Banshee Suspension Bushes - a real technical question...

retroenduro

retroenduro

Likes Dirt
edit to title...with exploded diagrams now too!

Hey all

With Banshee no longer importing into Aus im at a loss where to get suspension bushes from (aside from getting my brother in the UK to buy them and send them over). Does anybody know?

Anyway more importantly ive heard on the grapevine that some banshee owners have had brass bushings machined to replace the nylon/plastic ones that seem to wear out so quickly. Apparently its effective as a more durable solution. Has anybody on RB heard of this or has had it done? If so where did you start? did you just take your parts to a machine shop or what?

Im really keen to explore this as i love my bike (Banshee Rune) but hate having to change the bushes so often especially when they are so hard to get hold of.

Thanks
 
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Ivan

Ivan

Eats Squid
I sent the Australian wholesaler for IGUS an email last year to try and order a few off of them, but they never returned the email, so I can only assume that my order was too small for there business.

I think in the USA you can order IGUS bushings online from the IGUS distributor, so maybe if you use a mail forwarding company you can order them direct. They are dirt cheap that way.

Brass sounds like an easy way to wear down your frame and axles.
 
retroenduro

retroenduro

Likes Dirt
Ivan said:
Brass sounds like an easy way to wear down your frame and axles.
Click to expand...
hmmmm good point.. so the bushes are standard parts then? not specific to banshee? am i right?

or actually maybe i heard it wrong and people had machined the internal axles out of stainless? They are alu at the mo.
 
Urban DH

Urban DH

Likes Bikes and Dirt
retroenduro said:
hmmmm good point.. so the bushes are standard parts then? not specific to banshee? am i right?

or actually maybe i heard it wrong and people had machined the internal axles out of stainless? They are alu at the mo.
Click to expand...
that is not necessarily true, while a 300 grade stainless or chromoly axle may have been utilized its not a necessity, it all comes down to the aluminium alloy compund the frame is, on the mohs hardness scale brass is scored a 3 and aluminium(Depending on the compound) is 2.5-3.5 if its a high tensile sort of compound you could easily get away with brass bushes but if its normal aluminium it may wear slightly more rapidly, i'm not familiar with the likage bushing on banshees but if you could provide a pic or diagram of the part and an aluminium grade i'd be happy to crunch the numbers for you
 
retroenduro

retroenduro

Likes Dirt
Urban DH said:
that is not necessarily true, while a 300 grade stainless or chromoly axle may have been utilized its not a necessity, it all comes down to the aluminium alloy compund the frame is, on the mohs hardness scale brass is scored a 3 and aluminium(Depending on the compound) is 2.5-3.5 if its a high tensile sort of compound you could easily get away with brass bushes but if its normal aluminium it may wear slightly more rapidly, i'm not familiar with the likage bushing on banshees but if you could provide a pic or diagram of the part and an aluminium grade i'd be happy to crunch the numbers for you
Click to expand...
Its 7005 alloy and here is an exploded picture of the suspension components

rune_explode[1].jpg

im totally up for getting something a little more hardwearing machined if its possible...also what about getting the frame hard anodized? will that prevent wear?
 
D

dug8713

Likes Dirt
retroenduro said:
Its 7005 alloy and here is an exploded picture of the suspension components

View attachment 240956

im totally up for getting something a little more hardwearing machined if its possible...also what about getting the frame hard anodized? will that prevent wear?
Click to expand...
Very interesting problem, and pretty common by the looks of things! This is my take on how to approch this problem (this is based on my opinions and knowledge. If something is incorrect, please comment!)

Perhaps a bronze alloy would be more applicable to bushes? Should be able to source bronze bar stock and can be easily machined to a nice bearing finish with tight tolerances. Judging by the pics in the link, you''ll need an alloy that is easy to machine to some super tight dimensions

If you were to go down the custom machined bushing route, there's a couple of things that I think you MUST MEET!:

TOLERANCES: Extremely important! Will affect how the end result will perform!

Bushes by nature need to be tight. I am guessing you will have several critical dimensions you'll have to meet in order for this bushing to perform. They are the Inner Diameter, Outer Diameter, Overall Length and Flange Thickness.

