Am I liable if Grandpa crashes his car (again)

[fatboyonabike]

take him down to a timezone arcade, tell him if he can get a decent high score on any of the driving games (his choice) he can have his keys back
he has No chance!

 

[safreek]

Unless mildura has changed since I lived there, I would not be encouraging a mobility scooter to drive 20km into town.
Lots of trucks on the road from fruit blocks and such.
I can't make a suggestion as to how to take the car, they are going to have to pry my licence out if my cold dead fingers

 

[ozzybmx]

Hard one as you have both Grandpas' welfare and the public's welfare in mind.

Maybe explain your position to the Police then drop both Car and Keys off to Uncle #2 (or Uncle #1), this kind of shifts the onus on to them... No point falling out with your family when he has 2 sons making decisions for him.

 

[flamin'trek]

Not a great position to be in, but we as a society need to step up and keep dangerous drivers off our roads. What if his next accident causes a fatality? Could be a pedestrian, cyclist.

Give the car back, but keep the keys, or give them to uncle 1.

 

[Zaf]

There should be a provision to call the police and request he be taken to ED as part of a "welfare check" where he will be assessed. In the statement I would explain these incidents and say that you have a reasonable concern he is a danger to himself and others, or even a damage to reputation (if he unwittingly commits a bit and run he's broken the law and could land himself in further strife).

Or if you're not comfortable, have a chat with his GP. They can have him sectioned pending an assessment for his license. Takes the pressure off you, and they'll have better inroads to making sure those assessments take place.

 

[rowdyflat]

Sorry Zaf I dont agree ED is not the place for a welfare check as the doctors there are usually busy, young, foreign trained and have little experience of life whereas an Occupational Therapist who regularly does elderly and disabled driving tests can give everyone an objective assessment.
I am not sure what "sectioned" means but if you want to stop him driving in Victoria you just contact Vicroads and have his licence cancelled until he is objectively tested.In NSW its Roads and Maritime Services they are both classic bureaucracies but we know what the outcome will be?

 

[Cardy George]

Thank you so much for all your responses. I'd kinda made up my mind on the plan of action. It was comforting to see so many others with the same point of view.

Alrighty, the outcome was a good one. The car is now back in my driveway, and for a 90yo shuffler it's an epic all day trek to make it out here from out there.

Didn't need to be the Family Arse with him just yet. Took it out there and showed him the damage. He arced up about not having his licence suspended, told him I wasn't dictating about anything along those lines, but I was taking the car back home to repair the damage. We then went out and physically showed him and it was there that reality set in. I think he read between the lines and kinda knows it's not coming back.

It wasn't pretty, but it did reveal the honest truth about staying independent (and a few other things) and opened the conversation about support groups and future living arrangements, especially when Grandma comes home from the hospital after her latest fall. THAT conversation is 100% on his sons and daughter.

We left on good terms, told him I hadn't finished with him, he still needs to show me how to cut and polish gemstones.

 

[Zaf]

I just checked with a few GP's who've had to do it. Self report to motor vehicle registry, that will force him to present for assessment for his license.

Best option is to have a frank conversation and have him do it himself. But failing that, you can make the report in his behalf. Over 75 he should be having a yearly medical review to maintain his license in any case.

 

[Dales Cannon]

Good first conversation CD. Nicely done.

 

[wkkie]

A "section" is usually reserved for people having extreme mental health issues and they either say they are going to kill themselves or will eventually do it by neglect, or that they are likely to do either to someone else. That's here in Victoria anyway.

I don't think that pa would apply to be sectioned in this case.

Good idea showing him exactly what happened damage wise, the picture of things usually kicks in the reality more with people.

 

[Skydome]

give his car back with missing spark plugs and a note in the engine bay somewhere saying "She's royally fucked" maybe he won't want to spend the extra cash on another car.

 

[Zaf]

Sorry Zaf I dont agree ED is not the place for a welfare check as the doctors there are usually busy, young, foreign trained and have little experience of life whereas an Occupational Therapist who regularly does elderly and disabled driving tests can give everyone an objective assessment.
I am not sure what "sectioned" means but if you want to stop him driving in Victoria you just contact Vicroads and have his licence cancelled until he is objectively tested.In NSW its Roads and Maritime Services they are both classic bureaucracies but we know what the outcome will be?

