moorey
call me Mia
Who are you, and what have you done with Theo?
An Open Letter To Chain Reaction Cycles
- Thread starter heavyp
- Start date
carpetrunner
Likes Dirt
Misdirected Hate
Local wholesalers and manufacturers are screwing the LBS.
Local wholesalers for protectionism and anti-competitive behavior - blocking LBS's from using cheaper parallel imports through threats to block warranty.
Manufacturers; for silly supply chain strategies and subsidizing low prices to CRC/Wiggle/Evans/Ribble/Bike-components-de on-line retailers through high prices to our LBS.
CRC/Wiggle/Evans/Ribble/bike-components.de only exist due to the imbalance and gouging in the Local wholesalers/manufacturers' supply chain. The LBS is only a victim here.
The manufacturers/wholesalers may regret providing the environment for the likes of on-line retailers to thrive, pretty soon these on-line retailers will be pushing them around.
What can I do? For significant purchases I offer my LBS the on-line price +10% for GST +10% for being local - if they can't match it I tell them to talk to their wholesaler about it. Be happy and smile when my LBS performs a service using special tools I can't afford and don't have the skills to use.
- carpetrunner
Local wholesalers and manufacturers are screwing the LBS.
Local wholesalers for protectionism and anti-competitive behavior - blocking LBS's from using cheaper parallel imports through threats to block warranty.
Manufacturers; for silly supply chain strategies and subsidizing low prices to CRC/Wiggle/Evans/Ribble/Bike-components-de on-line retailers through high prices to our LBS.
CRC/Wiggle/Evans/Ribble/bike-components.de only exist due to the imbalance and gouging in the Local wholesalers/manufacturers' supply chain. The LBS is only a victim here.
The manufacturers/wholesalers may regret providing the environment for the likes of on-line retailers to thrive, pretty soon these on-line retailers will be pushing them around.
What can I do? For significant purchases I offer my LBS the on-line price +10% for GST +10% for being local - if they can't match it I tell them to talk to their wholesaler about it. Be happy and smile when my LBS performs a service using special tools I can't afford and don't have the skills to use.
- carpetrunner
What about the difference in overheads between an online business and a local retailer?
static_X3
Likes Dirt
There are 3 main aspects that determin where a customer decides to buy...
Price
Speed
Service
Generally a business cant offer all 3 but every business should be able to offer 2 out of the 3. My experience with CRC/Wiggle is they easily tick the first 2 boxes with the service side of things good but obviously they are restricted as to what they can offer.
However, they still provide better service than I have experienced at every bike shop i have been to in my city. Theses shops perform worse on the other 2 fronts aswell. How come i can get a part quicker from the UK than my lbs can?
LBS need to focus on speed and service if they are going to compete with the online models. That begins with keeping more stock of basic consumables putting some pride and care into their work and training their staff. I am appalled at the scene here, ive had work done by 2 of the best mechanics in adelaide (supposedly) and they both fucked up. The most recent example is I bought a $3k+ bike and they didnt tighten up the cranks, first drop and they spin on the spline. They offer no apology and seem annoyed that I have asked them to look at it and make sure its not damaged and then want to charge me $150 for a cassette i could get from crc for $50. wtf.
It's about selling new bikes and acessories and then forgettin about the guys that spend the $$$ and would otherwise keep coming back.
LBS have no one to blame but themselves. Tick 2 out of 3 boxes and i might just spend a little extra but at the moment i have no intentions of visiting a lbs again.
Price
Speed
Service
Generally a business cant offer all 3 but every business should be able to offer 2 out of the 3. My experience with CRC/Wiggle is they easily tick the first 2 boxes with the service side of things good but obviously they are restricted as to what they can offer.
However, they still provide better service than I have experienced at every bike shop i have been to in my city. Theses shops perform worse on the other 2 fronts aswell. How come i can get a part quicker from the UK than my lbs can?
