11/12 VIC DH Series

[Calvin M]

I think that people will find that some of the small clubs with more liked and techy tracks didnt put forward to hold races this year. I belive this is because small groups of people have worked there ring out year after year only to have to put up with the complants and deal with the shit that a small number of cocks cause at each race. So can eveyone do there best to not piss the locals and police off. Do as marshalls say and dont be a smart ass. If a race is no camping dont camp and cut down trees for a fire. So eveyone that stuffed around last year can be thanked for the loss of some tracks for this year. Cheers

 

[thematerialquestion]

I think that people will find that some of the small clubs with more liked and techy tracks didnt put forward to hold races this year. I belive this is because small groups of people have worked there ring out year after year only to have to put up with the complants and deal with the shit that a small number of cocks cause at each race. So can eveyone do there best to not piss the locals and police off. Do as marshalls say and dont be a smart ass. If a race is no camping dont camp and cut down trees for a fire. So eveyone that stuffed around last year can be thanked for the loss of some tracks for this year. Cheers

Someone had to say it, well done Cal!

Being from a small club, I'm also very aware of the effort required in staging a race. When its all said and done there really is no thanks from the vast majority of attendees. There is a lot of negative fallout to deal with as has been pointed out above. I've organised the last 3 races in Mt Beauty and quite frankly have already had a gutfull of unacknowledged effort, no real thanks/appreciation and the feedback of complaints and whingeing from a bunch of blokes that I don't see making any effort or positive contribution to the series. Having said that, I don't do it for 'the thanks', I do it because I like to do it.

The 1st fact here is that all of the clubs capable of staging a race were given the opportunity to. The clubs that wanted to host a round this season are. The clubs that didn't want to host a round (some reasons stated above) aren't.

The 2nd fact is that the VDHS and individual clubs works mighty hard behind the scenes to present you all with a season. They are ALL volunteers and many don't even ride a bike. Be thankful for what you have and what is on offer. If you don't like it, be more active in making it change. Moaning about it on a forum is not making an active change, it only pisses off those that are having a crack.

Get out there next season and have a blast. Give thanks to all those involved and if you want to see it done differently, pull your finger out and get involved in the nuts and bolts of it and quit bitching!

Good luck!

 

[anth69]

Someone had to say it, well done Cal!


The 2nd fact is that the VDHS and individual clubs works mighty hard behind the scenes to present you all with a season. They are ALL volunteers and many don't even ride a bike. Be thankful for what you have and what is on offer. If you don't like it, be more active in making it change. Moaning about it on a forum is not making an active change, it only pisses off those that are having a crack.

Get out there next season and have a blast. Give thanks to all those involved and if you want to see it done differently, pull your finger out and get involved in the nuts and bolts of it and quit bitching!

Good luck!

I see the vdhs as a business , it charges companies for advertising and charges entry fees , and i expect a given service for my $ ... so its no good saying i should be thankful for whats on offer , im thinking more along the lines that I also supported the series .. I forked out for 3 entries at EVERY race and that should be considered just as much as your volunteering ... being thankful goes both ways in my books . As a comparison we're racing bmx this season along with DH.. there's some interesting comparisons there ..take the vic titles in shepp this coming november ( link below ) ...world standard UCI track , 3 days of practice , 2 days of racing ( 7 motos is WAY more bang for buck than a 2 minute timed run ) and $10K prize pool for ONE weekend , the race has financial support from the Vic gov and faciltates junior racing ( sprocket rockets is a class to breed racers for the future , with coaching clinics, a target based logbook even a backpack with gifts upon joining ...darn sight better than my sons being abused for being 'in the way' on a dh course )

http://www.bmxv.com.au/Entry_form_State_Champs_2011_final_version.pdf

 

[jmurphy]