A "section" is usually reserved for people having extreme mental health issues and they either say they are going to kill themselves or will eventually do it by neglect, or that they are likely to do either to someone else. That's here in Victoria anyway.

Sectioning is under the Mental Health act, I had mentioned that originally, looks like I accidentally edited over it in my statement.
Anyone who poses a risk to themselves of others, or even a risk to personal reputation, can be sectioned for a short period of assessment, and then pending the severity of the case will go to a tribunal to evaluate how long the sectioning will continue for. I would say someone with diminished capacity to assess risks operating a vehicle would be reasonable enough grounds for at least ordering a welfare check through the police. Hence why I mentioned it as an option.
Your doubts about our health system notwithstanding, that's where a police issues wellfare check will deliver someone who is brought in on those grounds, and that's where they'll be assessed. An OT doesn't have grounds to assess someone who isn't voluntarily self presenting.

Anyway, as I said after speaking to a few GP's, they were saying that it usually comes through the motor vehicle registry for the state. If you can't get the grandfather to present himself, make a report on his behalf expressing concern and citing why; he will then require assessment for the license. In most states, drivers above the age of 75 have to have a yearly check to maintain their license in any case.

 

[wkkie]

But different in Vic @Zaf, no tribunal here and nothing about personal reputation comes into it. Just police making the initial assessment, they get taken to hospital and most of the time released again within the hour.

It's not just police that can report issues to Vic Roads...
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/licences/health-and-driving/medical-review-process/stage-1-reporting

The police, doctors, community members, family and friends can report their concerns about your medical condition or disability and its effect on your ability to drive safely. They can report their concerns by notifying VicRoads, and they can do this anonymously.

 

[Cardy George]

Just to add an extra layer of fur, I'm in Victoria, Grandpa lives in NSW.

Either way, there's now enough of us 'kids' making it too hard for him to get behind the wheel, he's starting to realise his driving days are behind him.

The challenge now is getting him to realise the pair of them will be far better off in some sort of assisted living arrangement

 

[Zaf]

But different in Vic @Zaf, no tribunal here and nothing about personal reputation comes into it. Just police making the initial assessment, they get taken to hospital and most of the time released again within the hour.

It's not just police that can report issues to Vic Roads...
https://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/licences/health-and-driving/medical-review-process/stage-1-reporting

You need to read the act a little better:
Section 4C of the Mental Health Act regarding what appropriates "harm to oneself"
Section 5 for how tribunals are held etc

Trust me, I'm pretty well versed and familiar with this one. I just had my brother brought in on a welfare assessment last week.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-X704F using Tapatalk

 

[hifiandmtb]

Just saw this vid & thought of this thread:

This would not have been an isolated incident. Those around him should have pulled his licence years before...

 

[Zaf]

Removed by user

 

[Binaural]

The challenge now is getting him to realise the pair of them will be far better off in some sort of assisted living arrangement

In between this might be at-home care, where someone checks in regularly to make sure everything's OK at home and helps with the house, especially if there's only limited family nearby. I think Anglicare and other providers do this.

Sadly, in my experience of rural grandparents, it's going to take an injury or near miss to convince them to move into assisted living. My nan only accepted the reality of the situation when she had a fall in the bathroom and was trapped there for many hours until my uncle fortunately dropped in.

 

[teK--]

Good on you for taking steps to intervene.. please have him taken off the road for everyone's sakes... But help him organise alternative way of getting around otherwise his lifestyle will suffer.

 

[Cardy George]

In between this might be at-home care, where someone checks in regularly to make sure everything's OK at home and helps with the house, especially if there's only limited family nearby. I think Anglicare and other providers do this.

Sadly, in my experience of rural grandparents, it's going to take an injury or near miss to convince them to move into assisted living. My nan only accepted the reality of the situation when she had a fall in the bathroom and was trapped there for many hours until my uncle fortunately dropped in.

He and Nanna still live in their house. She gets all sorts of assistance visits simply because she signed the paperwork. He doesn't because he's too stubbornly independent to sign said paperwork.