LBS need to focus on speed and service if they are going to compete with the online models. That begins with keeping more stock of basic consumables putting some pride and care into their work and training their staff. I am appalled at the scene here, ive had work done by 2 of the best mechanics in adelaide (supposedly) and they both fucked up. The most recent example is I bought a $3k+ bike and they didnt tighten up the cranks, first drop and they spin on the spline. They offer no apology and seem annoyed that I have asked them to look at it and make sure its not damaged and then want to charge me $150 for a cassette i could get from crc for $50. wtf.
It's about selling new bikes and acessories and then forgettin about the guys that spend the $$$ and would otherwise keep coming back.
LBS have no one to blame but themselves. Tick 2 out of 3 boxes and i might just spend a little extra but at the moment i have no intentions of visiting a lbs again.
Last edited:
DeBloot
Feeling old
Holmes sums it up
Not by his ranting babble but in his attitude
The shop is king and the consumer is there to keep the shops running
He seriously expects customers, and overseas retailers, to bend to what the local retailers need
He should send his rant to Harvey and Soloman
He would get a much better response than the slammkng he received on FB and here
Just another little story
was really keen to spend $200 in jerseys and MTB pants on behalf of rellies for xmas
Went around the local shops - then into town
The only suitable pants I could find were some Fox ones for $180! (what a joke) and no suitable jerseys
7 working days before xmas I went to CRC in desperation- rellies needed something to put under the tree
I got some Royal pants and 2 jerseys + socks for under $200
All arrived 2 days before Xmas
Wakey wakey hands off snakey Holmsey
Not by his ranting babble but in his attitude
The shop is king and the consumer is there to keep the shops running
He seriously expects customers, and overseas retailers, to bend to what the local retailers need
He should send his rant to Harvey and Soloman
He would get a much better response than the slammkng he received on FB and here
Just another little story
was really keen to spend $200 in jerseys and MTB pants on behalf of rellies for xmas
Went around the local shops - then into town
The only suitable pants I could find were some Fox ones for $180! (what a joke) and no suitable jerseys
7 working days before xmas I went to CRC in desperation- rellies needed something to put under the tree
I got some Royal pants and 2 jerseys + socks for under $200
All arrived 2 days before Xmas
Wakey wakey hands off snakey Holmsey
Wellsey
Likes Bikes and Dirt
This doesn't stack up. Have you seen the size of their warehouses? Do you have any idea how many staff it takes to run warehouses that big?
dunndog
Eats Squid
I must say, without sounding melodramatic, some of the shit I've been served up by LBS's pretty much drove me to the likes of crc/wiggle. I also buy fairly regularly from TBSM and FTR.
I have had plenty of experiences where I have paid an LBS (supposedly reputable) top dollar for parts/ labour, and in one way or another they have fucked me over royally. I'm certainly not saying all LBS's are crap, many are not. I have recently found a new one with great guys working there who know their stuff, and as a result I've already dropped a decent amount of coin there and bought parts through them at substantially higher cost than the crc equivalent. They now give me a healthy discount and I top up their beer fridge now and then, and we're all happy. But without this situation I would rather buy parts cheap and learn to fit them myself through the millions of great you tube tutorials on the net than pay good money for poor service and attitude. A shop is there to offer you service and/ or product, they are not there to make you morally obliged to use them. If they can win your patronage they're doing their job. If they can't then they have no purpose. Crc and the like have obviously identified a market and excelled at exploiting it. Others have tried and failed, some have achieved mediocre success. It's not just a given that if you sell stuff online you'll become super rich and contribute to the death of the local mtb scene. There are several Aussie stores that were ahead of the curve and took the opportunity to evolve and are now doing well online whilst still serving customers face to face. Those making the most noise I suspect are those unwilling or unable to evolve in the same way. These dinosaurs probably will go the way of the dodo, but there will be others with more vision to take their place.
I suspect old mate has too much ink, too long a fringe and too tight a pants to see this vision clearly.