I see the vdhs as a business , it charges companies for advertising and charges entry fees , and i expect a given service for my $ ... so its no good saying i should be thankful for whats on offer , im thinking more along the lines that I also supported the series .. I forked out for 3 entries at EVERY race and that should be considered just as much as your volunteering ... being thankful goes both ways in my books . As a comparison we're racing bmx this season along with DH.. there's some interesting comparisons there ..take the vic titles in shepp this coming november ( link below ) ...world standard UCI track , 3 days of practice , 2 days of racing ( 7 motos is WAY more bang for buck than a 2 minute timed run ) and $10K prize pool for ONE weekend , the race has financial support from the Vic gov and faciltates junior racing ( sprocket rockets is a class to breed racers for the future , with coaching clinics, a target based logbook even a backpack with gifts upon joining ...darn sight better than my sons being abused for being 'in the way' on a dh course )

http://www.bmxv.com.au/Entry_form_State_Champs_2011_final_version.pdf

If the VDHS is a business its a not for profit one, all that money your paying for entry goes straight back into your riding, to shuttle you up and down the hill for 1 and a half days and then once more for a race run, for the timing equiptment, toilets, tent hire for rego, heaps of stuff! The people your saying should be thanking you are VOLUNTEERS. Be grateful they are there and yes say thanks, really doesnt take much effort.

 

[jacko13]

darn sight better than my sons being abused for being 'in the way' on a dh course )

I did see a certain 'high level' rider having a go at juniours a couple of times throught the season...
However most riders are too worries by your kids being in front of them, they might be a little frustrated when trying to do a full run, but probably won't go to the lengths of abusing your kids.

 

[Bilza_ridez]

Line up out yay

Good to see the track lineup out, been waiting for a while
good work on the last VDHS season defs will try and race most of these

 

[Ian M]

More Official Information

Everyone must remember that this series is entirely organised and run by volunteers. Many of the clubs involved are very small and work tirelessly to build & maintain tracks and put in a huge effort to run events for the benefit of YOU, the rider. The majority of feedback from both riders and clubs on the last series was that it was too long. Last series was 8 events, this was the most that the state series has ever run and it took its toll on volunteers, riders and wallets.


The state series meeting of was very positive. This is an open meeting that everyone is welcome to attend. There was a great representation from numerous clubs across Victoria. Unfortunately not all clubs were in a position to host an event this year for various reasons. You should all be extremely grateful for the 5 clubs that will are involved in the 2011/12 series as without them you would not even has a series to compete in! This should answer the question from “Wisey” and the concerns about track selection from “Ozza”.


“Calvin M” is spot on. A few idiots can spoil it for everyone. Many of the tracks are on private property and in small towns. If riders annoy the locals and police the event will not be welcome back! Don’t blame the VHDS for not holding an event on your favourite track, find the idiots who pissed off the locals and complain to them.


“anth69”. VDHS is a non profit organisation. It is nothing like a business. Except first aid no one is paid for running these events. You also can not compare BMX and DH events. The cost of transport and First Aid at DH events is HUGE and don’t forget there is also the cost of the timing equipment. Some of the clubs last year were lucky to cover costs. If clubs do make a profit it is put back into building and maintaining trails. The VDHS issued cash and prizes to the value of $59,965.55 last series. This is an average of $7500 per event across all 8 events. This is the most the state series has ever given away.


The VDHS has also discussed running training and coaching clinics for younger riders. This is evolving and if it can’t happen for this series it will hopefully come about before the next one.


“Murphnat”. I can assure you clubs are working closely with DSE, Parks Victoria and private land owners to develop more tracks. This is not a quick process. Dealing with any government authority involves paper work and lots of it. It can take a year or more of planning to get a permit and/or funding before work can even begin on new tracks that are legal. Once work begins it is not a quick process, it takes months to build a quality track that is legal and complies with all the IMBA regulations. Once again most of this work is done by volunteers behind the scenes for the benefit of you, the riders.


I suggest to everyone that you become a member of your local club and actually attend club meetings to see how much effort is being put in behind the scenes and perhaps volunteer to help every now and then.


In regards to each venue for the 2011/12 series:

Round 1: You Yangs:
There round in last series was cancelled and the park has been closed for over 6 months now. The race track has changed so if you though you knew the track, think again as there are new surprises and challenges in store.

Round 2: Mt Major / Shepparton
This track surprised most people last series, it was a lot more fun & technical than everyone expected. Don’t make the same mistake twice and miss this race. It is also the best track from a spectator’s point of view so bring all your family & mates to soak up the atmosphere.

Round 3: Mt Beauty
This is the perfect venue to kick off the festive season. Who knows there may even be sightings of Santa on a DH bike! Different track to last year but just as fun and challenging.

Round 4: Mt Buller
Where else in Victoria can you catch a chairlift to the top of the hill with your bike? This is a unique venue in Victoria

State Champs: Narbethong
New track built by FTFDH members. Details of this track are still under wraps, more will be revealed closer to the event.

