Are all parents selfish enironmental terrorist arseholes driving us in to oblivion?

No Skid Marks said:
Are they bringing Mars, Saturn? The one Pizza is all there is, there is no making Pizza out of nothing and there aint no living off Uranus when it's gone.
Sorry for hogging the mike. I'm off to the fuckwits thread to pay some dues.
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You may have just kicked off a self-fulfilling prophecy right there.
 
Haakon said:
most people plod along, buy a lot of crap, make a lot of rubbish, breed a bit and die.
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But isn't this the natural way of things?

slippy said:
We're only a drain on the earth if we continue the old selfish ways of our forebears. If we wisen up and do things better we could become an asset to the planet rather than a drain on it. It's largely to do with outlook and the choices you make.

I used to think like Haakon. Then I had kids of my own and realized that most of what I'd been saying was just bravado because I feared I couldn't be a good parent. Took the benefit of hindsight to realize it though.
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I'll one-up ya; I too held similar views and realised that the problem isn't too many people its the way we live. If we can transition to a more sustainable existence then our numbers have negligible relevance.

I came to this conclusion prior to fatherhood :peace: , which I am still yet to attempt.



PS - I moved all this talk out of the original thread as it didn't seem an appropriate place for it.
 
Timeline of these posts is exactly the same as it was in the previous thread, they automatically move in order of time posted.

Bermshot didn't make any posts after Haakon was asked to expand.
 
johnny said:
Timeline of these posts is exactly the same as it was in the previous thread, they automatically move in order of time posted.

Bermshot didn't make any posts after Haakon was asked to expand.
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I get it, accountability of a post remains, so long as you don't delete it.

So bermshot, your post will remain.


You can't delete history...
 
Fools!!! The earth is a nursery planet. The whales are the children of an intelligence we can't comprehend. Soon the whales wil be birthed to infancy from their woomb - the ocean. When they do this we will be their food. When their parents return we are in great trouble of we have not yet been eaten!
 
pink poodle said:
Fools!!! The earth is a nursery planet. The whales are the children of an intelligence we can't comprehend. Soon the whales wil be birthed to infancy from their woomb - the ocean. When they do this we will be their food. When their parents return we are in great trouble of we have not yet been eaten!
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So we're all just plankton-in-waiting?
 
mtb1611 said:
So we're all just plankton-in-waiting?
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Well I have to agree I have seen some people that shouldn't have kids

They also think that there kid is special and can do anything they want the amount of kids with no manners and think that the world owes them something is stupid

I think this generation is basically cotton wool generation, I wonder if they able to survive.
 
steve jobs' pancreas said:
If people didn't have kids where would we get the Chinese 8 year olds from to make all the stuff we like
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there is no connection between the iPhone model number and the average age of workers in the factory. mkay

thanks johnny for pulling this out of the original thread, we quickly shat all over the original thread and distracted from a serious discussion
 
My god there is a bunch of defensive, self righteous folk in here. The bloke just doesn't want to have kids, give him a break - he never said you can't, he quite maturely and rationally outlined why he doesn't think it's a good idea.

Personally, I agree with Haakon. The world has >7 billion people on it. It really doesn't need many more. There is also a lot of creedence to someones comment about the fact that it's more an issue surrounding how we live, not how many do it, and whilst i agree with that as well i'm not idealistic enough to believe that it will change any time soon. So population will continue to increase in an unsustainable manner until humanity descends into a firey apocalyptic wasteland. Lovely.

I am beyond excited to have children - I can't wait to be a dad. The reason i haven't wanted to commit to doing so yet is because i can't reconcile the moral dilemma of thinking it's selfish. If that makes me a negative, depressed individual with no idea what i'm missing then great. Sounds like a good way to be. Just let me be that way, breeders.
 
bardynt said:
Well I have to agree I have seen some people that shouldn't have kids

They also think that there kid is special and can do anything they want the amount of kids with no manners and think that the world owes them something is stupid

I think this generation is basically cotton wool generation, I wonder if they able to survive.
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No argument regarding the decline of manners and common courtesy; you need to however consider that this is also prevalent in adults, not just children. As for the age of entitlement you're spot on there! The notion of actually having to work for what you want and earn it, rather than have it handed to you on a platter is one that is certainly lacking from a lot of people nowadays - not just children, but young adults. In my experience a major lesson that appears to be missing from the child-rearing repertoire of many parents is that of teaching their child to accept responsibility for his/her own actions and decisions. Again in my experience this is way more prevalent amongst white Australians, many of whom go to absurd lengths to justify the poor conduct and decisions of their children.

Yes, a lot of parents think that their children are perfect, largely due to thinking with their hearts rather than their heads (unsurprising given the emotion and therefore hardly objective perspective that parenthood can "provide") however I'd say that these parents are NOT the majority, it's just that in the vein of the squeakiest wheel getting the oil (lube?!) they're the ones we hear and hear about most often.
 
