5010 V2

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
(You're a bloody soothsayer @Mr Crudley...)

This update's a bit all over the joint - so bear with me!

Backtracking a bit, I took the new Banshee Spitfire build for a ride Easter Friday up at Mount Macedon. For those that haven't been it's very raw, narrow hand cut trails that can be pretty loose and chattery and are often very, very steep. Although the coiled Spitfire should've been an obvious match, I just didn't feel comfortable on it the whole time. Didn't worry too much about it, just put it down to the trails having been pretty corrugated and my shoulder still not being back to full strength after snapping my collarbone a while back (and also trying to adjust to new, very powerful brakes in the Cura 4's).

Anyway, jumping forward again to the present - I realised yesterday I had enough spares to build my 5010 up to a complete bike to sell. Got to it, and had it all back together this morning. Took it for a quick ride around the yard to check everything functioned and thought "Bugger selling this!". Took all of about 2 corners to realise I f**ked up with the Banshee and it's too small for me. I promptly swapped all the goodies from my Spitfire over to this (sans the DHX2 which is the right size eye to eye, but would cause lower link to contact the frame at full travel). Front end on this feels so much better just from having a bit more room from the longer reach and slightly slacker HA, and it just felt super planted. It was also pretty obvious that the shorter chainstays make it super playful and easy to lift the front and flick the bike around.

I know this thing isn't going to climb near as well as the Spitfire, but those short loops around the yard showed me why I fell in love with this thing in the first place, and gave me a reality-check about selling it.

Jumping the timeline again - I also rode my hardtail a week or so back- which I loved at the time, but my back ached for the whole week afterwards so it'll be retired from active duty and go back on the trainer. Since then I've started planning to run two dual-susp bikes - one for milder trails that would otherwise be hardtail territory (if my back wasn't so stuffed), and building a "big bike" for the steep and hairy places like Macedon or Bright.

The upshot of all that was - I just accidentally (re-)found my trail bike!

View attachment 352349
Got to admit to entertaining thoughts of a custom front triangle for the Spitty, and making it my "big" bike. But we'll see if that pans out in reality...
Well, glad that is all sorted out now :)

Maybe if you put the 5010 and Spitfire is a room with some red wine, soft candlelight and some Barry White and you might get what you are really after.

I guess both bikes have their own character and might not do all you need. I know you have done quite a bit of adjusting but could more be the way out of this situation? Stem and saddle position etc. It might be to hard to line each one 5o compare and may not help in the end so swapping bolts ones will have to be it.

I see further tweakage in your future. I almost feel guilty riding the ye olde SC and it just feels right and I''m not messing with it.

Someone will say those 3 words soon 'New bike time'.

You have an excellent parts bin too. Hubba Hubba.

Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Well, glad that is all sorted out now :)

Maybe if you put the 5010 and Spitfire is a room with some red wine, soft candlelight and some Barry White and you might get what you are really after.

I guess both bikes have their own character and might not do all you need. I know you have done quite a bit of adjusting but could more be the way out of this situation? Stem and saddle position etc. It might be to hard to line each one 5o compare and may not help in the end so swapping bolts ones will have to be it.

I see further tweakage in your future. I almost feel guilty riding the ye olde SC and it just feels right and I''m not messing with it.

Someone will say those 3 words soon 'New bike time'.

You have an excellent parts bin too. Hubba Hubba.
Haha, parts bin bits were decent but weren't quite that fancy, it was just standard XT stuff. This setup was mostly pillaged from the Banshee.

With the 5010 I've fiddled with saddle height, saddle position (fore/aft & angle), different saddles, different length stems, stem height, different bars, bar heights, and different grips - so I reckon I've about exhausted that avenue and got a pretty solid feel of how I like this one setup! I did go from a 40mm stem to a 50mm this go around to weight the front a bit more, but that's about it. It's only the standard-ish seat tube angle that makes me not like the climbing on it. It just sits me a bit too far back, but the saddle is maxed out as far forward as it can go. It'll still be a great trail bike, I'll just have to work a bit harder on the climbs is all.
 