Round 5: Maldon.
Track will start and finish in the same place as last year but you can’t call it the same track. It will be longer and more technical. The Wombat crew with the support of Parks Victoria will be doing some major track work before the next race.


The state series meeting was also discussing the 2012/13 series and there are some very exciting developments in the works so you can expect some different tracks again in the next series. Having said that this series must be a success before we can move on, so we need everyone to get along and support the events in 2011/12.


This is an open forum and everyone is welcome to an opinion. Hopefully this has answered people’s questions and given more of an insight into how the 2011/12 season was planned.


See you all on a hill somewhere soon.

 

[anth69]

Thanks for that ( ianm ) the series will have our family's support , if advice/input is welcome I'll see what can be gained from racing in other disciplines , and for what it's worth , I probably show a bit more gratitude to volunteers than normal ( in person on the track ) as they always encourage my boys and look out for them

Looking forward to racing

 

[Ian M]

Thanks for that ( ianm ) the series will have our family's support , if advice is welcome I'll see what can be gained from racing in other disciplines , and for what it's worth , I probably show a bit more gratitude to volunteers ( in person on the track ) as they always encourage my boys and look out for them

Looking forward to racing

Will be great to see you an your boys at each round again this series. The cheer that goes up from the spectators as your boys go past is fantastic, they have the biggest grins on the faces when they cross the finish line. Hopefully we can encourage a lot more new riders and will see a lot more young kids at this series.

There is no argument, racing in other disciplines will help build your overall skill level. If your boys keep racing they will become seriously good riders in a few years time.

 

[Jimass]

gonna have to hit the gym!
looks like most of the races will be won on fitness, rather than balls.
(which i have neither of)

still keen! Haven't ridden since maldon when i broke my hand!

BIKESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

 

[andy73]

Big thanks to everyone working to pull this together. As you look across all the states I still believe the VDHS to be the premier series in terms of events/venues etc. Regardless, the work is appreciated and, in case I forget to say it when I'm on the hill, thanks for all the hard work.

 

[S.]

“anth69”. VDHS is a non profit organisation. It is nothing like a business. Except first aid no one is paid for running these events. You also can not compare BMX and DH events. The cost of transport and First Aid at DH events is HUGE and don’t forget there is also the cost of the timing equipment. Some of the clubs last year were lucky to cover costs. If clubs do make a profit it is put back into building and maintaining trails. The VDHS issued cash and prizes to the value of $59,965.55 last series. This is an average of $7500 per event across all 8 events. This is the most the state series has ever given away.

Ian, I totally understand and agree with what you're saying, however anth69 does make a point - people are paying money, and expect something in return. The fact that it's run by volunteers doesn't mean the riders didn't pay, if anything that makes it even worse whenever there is a problem at a race, because now we've got riders forking out money for something, organisers/workers who aren't profiting from it and crack the shits about it (and reasonably so!) when criticisms are made because they feel angry that their efforts aren't appreciated (which they are, by 99% of the riders 99% of the time!).

When we're now talking about a series with more than 6 figure gross turnovers per season, maybe it's time that somebody stepped in and actually did run the series as a proper business? I think that if we really want to legitimise organised downhill racing in Vic/Aus, maybe this is the next step - in the same way that Rapid Ascent and Two Wheel Promotions etc run enduro events. Obviously I'm not suggesting that someone somewhere "needs" to do this, nor am I in a position to do it myself, but if anybody out there is listening - worth running numbers to see if it's viable? It seems to me that having half a dozen different clubs each needing to organise each race more or less separately, on separate budgets, must surely mean there is a lot of redundancy in there that could be eliminated by having a single central organising business, that could cut that inefficiency out and turn it into profit, better race organisation (not that it's bad, this year was retardedly good actually), and not leave people on both sides of the riding/organising fence feeling a bit bitter whenever something goes wrong.

Who knows, maybe I'm delusional, but it doesn't sound bad in theory.

 

[trav]

Ian, I totally understand and agree with what you're saying, however anth69 does make a point - people are paying money, and expect something in return. The fact that it's run by volunteers doesn't mean the riders didn't pay, if anything that makes it even worse whenever there is a problem at a race, because now we've got riders forking out money for something, organisers/workers who aren't profiting from it and crack the shits about it (and reasonably so!) when criticisms are made because they feel angry that their efforts aren't appreciated (which they are, by 99% of the riders 99% of the time!).