I have had plenty of experiences where I have paid an LBS (supposedly reputable) top dollar for parts/ labour, and in one way or another they have fucked me over royally. I'm certainly not saying all LBS's are crap, many are not. I have recently found a new one with great guys working there who know their stuff, and as a result I've already dropped a decent amount of coin there and bought parts through them at substantially higher cost than the crc equivalent. They now give me a healthy discount and I top up their beer fridge now and then, and we're all happy. But without this situation I would rather buy parts cheap and learn to fit them myself through the millions of great you tube tutorials on the net than pay good money for poor service and attitude. A shop is there to offer you service and/ or product, they are not there to make you morally obliged to use them. If they can win your patronage they're doing their job. If they can't then they have no purpose. Crc and the like have obviously identified a market and excelled at exploiting it. Others have tried and failed, some have achieved mediocre success. It's not just a given that if you sell stuff online you'll become super rich and contribute to the death of the local mtb scene. There are several Aussie stores that were ahead of the curve and took the opportunity to evolve and are now doing well online whilst still serving customers face to face. Those making the most noise I suspect are those unwilling or unable to evolve in the same way. These dinosaurs probably will go the way of the dodo, but there will be others with more vision to take their place.
I suspect old mate has too much ink, too long a fringe and too tight a pants to see this vision clearly.
thecat
NSWMTB, Central Tableland MBC
When I had a shop I had no problem fitting parts brought on line, for a fee. At times when I couldn't price match I'd even suggest to go that way
What really annoyed me though was when people bought the wrong thing or made a right mess of fitting it themselves then whinged about the price quoted to fix their mistake.
Or worse when they came in wanting to use out workshop and tools to fit the part purchased elsewhere then got offended when we said no. Seriously would you buy a frozen pizza then take it to a pizza restraunt and expect to be able to use their oven to cook it?
Or when people came in complaining of prices and telling us how much cheaper they got their helmet of crc then came in the next week asking for sponsorship for their scooter riding brat.
What really annoyed me though was when people bought the wrong thing or made a right mess of fitting it themselves then whinged about the price quoted to fix their mistake.
Or worse when they came in wanting to use out workshop and tools to fit the part purchased elsewhere then got offended when we said no. Seriously would you buy a frozen pizza then take it to a pizza restraunt and expect to be able to use their oven to cook it?
Or when people came in complaining of prices and telling us how much cheaper they got their helmet of crc then came in the next week asking for sponsorship for their scooter riding brat.
static_X3
Likes Dirt
Ha! With your permission I wish to quote this sentence for use in future arguments
mtb101
Likes Bikes and Dirt
you either have a protected distribution monopoly like it used to be (then there would be an open letter protesting how we pay up to 100% + for parts compared to OS) OR you have a free-market global economy like we have.
LBS will have to adapt, no business can survive if they can't be competitive on pricing.
Evans Cycles have done it they were a traditional LBS who have now gone online. TBSM have sort of done it as well.
There was one shop in Melbourne who was banned from running his ads in magazine due to his below monopoly industry pricing - thuckers.!!
Issue is distributors holding on to old world practices and their old world monopoly - and the LBS has no alternative buying options ...... yet!.
LBS needs to simply buy direct from OS and offer a more service based model, the days of rippoff markup are over!!!!!
And lets remember with the high availability of competitive priced cycling products the industry can only benefit from more people riding.
Now, might just go online and look for those carbon bars I want to order.
LBS will have to adapt, no business can survive if they can't be competitive on pricing.
Evans Cycles have done it they were a traditional LBS who have now gone online. TBSM have sort of done it as well.
There was one shop in Melbourne who was banned from running his ads in magazine due to his below monopoly industry pricing - thuckers.!!
Issue is distributors holding on to old world practices and their old world monopoly - and the LBS has no alternative buying options ...... yet!.
LBS needs to simply buy direct from OS and offer a more service based model, the days of rippoff markup are over!!!!!
And lets remember with the high availability of competitive priced cycling products the industry can only benefit from more people riding.
