ANSTO closes Menai/Lucas Heights trails to the public

Slowman

Slowman

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Here's the thread on this forum http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?172325-Menai-Weekend-Rides/page25 but I raised this here for your awareness. The trails at Lucas Heights (what most of us call Menai) are mostly on ANSTO property. It has always been privately held land but the public have been allowed to use it for years, except of course the direct grounds of the ANSTO facility. MotoX riders first forged the trail network probably 30 years ago, maybe longer.

This is a real blow if you live in Sydney. I live within riding distance (Woronora Heights) and ride up from the Needles so this is a real bummer. RNP is closer but trails just don't match Menai in quality or quantity. Bummed and I won't be Robinson Crusoe either!
 
rotorub

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Slowman said:
Here's the thread on this forum http://www.rotorburn.com/forums/showthread.php?172325-Menai-Weekend-Rides/page25 but I raised this here for your awareness. The trails at Lucas Heights (what most of us call Menai) are mostly on ANSTO property. It has always been privately held land but the public have been allowed to use it for years, except of course the direct grounds of the ANSTO facility. MotoX riders first forged the trail network probably 30 years ago, maybe longer.

This is a real blow if you live in Sydney. I live within riding distance (Woronora Heights) and ride up from the Needles so this is a real bummer. RNP is closer but trails just don't match Menai in quality or quantity. Bummed and I won't be Robinson Crusoe either!
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Why whats the reasons behind it?
 
J

JBR

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Jokes aside, this is a huge blow to cycling on the southern side of sydney, and to all of sydney. The riding is unique in its quality and technical nature. There is nothing in comparison. Where now do I go for my all mountain rides?

What if any recourse do we have to address this issue? I dont think there is going to be any quick fix just quietly.

Would love to know the background behind the decision.
 
Slowman

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rotorub said:
Why whats the reasons behind it?
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See http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nat...-breaches-report/story-fn59niix-1226065977069

There was a recent Ministerial safety review, sounds like they're worried about the state of maintenance, maybe they are trying to keep people out of the blast zone ;-) Seriously though it could have been flagged as a safety issue for employees being hurt by MTBers on a lunchtime walk or perhaps liability issues arose as well. Though there are three levels of liability because there are 3 classes of entrant at common law:
1. invitee
2. licensee
3. trespasser
The highest duty of care is owed to an invitee and the lowest to a trespasser. We have a revokable license to enter land, for example to speak to the owner or have a look around perhaps as a prospective buyer. I'd have to research the case law but I think the purpose doesn't really matter. What matters is if you are told to leave you must do so immediately as at that point the license has been revoked and you are now trespassing.

Obviously signs saying the land is close to the public revokes any license before you even enter and makes any entry a trespass. Either way the duty of care towards licensees and trespassers is low and therefore so is the liability. There is pretty much none towards trespassers but it is very minimal towards licensees and a sign merely stating the land is not maintained and may contain both hidden and obvious dangers might be enough to discharge the duty of care owed.

Anyway I'm not so sure as the law does afford them some protection from claims of negligence, but that still doesn't stop legal advisers giving advice to stop all access to be extra cautious and provide as much legal certainty as possible.
 
Slowman

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martinpb said:
Bollocks - what i'm i supposed to do while i'm waiting for experiments to finish?!?!?!

Does anyone know exactly the area that's been closed off?

I'd be supprised if the report had a lot to do with this - it was started after they found out that the radiopharma group was prone to loosing bottles with 18F compounds in them...
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Maybe not directly but the article says there is another review being conducted too. Maybe one thing led to another? Anyway sounds like you work there Martinpb - I know another guy that works there he rides an MTB from Waterfall to Engadine down the Needles and up through Barden Ridge. I only know him as Dancin' Dave or Dave the Dancer through the Bushies - could he be this Dave Reid in the Age article?

BTW, if you are an ANSTO employee you are not a trespasser you're an invitee onto the land unless of course they issue a directive to employees to keep out of the trails too.
 
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crank1979

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Very disappointing.