When we're now talking about a series with more than 6 figure gross turnovers per season, maybe it's time that somebody stepped in and actually did run the series as a proper business? I think that if we really want to legitimise organised downhill racing in Vic/Aus, maybe this is the next step - in the same way that Rapid Ascent and Two Wheel Promotions etc run enduro events. Obviously I'm not suggesting that someone somewhere "needs" to do this, nor am I in a position to do it myself, but if anybody out there is listening - worth running numbers to see if it's viable? It seems to me that having half a dozen different clubs each needing to organise each race more or less separately, on separate budgets, must surely mean there is a lot of redundancy in there that could be eliminated by having a single central organising business, that could cut that inefficiency out and turn it into profit, better race organisation (not that it's bad, this year was retardedly good actually), and not leave people on both sides of the riding/organising fence feeling a bit bitter whenever something goes wrong.

Who knows, maybe I'm delusional, but it doesn't sound bad in theory.

More than a 6 figure gross turn over per season ,yes you are delusional.

I would like to know who told you that one.

 

[indica]

And if it is to run like a business that is removing the grassroots feel from it... which I think would be detrimental.
I also think that people that complain can perhaps put some effort into it themselves.

 

[Whitie]

2011/2012

More than a 6 figure gross turn over per season ,yes you are delusional.

I would like to know who told you that one.

Simple maths really 300 riders @ average of $90 = $27,000 x 8 = $216,000 - six figures gross.

But having seen the other side there isn't much profit in it, clubs are lucky if they just break even running a DH event.

In one of the latest mags there's and article on DH and how it's losing "funding" and interest from Government departments - not being an
Olympic Sport isn't helping matters. Also have seen similar problems with the Department of Name Change through 4WD clubs some rangers are all for it and the one in the adjoining park can be against it.

I can also see after seeing damage caused at race venues, and to and from them why some of the tracks aren't being run. Travelling down
Mt Baw Baw the traffic lights that were overturned are worth over $20,000 - not so funny when you see the cost put through insurance claims for damage caused by idiots.

We're looking forward to the new season and especially the "young riders" program in the pipeline - Oskar might be out of U13's by then

Also we can't fault the VDHS Committee, we had a query interstate re Oskar racing, went everywhere via email up to MTBA and then back to the
club with still no definite answer. Well done guys - you run an awesome series.

 

[thematerialquestion]

Lets say that someone did run the series as a business. Good businesses make profits. Bad businesses don't, obviously. Any level headed business person would make whatever changes necessary to ensure that their business does indeed make a profit. This means raising entry fees and cutting the quality of the service on offer. Nobody wants that. As pointed out, presently the profits made by individual clubs (if any, this REALLY needs to be stressed) are channeled straight back into the sport, be it the venue facilities, new trails, new equipment, club member sponsorship programs etc. Should it ever happen it would be silly to assume that the business operator would not be lining their own pockets with the proceeds. In a nutshell: businessman does well, bike rider does not. Its a harsh reality.

 

[Ian M]

All of Whitie's comments are spot on. His figures are a little high but you get the idea.
Realistic figures are:
Average riders per event 250 @ average entry fee $85 = $21,250 per event

First aid, transport, timing, rego and permits can cost on average $12,000
Cash & prizes are also paid by the club running the event.
Also need to factor in the costs of toilets, rubbish, PA system, radio hire, advertising e.t.c
There is also the cost of materials used to build and maintain tracks.
You can see that there is very little left at the end of the event.

Each event requires a minimum of 25 volunteers per day to run. If the events were being run by private promoters you still need the same number of drivers, marshals, timing and registration people, all of these people would need to be paid.


"S."
Any suggestions on how the VHDS can save money are always welcome.

Yes the sport has a high $ turnover but it also has huge expenses. As we all know the VDHS is the biggest DH series in the country. If there was money to be made private promoters would be throwing themselves at the committee wanting to run the events.

If a private promoter was to run the event they would be motivated by PROFIT which would mean entry fees will rise. They will not be involved in building and maintaining trails. They will simply come in run the event, take any money that is made and leave.

Downhill events are a lot more complex to run compaired to XC and BMX as they don’t involve transport, they have a very simple timing system and a much lower risk of injury.

