looking at 117mm travel, so lest say I aim for 120mm for all bar the biggest hits.
 

Cardy George

Piercing rural members since 1981
CG, from what I've read, the norm seems to be having around 10% spare for the unplanned hits. On my 130, that means I should be looking at 117mm travel, so lest say I aim for 120mm for all bar the biggest hits.
It's a personal preference thing, but 10% is a good starting point. Personally I'd probably still aim for only 5mm or so left. But don't get hung up on getting it exactly to the mm. A bike that feels good under you will be faster than a bike that is 'perfect'

For clarity I'm riding a 100mm XC Hardtail, and where I ride doesn't have massive descents or jumps, but the basic mechanics are still the same. I'm running the biggest spacer I can fit so I can soften the spring PSI way off for roots and rocks, and then spacer massively increases the pressure as I go thru the travel so it doesn't blow thru it like a Kmart bike. I'm not too focused on my sag as I'm not riding extreme terrain.

I've only been on a 'modern' fork for a bit over 12 months, and may well be way off with what I'm doing.

isn't that were adding/removing spacers comes into play? In that you set your sag (essential first step) in the range you're after (say 20-30%) then tune (compression/spacers/etc) to get the required travel.
You need to reset your sag PSI every time you change the volume spacers. It's a volume/pressure balancing act, with damping settings laid over the top.
 

Paulie_AU

Likes Dirt
I'm of the opinion that you should come back from every ride with your 'band' gone full travel. Pick the roughest/jumpy track and go hard... at the bottom your travel 'O' ring should be maxed out... if its not, you are wasting your travel for the sake of looking enduro.
Assuming all the places ridden are equally rough. My setup is great through chunder and big hits which I get to ride weekly but I also keep those settings to go to mellower trails. Tyre pressure changes a lottle per location though.
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
Assuming all the places ridden are equally rough. My setup is great through chunder and big hits which I get to ride weekly but I also keep those settings to go to mellower trails. Tyre pressure changes a lottle per location though.
Yes agreed, if you are riding XC trails you shouldn't be blasting through your 160mm of travel that is suited to hits on a gravity trail but you are on the wrong bike for the trails.

If you are a 1 bike owner and don't want to mess around before every ride, you'll just have to find a happy place and... be happy.
 

AaronJ

Likes Dirt
A bike that feels good under you will be faster than a bike that is 'perfect'
Funny that. I actually emailed Chuck Ibis about it also. His general response re shock sag/travel, was that the more than suggested sag/psi I am seeing was "not bad", "just go ride it and see how you like it" and then a little bit of tech advise. But pretty much what you're alluding to.
 

AaronJ

Likes Dirt
Yes agreed, if you are riding XC trails you shouldn't be blasting through your 160mm of travel that is suited to hits on a gravity trail but you are on the wrong bike for the trails.

If you are a 1 bike owner and don't want to mess around before every ride, you'll just have to find a happy place and... be happy.
Yep and hence why I'm on a 130/120mm 29er for general trials riding (i.e. more than XC but not enduro) and as a slightly bigger/heavier rider. I'm mostly doing Yarra and associated trails/tracks, with some Otways and others thrown in. Most going is fairly easy on travel until you hit the tree roots and mediums drops/jumps/etc. My aim at this point in time is to try and get not too much sag (say 20-25% rather than 30%) and about 90-95% of the 130/120mm travel.

I'm still to open the shock and see if it has the suspected spacers, but will report back.
 

teK--

Eats Squid
I'm of the opinion that you should come back from every ride with your 'band' gone full travel. Pick the roughest/jumpy track and go hard... at the bottom your travel 'O' ring should be maxed out... if its not, you are wasting your travel for the sake of looking enduro.
But that implies on every ride you have an O shit moment that uses full travel. I'm of view use less sag, which keeps ride height higher to maintain slacker head angle and proper frame geo. Use full travel ocasionally on very hard hits , not necessarily on every ride.
 

Kerplunk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Yep and hence why I'm on a 130/120mm 29er for general trials riding (i.e. more than XC but not enduro) and as a slightly bigger/heavier rider. I'm mostly doing Yarra and associated trails/tracks, with some Otways and others thrown in. Most going is fairly easy on travel until you hit the tree roots and mediums drops/jumps/etc. My aim at this point in time is to try and get not too much sag (say 20-25% rather than 30%) and about 90-95% of the 130/120mm travel.

I'm still to open the shock and see if it has the suspected spacers, but will report back.
Hi mate, you really shouldn’t be blowing through travel on the yarra, aren’t many drops that are big enough tbh. If your using close to full travel there it will be setup way too soft when riding anywhere else with proper features.. Lysterfield has a fair few jump/drops to flat that aren’t bad for suspension tweaking. The techy stuff on the south side of plenty gorge is good also to dial things in..
Silly I know, just checking you have the fork damping fully open? What psi have you got in the fork and shock? I have a 130mm 29er with the same fox bits (not factory though) and weigh about the same. I also ride the same trails.. My base setting might help as a starting point..
 

kten

understands stuff moorey doesn't
I'm of the opinion that you should come back from every ride with your 'band' gone full travel. Pick the roughest/jumpy track and go hard... at the bottom your travel 'O' ring should be maxed out... if its not, you are wasting your travel for the sake of looking enduro.
That last bit of travel for me is for the point in time when things haven't gone to plan so if that was happening every ride I'd be questioning my riding, my line choices and/or suspension set up. Any section of trail that I finish and notice the indicator ring has bottomed out I always know exactly where it has happened lol
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
But that implies on every ride you have an O shit moment that uses full travel. I'm of view use less sag, which keeps ride height higher to maintain slacker head angle and proper frame geo. Use full travel ocasionally on very hard hits , not necessarily on every ride.
Running a hard front to maintain slack HA and proper geo ! Never heard of that before... might as well just pump the front up to 300 and drop all the air from your shock and call it 62°.
If you dont use your full travel ( O ring hard up or within 5mm) on a gravity run, then your suspension is probably not set up correctly, I like plush and good small bump compliance so mine will be on the softer side, some people like yourself are saving 20mm of their 150mm fork for an O shit moment and a strange geometry saving idea.

Dont get me wrong, I'm not riding with 50psi in there, bobbing on the stops... but on a gravity run, I'll finish it with the band either up hard or within 5-10mm... I'll also know exactly where it happened too. I'm definitely not saving 20mm for a rainy day.
 
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teK--

Eats Squid
Less sag doesn't only mean hard suspension though.

Compare running 30% fork sag with several volume reducers, versus less or no reducers and a higher pressure to get 20-25% sag. The latter will have better mid stroke support and generally less ending rate.

At my ideal all round setup I prob use 90%/155mm travel by the end of the day. The other 10% only really gets used in oh shit moments or when going at race pace. I don't ride at 100%, 100% of the time.

But that's what it comes down to.. there is no one setup that suits everyone.
 

creaky

XMAS Plumper
Compare running 30% fork sag with several volume reducers, versus less or no reducers and a higher pressure to get 20-25% sag. The latter will have better mid stroke support and generally less ending rate.
Gotta agree with this, my preferred setup. I’m usually taking a spacer out of a stock setup and running a bit more pressure.
 

Kerplunk

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Compare running 30% fork sag with several volume reducers, versus less or no reducers and a higher pressure to get 20-25% sag. The latter will have better mid stroke support and generally less ending rate.
Doesn’t higher pressures reduce the small bump sensitivity though? I would love more mid stroke on my fox 34 but when I remove spacers it’s harder on the hands, and if I lower pressure it bottoms out too easy..
 
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