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
This is basically the problem, I keep chasing perfection and forget about reality. :p
Life is compromises :) At least you are at the front of the pack.

XT is a super parts bin. I recall bits with Alivio stickers somewhere in mine... Noooo...

You have done all you can I guess. Maybe a bike fitting or just accept that stability and 'poppy' thing that bike mags dribble about these when they go downhill is true but the trade off is in climbing.

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beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Hit up Youies today. Great day for it and had a great time on the bike. Quick impressions are the 5010 is definitely more demanding through rocks versus the Spitfire (you feel the edges more) which was expected, and is noticeably harder to keep the weight forward on steeper climbs (did a couple of random wheelie loop-outs going up rocks while readjusting to this, haha). This is simply due to the shorter chainstays on the 5010, but hey - the trade-off is the fun you get to have on all the flowy stuff - just pump, pedal, and pop over everything. Love being able to hang off the back and float the front over things with ease too. Stupid goofing around funtimes.

Main difference I notice with the new parts fitted is the Fox 36 is definitely what this build needed, as it just takes out so much of the jarring from the high-speed hits. It's weird but it makes the back of the bike feel better, you're just not as scared of the back getting kicked around by rocks as the front now has enough composure to ride out of it without feeling like you're about to meet the Grim Reaper.

Couple of minor tweaks planned - Ordered a new (lower stack) stem to bring the bars down a smidge, and a new DHF to replace this one which is starting to get fairly abraded. Going to try an Exo+ 2.5 this go around. Ffinally got around to ordering a 180mm rotor for the rear too.

Oh, and I'm planning to chuck the DHX2 in for a test at some stage soon too to scratch an itch I've always had with this bike. It might be amazing, or utterly terrible - haha. Time will tell!
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
The latest spec evolution:
  • Fox DHX2 - I suspect this will only make an appearance when riding up high country to smooth the high-speed chatter, feels a little too muted (lacking pop) for the local trails but will take it for a proper ride to confirm soon.
  • RWC shock eyelet bearings (will install in the DPX2 as well for easy interchanging).
  • Deity Copperhead stem - lower stack height which helped get the bars down a smidge, and not as brutally stiff as the Hope 'Downhill' 50mm stem.
  • Hope brakes went back on, but with the Formula rotors staying in place. I was finding the Cura 4's too aggressive a delivery for my mediocre upper-body strength at the moment*. Pulled the Hopes off a bike with Hope rotors and after bedding in the Formula rotors this combo actually provides a decent chunk more stopping power deep in the lever pull. Should be sweet while I try to find some speed and confidence to push a little harder again.
  • DHF 2.5 3C (Exo+ casing) - Has a visibly much smaller 'channel' between the centre and side knobs and slightly squarer profile compared to the DHF 2.6. I'm hoping this cures the vagueness I was having with the not-that-worn 2.6 in the transition zone. Obviously a new tyre's going to feel better, but hopefully a better long-term proposition too.

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*Cura 4's will get another chance at some stage with sintered pads and smaller rotors, but this Hope/Formula hybrid setup currently has the 'feels like home' gentle engagement of Hopes, with a bit more power deep in the pull from the Curas.
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Couple of minor tweaks from the last post:

  • Went back to the DPX2, but this time with roller bearings in the shock eyelets. DPX2 just matches the suspension kinematics so much better, the coil shock would've blown through the travel way too hard on any decent jumps/drops unless I put a really heavy spring on it - so air was lighter and funner. @Scotty T was onto it early too - holy smokes the roller bearings really bring the VPP to life and vastly reduces the feeling like it's choking in choppy terrain. Actually had to add a extra click of LSC to the DPX2 so I wasn't pushing too deep into the travel while pumping the trail (same air pressure as before the roller bearing) - and possibly could've gone another click if I wanted it feeling similar to where it was beforehand.