I'd just like to object to the new thread title... It completely misses my point and panders to the self rightous element here.

A more appropriate title might be - "Parenting is optional and a personal decision"
 
Haakon said:
I'd just like to object to the new thread title... It completely misses my point and panders to the self rightous element here.
Y6 y
A more appropriate title might be - "Parenting is optional and a personal decision"
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But everyone reads a book by its cover. I wouldn't have opened that thread, i opened this one. Pandering to the pc pandemic doesn't generate discussion.

Glad this got moved, this discussion really didn't belong in the old thread.
 
mtb1611 said:
So we're all just plankton-in-waiting?
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I'm thinking more krill...remember some whaleshave teeth.

Global warning is the sign man! As he incubator warms up those cows of the ocean are going to come looking for revenge and food. Once the ocean is empty it is our turn. It won't be long. We need to produce more children now in the hope that there is enough humans to outlive the maturing whale population whilst waiting for their parents to return. Bermshot was right!!! You imagine how pissed these whale parent super beings are going to be when work out how many of their offspring we have slaughtered...the times of trouble are upon us.
 
Haakon said:
Yeah, not wanting to start a war either - most parents get quite arced up over this one...

Short version is that your genetic material is in no way special, and the planet and humanity as a whole would be infinitely better off you didn't spread it around. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many monkeys on this planet and wanting your own mini me rather than looking after one of the numerous unwanted ones floating around is selfish in the extreme.

I get that its all driven by hormones and the crocodile brain. But procreating and adding another drain on the world is doing no one any favours. It is selfless in respect to the child only, at the expense of everyone else.

(ps - i'd like a rebate on all those taxes i pay to support your kids...)

Anyway, that is all. I dont harrass people about it. I just live my life kid free happily and am comfortable with that, and understand that not everyone agrees. Whatever floats your boat.

Luckily as a guy I dont get hassled too much about it - my partner routinely is treated poorly by breeders who think she is a bad person for not wanting kids... That makes me mad.
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I agree with a most of what you say. I thought long and hard about the resources any children I had would use and if the planet would be able to provide for them and everyone else if I decided to have them. I had 2 in the end anyway.

20 years ago when I was at uni we were told the planet could support 6 billion people. Seeing the problems occurring now I'd guess that was a fairly good estimate and the planet has been running over the redline for a few years now.

If we act now to curb our consumption and destruction we may be able to drag out the dominance of the human race for a bit longer. If we don't that period will be shortened.

I'd guess that the solutions for the futures problems will largely come from the kids of today and tomorrow. I'm hoping there will be a lot less short sighted fools among other them.
 
Wow! This is a thread and a half.

There seems to be people coming at it from all different angles; environmental, emotional, social, scientific and species.

I think my view aligns with that of Haakon. I think.

But I will be quite specific in the framing of my opinion, I am looking at it as a case of evnironment vs. native species and sustainability.

Long story short, the human species is breeding out of control.

The thing about every other species on the planet is that there is a natural order and balance to keep it in check. This this is why environmentalists loose their minds about introduced species.

Humans, are an introduced species pretty much everywhere on the planet at this point, and we are also the dominant species everywhere we are introduced. This means we have a massive impact on the areas we are introduced into and it's a negative impact. Always a negative impact.

The other issue is that as a species, we are not longer progressing, but rather regressing. This is on a genetic level.

You look at every other creature on the planet and it's survival of the fittest/smartest. This ensured that the numbers of a species are sustainable for that environment AND it ensured that with each generation, the genetics of the species improve.

However, with humans, we've managed to cheat nature. We are not able to sustain individuals, actually no, MASSES of our species that have genetic defects. I can't find the article now, but I recall reading something about that if all modern medicine disappeared tomorrow, the human population would very quickly 're-adjust'.

So we are a species that is dominant in all environments we are introduced into, we are a species that has a significant negative impact on the environments we are introduced into and we are a species has overcome all of the natural ways other species populations are controlled at a sustainable level.

LONG story short, unless something changes we will destroy our environment and ultimately ourselves.

So coming back to the topic of 'are all parents selfish environmental terrorist arseholes driving us in to oblivion?'

Yes and no. Yes because procreation is a base function to ensure the survival of the species. As a species we are in no danger of extinction therefore the decision to procreate is for personal reasons.

Given the loose definition of selfish is 'chiefly concerned with one's own interest, advantage, etc, esp to the total exclusion of the interests of others', this is exactly what the decision to have offspring is. People want to have a child for their own, self serving reasons. Technically selfish.

In terms of the 'no' component of the answer, I don't believe that all parents are terrorist arseholes. While out need to procreate from a species perspective has long being lost, our instinct to hasn't.

Every species on the planet has two base drives; survive and procreate. So really can't blame people for having kids.

For me personally, I don't particularly have a desire to have children as I don't really see the point, but at the same time I don't not want them either. Given my wife REALLY wants them, I see a couple mini-Jesters in my near future.

So maybe I've a selfish arsehole too.
 
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