The outer dimension is critical as what you should be after is a "light press fit" (will have to confirm dimensional tolerance). I.e. the bush should be somewhat easily pressed into your frame and not rotate (fix with Lock-Tite if you have to!). This way the bronze bush will not rotate in the frame and wear out the aluminium bores and introduce slop into the suspension.

The inner dimension is also critical. This is where the load should be applied. It should be a "light running/clearance fit" (think H7) so that the bolt can easily slide in/out & rotate without having to be pressed in. This is critical in minimising slop in this interface.

Lastly, the overall length and flange thickness is important as it will determine the clearance of the linkages and how much you can preload the system when you bolt it all together.

SEALING: From what I've read, sealing seems to be a problem with the current Banshee bushes. I would advise something like an O-ring sitting in a recess in the flange of the bushing. Having a sealed bushing will stop dirt wearing the bore.

Anyways, enough ranting for me. Hopefully I've been clear-ish on what I'm trying to get across. PM me if you need more info. I'd be glad to help!
 
Ivan

Ivan

Eats Squid
The bushes are not a custom banshee size. They can be sourced from IGUS - the product codes are in the picture above. http://www.igus.com/wpck/default.aspx?page=quickorder

People have had issues with the plastic bushes wearing through the axles and frame, so in my opinion any metal bush will be a disaster. Remember, the axles are also aluminium.

The bushing problems have been discussed over on mtbr.com at length. I found that axle preload was most important in ensuring long bush life, and plush(ish) suspension.
 
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Craftworks

Craftworks

Craftworks
retroenduro said:
edit to title...with exploded diagrams now too!

Hey all

With Banshee no longer importing into Aus im at a loss where to get suspension bushes from (aside from getting my brother in the UK to buy them and send them over). Does anybody know?

Anyway more importantly ive heard on the grapevine that some banshee owners have had brass bushings machined to replace the nylon/plastic ones that seem to wear out so quickly. Apparently its effective as a more durable solution. Has anybody on RB heard of this or has had it done? If so where did you start? did you just take your parts to a machine shop or what?

Im really keen to explore this as i love my bike (Banshee Rune) but hate having to change the bushes so often especially when they are so hard to get hold of.

Thanks
Click to expand...

Hey there,

Have you sent Banshee an email direct about shipping something to Australia? I can ask Jay in person for you tomorrow about sending you something if you like..

Cheers

KLG
 
D

dug8713

Likes Dirt
Ivan said:
The bushes are not a custom banshee size. They can be sourced from IGUS - the product codes are in the picture above. http://www.igus.com/wpck/default.aspx?page=quickorder

People have had issues with the plastic bushes wearing through the axles and frame, so in my opinion any metal bush will be a disaster. Remember, the axles are also aluminium.

The bushing problems have been discussed over on mtbr.com at length. I found that axle preload was most important in ensuring long bush life, and plush(ish) suspension.
Click to expand...
Ah I see, I do agree with you there Ivan. There's a reason why the stock bushes aren't metal of some description. Having metal bushes made and installed the way I described will prevent wear on the frame pivots, but will wear out the aluminium axles..

I think I also saw that thread too, some pretty serious wear on the pivots etc.
 
T

terrorfirma

Squid
Hey guys....
http://bansheebikes.com/contact-us
just go there...
Freeborn is no longer the distributor for Banshee and is in the UK so sourcing them from the factory will be faster, easier, and cheaper.
Banshee will handle all service, warranty, or any other queries directly in Australia so even though Barspin is no longer distributing the brand it doesn't mean everyone is left hanging.

Anyway i hope this avoids any frustration in trying to source parts or trying to make them yourselves.
 
retroenduro

retroenduro

Likes Dirt
terrorfirma said:
Hey guys....
http://bansheebikes.com/contact-us
just go there...
Freeborn is no longer the distributor for Banshee and is in the UK so sourcing them from the factory will be faster, easier, and cheaper.
Banshee will handle all service, warranty, or any other queries directly in Australia so even though Barspin is no longer distributing the brand it doesn't mean everyone is left hanging.