Is anyone interested in trying to contact the relevant people (I don't know who they are) and trying to organise some discussion about access to the land with various user groups? Similar to the NPWS forums or how mtb representatives in the Northern Beaches area are working with Warringah Council on Manly Dam issues?
 
Slowman

Slowman

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JBR said:
...
What if any recourse do we have to address this issue? I dont think there is going to be any quick fix just quietly.

Would love to know the background behind the decision.
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We will find out why eventually I have a couple of contacts but the main one is away until end of the month.

As this is "private property" and not public land there was no need for consultation but for the fact that ANSTO is a government organisation there would be no hope. There is probably bugger all chance of changing much but because ANSTO is government controlled we might be able to create some political pressure.
 
Nerf Herder

Nerf Herder

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JBR said:
What if any recourse do we have to address this issue? I dont think there is going to be any quick fix just quietly.
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There was an attempt relatively recently by a new member on here to organise something ... he also had commenced talks with Sutho council. But that died a silent death.

Your options are to get organised and lobby both ANSTO management and Senator Carr, and anybody else that will influence the decision ... or take another one up the Keister.

Numbers speaks volumes ... and I'm happy to help with organisation and direction, but you need several or more dedicated locals to get involved and be the leaders and figure heads ... that are in it for the long haul.

I see the potential birth of SSORC (Southern Sydney Off Road Cyclists) ... :)

Go to the Mattress SSORC Trail Advocates ... looking forward to a bunch of PMs
 
Danos

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Hmmmm - that is not good news

Perhaps we get together and approach council and the local 'rag'. If we cannot gain access to the ANSTO land we might be able to use this loss as a means of getting something recognised and reserved for MTBers in the neighbouring areas.

<-- Bangor Resident - Menai is/was my local
 
rotorub

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Danos said:
Hmmmm - that is not good news

Perhaps we get together and approach council and the local 'rag'. If we cannot gain access to the ANSTO land we might be able to use this loss as a means of getting something recognised and reserved for MTBers in the neighbouring areas.

<-- Bangor Resident - Menai is/was my local
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agree good thinking.

I also like the idea of SSORC (Southern Sydney Off Road Cyclists),how does one start something like this?
 
crank1979

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Maybe we should start getting together a list of appropriate people to contact and their email and postal addresses?

• Local papers
• Local member of parliament
• Ansto Board
• Ansto environment and legal people

???
 
Wiffle

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Nerf and Crank; count me in if you want to go down the consult route. Has to be worth trying to save such an iconic riding spot. My locals just shrunk by 1...
 
Nerf Herder

Nerf Herder

Wheel size expert
I've set up an email address

ssorc at hotmail dot com

First thing is to email your interest in getting involved ... I'll be asking you what suburb you live in and what level of time and involvement you want to put in.

To manage expectations ... its been 2 years for BMORC and we still don't have anything ... sammydog and flynny can comment with regards to their stuff ... so don't expect this thing to be an over night reversal thing ... think Long Haul ... but you either do something or you ride with the traffic (not that there is anything wrong with that).
 
crank1979

crank1979

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Nerf Herder said:
To manage expectations ... its been 2 years for BMORC and we still don't have anything ... sammydog and flynny can comment with regards to their stuff ... so don't expect this thing to be an over night reversal thing ... think Long Haul ... but you either do something or you ride with the traffic (not that there is anything wrong with that).
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Or become an orange banded locust? ;)
 
Slowman

Slowman

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crank1979 said:
Maybe we should start getting together a list of appropriate people to contact and their email and postal addresses?

• Local papers
• Local member of parliament
• Ansto Board
• Ansto environment and legal people

???
Click to expand...
Good idea.

As for SSORC there is actually a SORC - got the jersey and everything!

I will make a submission to Senator Carr but I want to get a sense of the history of the place. Does anyone know when it was first ridden by MTBs? By my reckoning MX were in there and created a lot of the trails going back 30 years, so I'm guessing it has probably been going on for 20 years. A little history wouldn't hurt in the submission. My riding of the place only goes back about about 5 years.

Anyone been riding the place for 20 years? How far can we go back?
 
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