Anyone in Sydney wish to reply to these? NEWER LETTERS ADDED

[Gonzo]

Riding in the gutter is the stupidest thing you could ever do. It's just asking to be killed. firstly you have cars trying to drive right past you without giving you any room, plus riding next to the gutter means that when you copme to a side road or gutter you are very likely to get hit by cars. You very rarely see car drivers actually stop a the line. They usually stop about half a metre in front of it, right where you would be riding if you chose to be in the gutter. Then there is also the problem of car doors swinging out in front of you.

I got hit the other day while riding along a road with a huge cycle lane on the side. I was riding about 1 metre away from the land line where the traffic was. The car must'nt have seen me and swerved right in front of me clipping my handlebars. I was jst lucky not to end up under that guys tyres.

The only way you can be sure that car drivers will see you is by riding smack bang in front of you. If my choice is between holding up every car near me or putting myself in a situation where i have a very good chance of being hit, then guess what I am going to do?

You want a whole lane to yourself ? Do the speed limit.

When it says 60 on a sign it isn't a minimum speed limit it is in fact the maximum speed limit and so you can go any speed below that.

Yesterday while i saw someone pull out of their driveway then drive 4 houses down the road and stop there. It's people like this who are really clogging up the streets.

 

[Gutty]

No offence, but i have been run off the road so many times by people trying to sqeeze past me when i ride in the gutter. The only safe way to ride on sydney roads is to not let people get around you without having to move into the next lane, which means riding in the middle of the lane.

And if people decide to tail gate me and not give me space or start being abusive towards me beeping their horns, then i ride slower to piss them off.

Car drivers, just deal with it that not everyone wants to drive in a pollution machine.

That said, i don't ride on busy main roads as car drivers are just fucking nuts. I tend to ride back streets even if it takes longer to get where i am going.

As for running through red lights, car drivers do it, bus drivers do it, motor bikes do, taxis do it, pedestrians do it so i do it too. But if you run the red, you run the risk.

I will pay attention to all road rules the same day that all car drivers do, which is never.

-Matt

Matt, wouldn't it just be easier and safer for you to hop up the gutter for a few seconds and let that pushy motorist past ? In this situation i think footpaths should be used when possible. IMO peak hour traffic is no place for a cyclist......in the future in may be, but not in todays Sydney it aint.
If there are no cars around, run a muck for all i care.
I understand that some times bikes and cars have to share roads, my point is that if you are the lesser vehichle(and you are in size, weight, speed, safety) YOU are the one that needs to look out and do your best to get out of the "death machines" way. It might not be fare, but it might save your life one day. And don't think i'm just a preaching motorist here, i ride a moto on the road all the time. Believe me when i say that i ride VERY defensivly for my own benefit. As you've stated you simply can't rely on motorists in cars to miss you.......one day they won't. And for this reason i think cyclist have to stop thinking they have the rights cars do. By law they may, but common sense tell us that in reality, they don't. And until all motorist have atleast half an idea about driving thats not going to change. Letters to the paper or not........

To say you don't have to obey road rules because cars don't, and to say you can run red lights because cars do is just childish. I know for a fact that not all cars run red lights and disobey the road rules....I know because i'm one of the people that don't do it.
Just because Ivan Millat killed a bunch of people, doesn't mean you can too...... :wink:

Yes, i do believe most drivers on the road are tools too. Probably 90% have never had any kind of decent driving education as all drivers should.

Bottom line, play the arrogance game in traffic, and one day the car's gonna get ya. Not saying this is good, just saying it's fact.

 

[Gutty]

When it says 60 on a sign it isn't a minimum speed limit it is in fact the maximum speed limit and so you can go any speed below that.

I tell ya what, next time you're driving and there's cop behind you, slow down to 20-30km/h and see what he does.

Yes, you can be fined for driving too slow and disrupting traffic. :lol:

The only way you can be sure that car drivers will see you is by riding smack bang in front of you. If my choice is between holding up every car near me or putting myself in a situation where i have a very good chance of being hit, then guess what I am going to do?

Footpath is not an option ?? It's gotta be the safest of all doesn't it ?!?!

 

[Gutty]

I guess my point is, yes there are shithouse drivers and dickhead cyclists. But in the both case the mojority is ok. In the SMH the cyclists have even been called "urban terrorists", it's in a thread here somewhere. No body I know ride around with some hollier than thou attitude, other than large groups of roadies.