  • Also swapped the front wheel over to a spare I had, with a Spank Oozy 345 rim and Hope Pro-4 hub. I was finding the big Nextie 40mm carbon rim was just too punishing on the upperbody after returning from breaking my collarbone, and front grip still wasn't great even with the new tyre. I think a lot of this is down to changing the fork from a Fox 34 to Fox 36. I'm around 93kg kitted up and always found the flex in the 34's pretty noticeable, so I suspect the 34's were adding in a little compliance where the wheel wasn't. When I changed to the 36's it felt like riding a jackhammer (kind of exaggerated as I was also on the return from surgery so everything was felt a lot more!). The alloy rim and slightly lower spoke tension really bring the front small bump/chatter compliance back where it needs to be which really helps front-end grip and overall handling with the stiffer chassis fork.
Dusty post-ride snap:
353086


Random footnote - I'm not convinced on the Uberbike race matrix pads in the Hope calipers with Formula rotors - the back is fine so far, but the front seems to intermittently trap grit and not be able to clear it, which then makes some nasty noises and gives some quite inconsistent braking feel. Needs more investigation, but I think I'll try swapping some standard sintered pads in to try and eliminate one variable as a first step. Shame really, because when they run clean the brake feel is beautiful, and has very good amounts of power too (More than with Hope rotors). T.B.A I guess...
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
Scotty T was onto it early too - holy smokes the roller bearings really bring the VPP to life and vastly reduces the feeling like it's choking in choppy terrain. Actually had to add a extra click of LSC to the DPX2 so I wasn't pushing too deep into the travel while pumping the trail (same air pressure as before the roller bearing) - and possibly could've gone another click if I wanted it feeling similar to where it was
Yep stoked I started that thread and split the order with @Nambra to get the good tool. Definitely given mine a couple of clicks to the slow side. Super happy with it, just more pleasant to ride and rock solid. Climbed heaps of tech today with minimal effort. It also tracks so well through corners when seated I'm finding. They really shouldn't build 5k frames with those shitty bushings.
 

Nambra

Definitely should have gone to specsavers
Still got that tool, ready for the next person who needs it... totally agree that the roller bearing is a worthwhile improvement. Don’t the Deluxe Monarchs have sealed bearings in them now? Good news for newer bikes that spec them.
 

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
Still got that tool, ready for the next person who needs it... totally agree that the roller bearing is a worthwhile improvement.
I have to +1 to all of this too. I added some needle bearings shock bushings also to the Trc. I've had them on the Heckler for some now and they do wonders for small bump compliance. Makes a noticeable difference and you don't end up with that little bit of play when bushings wear.

What tool do you guys have? I removed my DU bushings with a Ebay shock bushing tool and a bit of patience and harsh language since they are always a bit of a PITA, so I might have been lucky. I also have VPP bearing tools that I can share in case anyone is in need.

@beeb Please keep this bike :) Love seeing the changes you have done.
 

Nambra

Definitely should have gone to specsavers
I got a RockShox DU bushing tool from Germany before geo-blocking - it was cheap to tack on to a larger order.

@Scotty T and I shared the cost of the RWC tool for the roller bearings, with a view to loaning it out to others who go down the same path and want to save some bucks. No doubt there are others here who have the tool that might be similarly minded.
 

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
I got a RockShox DU bushing tool from Germany before geo-blocking - it was cheap to tack on to a larger order.

@Scotty T and I shared the cost of the RWC tool for the roller bearings, with a view to loaning it out to others who go down the same path and want to save some bucks. No doubt there are others here who have the tool that might be similarly minded.
Good idea. you don't need these much at all but worth doing it with the proper tool. The socket trick can work but do risk misaligning/slipping and squishing a bushing.

The VPP bearing removal was easy for me apart from one that was hosed and just wouldn't come out. Had the classic outer race stuck in the VPP link problem even after using the right bearing puller. I started to use a file to weaken the worn centre of the outer race so I could try to pop it out which would have taken some time, well several years. I didn't have the courage to use a dremel or power tool there.

Took it to a machine shop and it was removed with a washer wedged into the outer race and then tapped out with a screwdriver. Great DIY task if it goes smoothly but utter hell if it doesn't.

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