2020 Enduro World Series

[SummitFever]

I feel for any athelete innocently caught up in a positive drug test. However,

• there have been many cases of supplements inadvertently containing PEDs, the ones that don't have shown no clinical performance enhancing benefits so just eat and drink normal food;
• the sport is full of drug cheats;
• doctors can be cheats as well and will creatively prescribe PEDs for "therapeutic" reasons;
• its not good enough for an athelete to claim ignorance. It's their job. Anyone can get the sack for not following the rules of their job. Given the serious consequences, err on the side of caution.

 

[moorey]

I feel for any athelete innocently caught up in a positive drug test. However,

• there have been many cases of supplements inadvertently containing PEDs, the ones that don't have shown no clinical performance enhancing benefits so just eat and drink normal food;
• the sport is full of drug cheats;
• doctors can be cheats as well and will creatively prescribe PEDs for "therapeutic" reasons;
• its not good enough for an athelete to claim ignorance. It's their job. Anyone can get the sack for not following the rules of their job. Given the serious consequences, err on the side of caution.

While I agree...I don’t feel this applies to Maes.

It’s not like it was a team coach, trainer, doctor or team mate. It was an event medic.

Just my opinion.

Edit. I don’t believe it’s ‘full’ of drug cheats. Road maybe, but can’t clump all cycling together.

 

[Daniel Hale]

I feel for any athelete innocently caught up in a positive drug test. However,

• there have been many cases of supplements inadvertently containing PEDs, the ones that don't have shown no clinical performance enhancing benefits so just eat and drink normal food;
• the sport is full of drug cheats;
• doctors can be cheats as well and will creatively prescribe PEDs for "therapeutic" reasons;
• its not good enough for an athelete to claim ignorance. It's their job. Anyone can get the sack for not following the rules of their job. Given the serious consequences, err on the side of caution.

yep i agree, there are prob still so many cheats not being caught

i am surprised how prevelant it appears to be, apparently lots of golfers/ bowlers take substances to slow heart rate so they can make crucial shots..even down to club/state level...where no testing takes place

i also have no sympathy for peeps like warnie, i borrowed one of my mother’s fluid tablets

anyways for something more practical what are the ews guys taking for advantage? substances like roadies

 

[caad9]

It should come as no surprise that as soon as they introduce testing, cases pop up.
This one is extremely unlucky, but i don't feel it's any more unlucky than Rude's situation

 

[rangersac]

I was just saying to Moorey that this really strikes me as WADA following the rules as written, and not the intent of the laws they have implemented. The intent of an anti-doping agency is to police the riders who are seeking to gain an unfair advantage through use of performance enhancing drugs. This treatment has a clear chain of command and logic to it, and even then, the agent is not even a performance enhancer, but a masking agent at best.

This is a very different situation from what Rude and Jared found themselves in, and in my opinion it's a disaster that they cannot take a bit of context into account and are dishing out such a harsh punishment in any case.

Gotta agree with you there. Fuck me if you can get a TUE for a bit of asthma preventative medication, why the heck can't you for an infection that's turned bad? And the fact that the UCI accepted in its judgement that the drug would not have enhanced his performance and was administered by a doctor really rubs salt into the wound.

 

[hifiandmtb]

The drug given was never said to be performance enhancing, it could be used as a masking agent.

Masking agents are also banned because they mask other stuff.

You don't let Maes off because he didn't take anything performance enhancing, you let him off because the masking agent was used to save him from serious infection, not to mask another performance enhancing drug.

 

[moorey]

I’m wondering if this is like the Mueller Report? Have nay sayers read the full story, or just yelling ‘COLLUSION and OBSTRUCTION!’?

 

[Boom King]

While I agree...I don’t feel this applies to Maes.

It’s not like it was a team coach, trainer, doctor or team mate. It was an event medic.

Just my opinion.

Edit. I don’t believe it’s ‘full’ of drug cheats. Road maybe, but can’t clump all cycling together.

Ecactly. It's tough when event doctors don't know what can and can't be administered. It's a pretty damning indictment on the EWS as an organisation.

It should come as no surprise that as soon as they introduce testing, cases pop up.
This one is extremely unlucky, but i don't feel it's any more unlucky than Rude's situation

Exactly. All forms of MTB competition will have competitors after an unfair advantage.

 

[born-again-biker]

None of us know what goes on inside team motorhomes & hotel rooms....and never will.
But on the surface the Rude/Graves case looks & 'feels' a bit different to Maes case.

The communication from all parties in Maes case reads a lot better. It's more like "we fucked up, we're gutted....and here's what happened, blow-by-blow..." The Doc even said he would do it the same way again, even if he knew the substance was banned, because his focus was on fixing the infection. The turnaround time in this case is quicker too - if you have nothing to hide or no stories to get straightened-out then you just release the info & start moving on. It's less suspicious.