Anyway i hope this avoids any frustration in trying to source parts or trying to make them yourselves.
Click to expand...
Ive sent a couple of emails in the past and never got anywhere........
 
merc-blue

merc-blue

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I had a Rune for quite some time and here is what I came up with.
1- Manitou M-prep is really good or slickoleum/slick honey, but you need regular re greasing if going on muddy rides and hosing the bike down with any sort of cleaner
2- Tension is so unbelievably vital on these. you need a good tension wrench, clean threads with fresh loctite and some grease under the heads of the bolt to get the tension spot on.

In regards to their service when I had my Rune I emailed banshee about it and I got a call (albeit late at night) from Keith Scott who was away at interbike at the time, but we had a nice chat and he promised to email me some info when he got back to the office. 2 weeks later i get an email with all sorts of drawings and specs etc. best service I have had from anyone in the bicycle industry, My LBS wont even call me when they have stuff in for me.
 
retroenduro

retroenduro

Likes Dirt
OK time for an update on this which may help other rune owners...pass on the love i say

So after several emails and promises of 'ill put a set out in the post too you' nothing eventuated from the guys at head office in Canada (i tried on three different occasions and have the email chain to prove it) so i set about seeing if my Brother who lives in the UK could help...after all they import them there too under the brand Mythic, plus he lives round the corner from the importer in the UK...

Anyway so the importer has shut! well their Esher branch anyway so he emails the guy and gets a response 'oh yeah ill get the French importer to send them to you'

Nothing happens (you can see where this is going cant you...)

Anyway he follows it up nad gets the response 'oh i forgot to send the guy an email, ill do it tonight'

more tumbleweeds...:Cry:

So this carried on for a couple of weeks when i though fuck it, they list other AUSPAC importers all over Asia on thier website im going to get in touch with them direct.

So i email this importer, email back the next day 'yep we have bushes, the new type(???) for the whole bike, axles and everything, all in stock its xxx amount, wire the cash and ill DHL them to you. I thought, well they are listed as an official importer, they are cheaper than what i could get them for anywhere else so fuck it ill take a risk, so off to Western Union.

Anyway had a good old chat with the bloke about these 'new types' of bushings...turns out after customer feedback about the longevity of the axles and bushes etc Banshee now get the axles hard anodized and also supply sacrificial nylon washers to protect against dirt/water ingress. Apparently they last alot longer...sounds good eh?.

Anyway just got an email from this fella saying the money came through all good and bushings are in the post. Hope to get them before Friday although i got them sent to my partners work in Melbourne but she is now working out of Brisbane (D'oh) so there will be some shuffling around of parcels before i can finally check them out.

So where am i going with this? Well if they come through OK we (distinguished Banshee Custodians) may have a good viable alternative to...er...nothing, no service, abandonmnet by the brand, whatever! If this all works Ill post up the details of this guy and you can all rest peacefully knowing that you can a) get spares again and b) get a updated kit that will last longer.

Oh and obviously being an importer he will have the new Rune frames in by the end of the month (nooo be strong, resist the temptation to buy another bike).

Fingers crossed!
 
J

jazza_wil

Likes Dirt
i was on a rune riding and racing a heap in whistler for 2 seasons. from bike park laps to xc/enduro races to all day epics, mud and dust, as you can imagine with that amount of riding iv have had to deal with issue as well. the original bushings lasted for ages without any problems, i did look after them and made sure everything was clean. then things got a little loose so with trident imports in vancouver it was easy to get a bushing kit. these ones didnt last very long at all and the lower mainframe pivot came loose all the time and had to tighten mid ride/race. i sent some emails to keith from banshee and he pointed out some things to me. the bushings had worn into the axles so new bushing would never fix my problem and over tightening just made it worse. so he sent out the new and improved Keronite coated axles and new bushings. so far so good.
i really liked the idea of the bushings but as we found with the Legend Mk1 protos they just don't work out. the legend mkII on bearings lasted me 2 bike park seasons before replacing the bearings and was problem free. hopefully the new and improved rune will be the same!
 
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