Now, might just go online and look for those carbon bars I want to order.
pharmaboy
Eats Squid
I reckon I can buy from at least 20 different online overseas shops for the same price (or better) than CRC - all of these other providers at some point were quite small, amnd probably many still are when compared to CRC - what does this tell me?
CRC's turnover is not the reason for low prices, and they dont get a better deal than other suppliers - they simply demand less margin for a product, and make sure it turns over because the price is good.
Plus, same as above - I ordered christmas stuff on the thursday before christmas, and it was delivered christmas eve! 3 working days - 3 frrakin working days from the other side of the world!
There is a new market though, for independant mechanics who work at an hourly rate, and just install/fix stuff.
CRC's turnover is not the reason for low prices, and they dont get a better deal than other suppliers - they simply demand less margin for a product, and make sure it turns over because the price is good.
Plus, same as above - I ordered christmas stuff on the thursday before christmas, and it was delivered christmas eve! 3 working days - 3 frrakin working days from the other side of the world!
There is a new market though, for independant mechanics who work at an hourly rate, and just install/fix stuff.
I think the local industry is failing on 2 fronts, service and prices but there are exceptions eg TBSM.
I tried to ordered some parts here. Gave the LBS the part number and was told it would take one week. Four weeks later LBS called and said the part was in. Better late than never i thought. Great, rush down to the LBS to have it fitted, only to find they ordered a 2010 model part that was not compatible with my 2009 fork, something I stressed when I placed the order. They said their mechanic knows exactly the part they need after opening the fork and they would get the right part in ASAP. Three weeks later got a call from LBS. Over the phone I asked if the part they got in was the part no I gave them. Guy said it was a different part no. He read out what was on the label, a spring designed for a 80/100mm fork. My fork is 120mm!! But he said it was ok as the mechanic knew what to order after opening my fork last time. WTF!!! I said are you seriously trying to tell me a spring designed for an 80mm fork is going to work in a 120mm fork, he had to think for a while before he answered me. Just order the f$&@ing part no I gave in the first place and do not attempt to think for yourself. Waited few more weeks and still no sign of the part so I decided to email the distributor. Got a reply saying the part would arrive soon. Email back asking for a time frame, no response. I thought stuff you guys and ordered over the net, arrived in two weeks, no hassles. I laughed when the LBS called four months later saying the part was in.
Another time, ordered a new shock and was told 3 days. Ended up being two months, even though the distributor confirmed it was in stock. Seeing the LBS stuffed me around I thought they might install the part free of charge. It was only undoing two bolts but no they would charge $30.
I have lost confidence in the LBS now so they will not be making any money off me for services. On the price front, TBSM is an example of how the LBS can compete. Their prices may not be the same as CRC but will come as close as they can, sometimes they can match it, with the obvious advantage of local warranty.
So moral of the story, LBS and local distributors can do a lot more to ensure their own survival.
I tried to ordered some parts here. Gave the LBS the part number and was told it would take one week. Four weeks later LBS called and said the part was in. Better late than never i thought. Great, rush down to the LBS to have it fitted, only to find they ordered a 2010 model part that was not compatible with my 2009 fork, something I stressed when I placed the order. They said their mechanic knows exactly the part they need after opening the fork and they would get the right part in ASAP. Three weeks later got a call from LBS. Over the phone I asked if the part they got in was the part no I gave them. Guy said it was a different part no. He read out what was on the label, a spring designed for a 80/100mm fork. My fork is 120mm!! But he said it was ok as the mechanic knew what to order after opening my fork last time. WTF!!! I said are you seriously trying to tell me a spring designed for an 80mm fork is going to work in a 120mm fork, he had to think for a while before he answered me. Just order the f$&@ing part no I gave in the first place and do not attempt to think for yourself. Waited few more weeks and still no sign of the part so I decided to email the distributor. Got a reply saying the part would arrive soon. Email back asking for a time frame, no response. I thought stuff you guys and ordered over the net, arrived in two weeks, no hassles. I laughed when the LBS called four months later saying the part was in.