The only things I find a little strange are:

1. He was absolutely smashing the rest of the field before he failed the tests. Coincidence? (that's just my internal cynic voice...and not really fair)
2. You're in the hot seat to win your first EWS title. Everyone is watching you because you're the man-of-the-moment. You're speaking to a Doctor (abroad) about more-than-one unknown drug prescription and you can't get phone signal to verify? But you take the drugs anyway...? Naive at best? But it's so easy to sit in my living room and judge that decision (like the forum wanker I am!)

The Rude/Graves case just seems more shady. I admit I prolly haven't read every article & statement about it. But there was a long period of silence from the team & athletes. Rudes twitter/insta "statement" was short on sequential details but long on emotive cliches IIRC. It seemed more like they were both trying to push the supplements envelope a little bit, or sail close to the wind, but just went one supplement too far (or got the timing wrong) and then just deflected the test result as best they could. I'm not going to be too critical of Graves - poor bastard is currently fighting the grim reaper, so bigger picture.

 

[moorey]

*smashing it both before and after test

 

[madstace]

I'm shocked by the absurdity of the Maes situation.

I can agree with this. Zero logic, reason or understanding applied.

This one is extremely unlucky, but i don't feel it's any more unlucky than Rude's situation

I can't agree with this take on it. Maes was in a situation whereby he was being instructed by medical officials how best to treat a serious wound. How taking their advice on how to not end up getting a leg amputated results in being treated as a doper is anything but absurd is beyond me.

The Rude/Graves situation is different in that there is a degree of guilt, albeit guilt of negligence which they've both openly and cooperatively admitted to. Rude proactively sat out of competition and accepted the decision without fuss. Graves has also been open about the situation but I think people have forgotten he has a much bigger fight on his hands.

All the above are far removed from what I would call a purposeful drug cheat, yet they seem to be paying a similar price....

 

[bear the bear]

All the above are far removed from what I would call a purposeful drug cheat, yet they seem to be paying a similar price....

No they are not. A first strike penalty is normally two years regardless of the cause of the failed test.
In all three cases the suspensions given have been very light.

 

[moorey]

No they are not. A first strike penalty is normally two years regardless of the cause of the failed test.
In all three cases the suspensions given have been very light.

As I read it, the governing bodies have all but acknowledged that MM is completely blameless, and gained nothing from it.
Any suspension in this situation is heavy, given his position.

 

[madstace]

No they are not. A first strike penalty is normally two years regardless of the cause of the failed test.
In all three cases the suspensions given have been very light.

But the above is absurdity in its own right. As moorey said, MM had zero intent and gain (unless avoiding possible amputation is cheating), and is acknowledged by all governing bodies, yet a sanction still applies? This is the exact kind of bullshit that adds weight to the argument against these bodies' involvement in the sport....

That being said, while I am a fan of the other 2 riders discussed, and believe there was zero intent, that's not to say their lack of diligence shouldn't have some penalties applied.

 

[sbm]

There was a comment on Pinkbike that dug into the timeline Sherlock style.

• 10th march, he gets prescribed a 7 day course of this stuff according to the doctor
• 17th march prescription ends
• The half-life of probenecid is 2 to 6 hours. After 4 half lives you have negligible amount left in your body.
• 19th march he supposedly has a negligible amount of probecenid in his blood
• 30th march in Tasmania, well over a week later....he tests positive?

So that's not clear for me how the drug would still have been in him.

 

[caad9]

There was a comment on Pinkbike that dug into the timeline Sherlock style.

• 10th march, he gets prescribed a 7 day course of this stuff according to the doctor
• 17th march prescription ends
• The half-life of probenecid is 2 to 6 hours. After 4 half lives you have negligible amount left in your body.
• 19th march he supposedly has a negligible amount of probecenid in his blood
• 30th march in Tasmania, well over a week later....he tests positive?

So that's not clear for me how the drug would still have been in him.

That makes things a little more grey, I'd say

 

[moorey]

Two words. Half life.

 

[Ultra Lord]

Two words. Half life.

But 4 half lifes equals two lifes? You got ya yores down pat mate but you’re maffs needs work

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[Sethius]

You assume he took the correct doses at right times, vast majority of people I know, myself included won't follow it or will try to stretch doses out. He might be a pro athlete, but sometimes pride and self denial don't mix well with taking the recommended doses on schduele. I feel like Maes is that kind of man, would rather be stubborn.

The Ucis choice to ban him is a message, however stripping the wins suck. The event where this occurred wasnt uci/ews based, so I feel it's unfair to expect the volunteer medic staff to know those criteria. Heck I'm greatful the local races have any medical support. Medic wouldn't know who he was from any other rider, just trying to do the right thing.