Jonny, i couldn't agree more.....only i believe that same attitude exists in single roadies too.
I don't have a problem with all cyclists...geez i often am one. I only have a problem with the arrogent types that believe cars should move for them.

 

[ona rampage]

3. Like I said before, people who are going that much slower than the flow of traffic need to take some responsibility for themselves, and GET OUT OF THE WAY. Ride in the gutter, or on the footpath (slowly if you have to) or right on the edge of the lane/road, just stop obstructing the majority of people just so that you can have your self-righteous ideals asserted in public. Like you said, there's a shitload more car drivers around than bike riders - why should the minority of travelers cause such inconvenience to the majority? Not that I think bikes have no rights on the road, but it's just courtesy to get the hell out of the way of other people. If it's physically impossible, well then everyone's gonna have to bear with it till you CAN move out of the way, but if you can move out of the way/ride in the gutter/whatever, do so.

I agree with S. on this one. I have been stuck behind two roadies one day, happy riding two abreast in one lane, blocking up the traffic, whilst they have a leisurely ride and chat. That is the minority making the majority bend to it's will, which is wrong.
Maybe there needs to be a differential here however, between the roadies (and here I generalise, but have to) who have this feeling that they own the damned road, and other riders who (like the majority on here) are just trying to use the road to get around (commute), and the occassional madness that we do for the city rides, ect.
But at the end of the day, regardless of who legally has the right of way, you're gonna go down in a battle between car and bike. No use having that sense of right when you are in hospital in a caste for 3 months....

 

[johnny]

[
Just because Ivan Millat killed a bunch of people, doesn't mean you can too...... :wink:

.

Now that's just nonsense, of course we can.

 

[johnny]

Anyway, build some bloody bicycle lanes on the busy roads and everybody will be happy. I'm sure I've said this before, but Amsterdamn is the perfect model for this. I can't remember ever waking up and seeing the dirty brown cloud that Sydney has each morning either! Not to mention all the lovely fit looking ladies

*edit: worst spelling ever

 

[Gutty]

Anyway, build some bloody bicycle lanes on the busy roads and everybody will be happy. I'm sure I've said this before, but Amsterdamn is the perfect model for this. I can remember ever waking up ond seeing the dirty brown cloud that Sydney has each morning either! Not to mention all the lovely fit looking ladies

Now ya talk'n !!!

Down Wollongong way we have a cycleway that runs pretty much from the centre of the city to the northern most suburb before you hit the freeway all the way along the beach(where possible). I gets used by hundreds, possibly thousands of cyclists every week. It's fun, it's safe, you can ride it pissed without the cops chasing you or having to worry about cars and funnily enough, we don't have bugger all of a problem with cyclist in traffic down here. It's not until i reach Sydney each day that i run into(not literally) the roadies.
More cyleways/paths can only be a good thing for this entire country. To be totally honest, if the cycleway wasn't there, i'd probably ride my bike 50% less.......especially in summer.

 

[Cave Dweller]

To say you don't have to obey road rules because cars don't, and to say you can run red lights because cars do is just childish. I know for a fact that not all cars run red lights and disobey the road rules....I know because i'm one of the people that don't do it.
Just because Ivan Millat killed a bunch of people, doesn't mean you can too...... :wink:

.......and thats just like saying that all bike riders hog lanes and run red lights. Don't you love stereotypes :roll:

As for moving out of the way of cars behind me, no, i will not move and i don't give two shits if i make them 2 minutes late for work. They can deal with it, vent their frustration at me if they like but i really don't care about them, i care about me and my safety on roads. Anybody who rides in gutters or rides within 1 meter of parked car doors is asking to be hit one day, either by a car trying to squeeze past or someone opening there door on you.

That said, i avoid riding on main roads like the plauge and don't like riding in heavy traffic, but if i have too that is the tactic i take.

-Matt

 

[Cave Dweller]

My mate was riding down glebe point road the other day and was hit by a motorist. He was riding in the middle of the lane, doing 15kms under the speed limit (which was 50km/h, so he was riding 35km/h) when a car comes up behind him, starts tailgating him, beeping his horn and generally being a knob. My mate keeps riding at the same speed and this guy trys to run him over! No shit, happened just outside bad manners cafe. My mate got the number plate along with a couple of eye witnesses and went to the cops. He will be charged with leaving the scene of an accident and maybe with assult with a deadly weapon. The stupid thing was there where 15 cars stopped at red lights 25 meters down the road. Was he in that much of a hurry to get into the traffic cue??????

True story. No lie.