Another time, ordered a new shock and was told 3 days. Ended up being two months, even though the distributor confirmed it was in stock. Seeing the LBS stuffed me around I thought they might install the part free of charge. It was only undoing two bolts but no they would charge $30.
I have lost confidence in the LBS now so they will not be making any money off me for services. On the price front, TBSM is an example of how the LBS can compete. Their prices may not be the same as CRC but will come as close as they can, sometimes they can match it, with the obvious advantage of local warranty.
So moral of the story, LBS and local distributors can do a lot more to ensure their own survival.
All this talk of life being perilous for the LBS. Is it really? Are bike shops closing at an ever increasing rate? Is there evidence for this? With over a million bikes sold IN Australia this year I fail to see a problem. In my local area alone there are at least 15 bike shops, at least four of these have opened in the last three years - so, growth rather than 'decimation' (as stated by Mr Holmes). Surely the people who search the net for the best price on parts etc were never really a major part of the LBS's profit? I know many people who use a bike just for commuting etc and know absolutely nothing about how it works - they simply use the LBS when things break. In fact the only people I know who use CRC etc are those who are really into the sport, those who are not just using the bike as a tool. The LBS doesn't just sell high end road bikes and high end MTBs, they sell city bikes, kids bikes etc etc. These must be a big part of their business, no?
Having said that, I am yet to see any of the local bike shops actively promote the service of "bought it online?, we can install it (for a fee)". There is a whole market there just waiting to be developed....
Having said that, I am yet to see any of the local bike shops actively promote the service of "bought it online?, we can install it (for a fee)". There is a whole market there just waiting to be developed....
HR7
Squid
^ Ain't that the truth. (speshboys post)
So many times I've been told "the part should be in by the end of the week"....sometimes months later still no sign. In defence of LBS's, unfortunately it's a well known fact that some Australian distributors are pretty crap, and due to factors of cost will only order parts (from overseas) when the need arises. Hence the looooong turnaround times....
I've bought a lot of stuff from CRC. They have the ability to have an incredible amount of inventory on hand due to the sheer size of their operation. That means top prices and quick delivery times.
I love top end bike stuff. I have a crap job that pays squat. I gotta make the most of my consumer $$$....
CRC for the win.
So many times I've been told "the part should be in by the end of the week"....sometimes months later still no sign. In defence of LBS's, unfortunately it's a well known fact that some Australian distributors are pretty crap, and due to factors of cost will only order parts (from overseas) when the need arises. Hence the looooong turnaround times....
I've bought a lot of stuff from CRC. They have the ability to have an incredible amount of inventory on hand due to the sheer size of their operation. That means top prices and quick delivery times.
I love top end bike stuff. I have a crap job that pays squat. I gotta make the most of my consumer $$$....
CRC for the win.
scblack
Leucocholic
It's not exactly heavy promotion, but Atelier DeVelo bike shop in Sydney CBD happily install items bought from other online retailers. Their website has this noted and hardly hidden.
I bought my high end carbon roadie frame from UK and they happily fitted all my current parts to that frame. And did an excellent job too. Only too helpful.
Although I live in Baulkham Hills, and work at Emu Plains, I will use them for any and all servicing I require.
Genius Josh
Likes Dirt
The last comment from Paul when I read it makes sense to me. Why don't more local bike shops embrace the change? Why not come out and say bring in the items you brought online in for fitting? or even charging for whole bike fits? and even (Shouldn't be crossing a line here) guidance with an online purchase this is where I see a real niche. I'm sure any business Crc or wiggle included would be happy to pay a spotters fee to anyone with buyers for their products. This could be easily set up via a discount code for the consumer. I would happily pay separately for all the great service and bells and whistles you get from the local bike shop assuming you do, but if I can buy it cheaper than they can from their distributor then their has to be another way. The last thing I want to see is bike shops going out of business, but they Like any other business needs to look at how they make their money and where they can get more of it. You just need to look at what's in it for you and how do you go about getting it.
they are also supporting a local bike race here in town, and the councils given them more money than any Australian based company.