If there are any provate promotors out there who are interested in running the events and can quarantee that entry fees will not rise and that clubs will be financially better off they are more than welcome to contact the VHDS committee.

 

[S.]

More than a 6 figure gross turn over per season ,yes you are delusional.

I would like to know who told you that one.

As Whitie pointed out, basic maths told me that one. If you can afford to be giving away $60k worth of cash and prizes, it's pretty obvious to start with.

Lets say that someone did run the series as a business. Good businesses make profits. Bad businesses don't, obviously. Any level headed business person would make whatever changes necessary to ensure that their business does indeed make a profit. This means raising entry fees and cutting the quality of the service on offer. Nobody wants that. As pointed out, presently the profits made by individual clubs (if any, this REALLY needs to be stressed) are channeled straight back into the sport, be it the venue facilities, new trails, new equipment, club member sponsorship programs etc. Should it ever happen it would be silly to assume that the business operator would not be lining their own pockets with the proceeds. In a nutshell: businessman does well, bike rider does not. Its a harsh reality.

Except that in this case, keeping the rider happy IS good business. Arguably the best-run races, from a rider's point of view, in the entire country (across the whole spectrum of xc/enduro/dh) are the enduros etc run by promotional companies. There is nothing except lack of foresight that would mean a company running such a series would be making money at the expense of quality racing - cos if the races suck, people won't go, profits will drop! The same sort of investment in the sport would be in such a company's own best interests - they're the ones responsible for the equipment, venue maintenance and so forth. I don't see those two being mutually exclusive, especially if existing equipment (trailers, timing gear etc) were rented by such an organising company from the existing clubs, which still maintains some kind of income for them.

I'd say it's actually got a far better chance of motivating the organisers to get it together, because what we keep seeing in race organisation is the same old pattern:

1. A small number of super enthusiastic, committed volunteers run a race or a series.
2. Said people's enthusiasm wanes after a couple of years of hard slog, criticism from riders (justified or not - mostly not)
3. People get sick of doing it and get out to make way for the next lot of volunteers to hopefully step up to the plate and do as good or better a job.

Is this really going to go on forever? At some point, the organisers are likely to crack the shits (understandably) or be unable to just keep giving away their time and labour for free, and at some point, there isn't going to be a plentiful supply of altruistic volunteers willing to take over, which means the series is likely to die in the arse. That might be next year or it might be 20 years away, I'm certainly not commenting on the current state of affairs, but the current system looks less sustainable than running the series for profit, at least to my uneducated eyes. Five years ago there wasn't any kind of coordinated organisation, other than the occasional race here and there, there wasn't even a series - how hard would it be for things to fall back into that state? I think that would be disappointing given how far the Vic series has come in the past couple of years.

For the record though: I greatly enjoyed the series this season just gone, for the most part it was super well organised and lots of fun, I'm just putting this forward as a potential idea for the future. Please understand I am trying to be somewhat constructive here rather than just negative

 

[anth69]

promoters usually dont like playing the MTBA game either... ( different liability covers and rules/regulations ..or lack there-of ) anyways , im learning things from this thread ..hopefully its constructive with differing opinions put forward , the bmx racing is a pretty polished act with government funding and has been going for decades ... im keen to see/race more and if anything from it's workings can be used to help VDHS ?

 

[Ian M]

Sponsors

Another important aspect of the VDHS is the sponsors. Without then we would not have been able to give away $60,000 last series. We are very thankful to the sponsors from last season as they went well above and beyond their required levels.

The easiest way to help clubs make more profit at events is to try and increase the sponsorship contributions. More sponsorship of events = more profit for clubs = more funds for trail building = better quality tracks = happy riders = bigger events following year.

Sponsors from outside the bike industry are more than welcome.
Anyone out there work for Toyota or Nissan? Check out their website and TV ads for their SUV’s they almost always include a bike. There are more bikes than cars sold in Australia each year and everyone needs a car to get to events.

The VDHS is the premier series in Australia and is also getting exposure internationally thanks to the videos being put together by Jake Lucas! All sponsors certainly get great exposure for there money.

The VDHS are seeking sponsors for the 2011/12 series so if you are interested or have any contacts we can talk to please forward the details to the VDHS committee. Contact details can be found on the VDHS website http://www.vicdhseries.com/