So, based on this i propose that all drivers be banned from using the roads as it is obvious that every car driver will hit a bike rider if given the chance. Ban the lot of them and make everyone ride bikes, then i will drive a car and run THEM of the fucking road :twisted:

 

[Gonzo]

I only have a problem with the arrogent types that believe cars should move for them.

But then don't you think it's a bit arrogant to expect all cyclists to just move out of your way on to the footpath whenever a car comes up behind them. Cyclists can also be in a rush.

 

[Gutty]

.......and thats just like saying that all bike riders hog lanes and run red lights. Don't you love stereotypes :roll:

ah yes, very true........but i never said that. :idea:

 

[Gutty]

I only have a problem with the arrogent types that believe cars should move for them.

But then don't you think it's a bit arrogant to expect all cyclists to just move out of your way on to the footpath whenever a car comes up behind them. Cyclists can also be in a rush.

I see you haven't replied to me about your original post, you've simply decided to find somthing else i've written and use it to stir more crap.....dickhead.. :roll:

No i don't expect all cyclist to move out of the way, but i do expect them to have some kind of sense when playing in peak hour traffic. Sad but true, they will come off second best every time. IMO the smart thing to do would be to avoid contact were possible.......hogging a whole lane to yourself in peak hour isn't exactly trying to avoid contact is it ??

Look, you guys wanna risk your lives, fine, go right ahead. But rest assured, if you wanna play chicken with cars, hogging a lane to yourself, and riding offensivly in traffic, one day your gonna get messed up.
As i've said, it might not be fare, but it is fact.

 

[johnny]

[IMO the smart thing to do would be to avoid contact were possible........

Absolutely.

In an attempt to resolve the difference of opinion here, can I suggest that we all unite under the banner of "cycle paths" as Gutty and I have previously proposed? IMO, this would resolve 99.9% of any gripes from either side. Considering the speculation of late that petrol prices will continue to rise, I think this suggestion is more appropriate than ever!

 

[Gutty]

Bravo Jonny !! :wink:

IMO all new arterial roads should be designed with a bike lane in mind. Especially around the CBD. But until that day comes i think the best thing any cyclist can do is be a bit defensive.

Be the cat in a room full of dogs, watch your back, and do your best to move if you're gonna get bitten. Don't sit idle and let the dog bite then whinge about it.......

 

[Cave Dweller]

I hope petrol rises to over $3 per litre, then people would start to car pool and take public transport, then there would be plenty of room on the roads for bike riders to exercise their lawful right to ride in the middle of the lane without fear of retribution from fucked up, temperamental, rude pollution machine drivers.

-Matt

 

[Cave Dweller]

i think the best thing any cyclist can do is be a bit defensive.

That is why it is safer to ride in the middle of the lane rather then in the gutter. Make the driver think about having to overtake you like a car rather then squeeze past you.

 

[Gutty]

i think the best thing any cyclist can do is be a bit defensive.

That is why it is safer to ride in the middle of the lane rather then in the gutter. Make the driver think about having to overtake you like a car rather then squeeze past you.

Well i guess thats a fare enough point Matt. Personally i'd get on the footpath if it were possible. But thats just me.......... :wink:

 

[Gonzo]

I see you haven't replied to me about your original post, you've simply decided to find somthing else i've written and use it to stir more crap.....dickhead.. :roll:

Well if you are going to be so pedantic then i shall answer your other post
although part of the answer was tied up in my other post. I see guys driving at that speed all the time on the roads and have never seen anyone pulled over for it.
You find it annying getting caught behind cyclists because you are in a rush to get somewhere i can only assume. Well if i am in a rush then it is much faster to ride on the road than to have to weave through pedestrians. Plus the fact that the footpath around where i live is ripped up by tree roots and the like. If i want to take an extra 30 minutes to get where i am giong then i will use the footpath, any other time i will use the road.

 

[Gutty]

So you see guys purposefully driving at 20-30km/h in peak hour traffic ?? Sorry, but i don't believe you.
Just because you see these guys drive slow and not get booked doesn't mean it never happens. Check the road rules down at your local RTA. You can be booked for disrupting traffic by driving too slow. It possibly never even happens(as one would expect), but it can.

Not anoyed because i'm in a rush, simply because i believe it's pretty much just selfishness(and dumb) on the riders behalf.

I'm done with this topic, i think you all know my opinion and where i stand. If any of you'd like to discuss this further, give me a yell and we can do it over a couple of beers ey ?? Much more fun that bashing away at this keyboard.

Ride safe guys. It really is in YOUR best interest.