beginner bike (800 bux)

[josh]

My Giant Yukon is still going.....6 years later..I just went for a ride on it before!

 

[peep]

My beginner bike is a pretty standard one (Norco Bushpilot) but its slowly being worked up into something to be proud of.

My experience told me whether you buy new or 2nd hand you may need to make little changes so the bike suits you and your riding better (new stem/bars/pedals) so think about leaving a bit of money or scamming some more for things like that.

 

[Eazy]

lupine is very right, and I'm sure Dicky and all the other sales-people on the site can relate to this:



I don't know why it is, but some women (men as well, but usually women) seem to feel that they're safer if they go into a shop with a man, even if the guy hasn't ridden in 10 years and has no idea about current technology. It's quite sad really, shops aren't big scary places where men hang out and grunt, in fact I more often that not find it easier to talk to girls, simply because they're more willing to listen and take in what you're saying, while many men feel that they will be inferior if they make a decision based on what the shop monkey says. Come on people, we're not used car salesmen!

Background to the project
A 1997 report titled Do Women Pay More?1 highlighted several aspects of the marketplace where women consumers experience discrimination in relation to the purchase of goods and services. The report found that not only did women have to pay more than men, they received less in return.

This report was a catalyst for the Commonwealth and State Women’s Advisers to develop a theme of ‘Women as Consumers’. At their March 1998 conference, it was agreed that each state would nominate an industry or issue identified in the report where women experienced discrimination or differential treatment and develop policies and strategies to address that issue in their state. source.

I would think that woman having experienced lesser service whilst paying more are more cautious in their buying decisions with products and services they may be unfamiliar with. Taking a big talking bozo along is probably their idea of minimising chances of being ripped off or being talked into something that is not suitable for them, or out of budget. While bike shops you've bought items from may treat their customers irrespective of sex with due courtesy other shops and organisations offering goods and services have not.

 

[Eazy]

As always when buying second hand. Caveat Emptor. If you're dealing with someone off a forum, get verifiable contact details, not just a mobile phone and a hotmail/webmail account.

 

[wombat]

I would think that woman having experienced lesser service whilst paying more are more cautious in their buying decisions with products and services they may be unfamiliar with. Taking a big talking bozo along is probably their idea of minimising chances of being ripped off or being talked into something that is not suitable for them, or out of budget. While bike shops you've bought items from may treat their customers irrespective of sex with due courtesy other shops and organisations offering goods and services have not.

Oh, I understand the reasoning behind women bringing a "talking boz" along with them. I was simply trying to explain that the industry as a whole today is pretty good, sure there's still some bad apples, but sus the people out, don't automatically assume that just because they're trying to sell you something that they're trying to rip you off.

I wasn't speaking from experience dealing with salespeople, I was talking from experience as a salesperson dealing with customers, and I guarentee you that bringing along a bloke with a big ego and little or no knowledge will not help you get a better deal. All it does is make it more difficult for the salesperson to acertain exactly what you are after.

Believe it or not, I'd be much happoer with a happy customer on a good bike, they tend to be much less hassle down the track, especially in an industry which relies so heavily on word of mouth.
I do get the impression though that you might have copped a raw deal sometime, care to explain a little?

 

[Dicky]

Oh, I understand the reasoning behind women bringing a "talking bozo" along with them. I was simply trying to explain that the industry as a whole today is pretty good, sure there's still some bad apples, but sus the people out, don't automatically assume that just because they're trying to sell you something that they're trying to rip you off.
I wasn't speaking from experience dealing with salespeople, I was talking from experience as a salesperson dealing with customers, and I guarantee you that bringing along a bloke with a big ego and little or no knowledge will not help you get a better deal. All it does is make it more difficult for the salesperson to ascertain exactly what you are after.

Believe it or not, I'd be much happier with a happy customer on a good bike, they tend to be much less hassle down the track, especially in an industry which relies so heavily on word of mouth.
I do get the impression though that you might have copped a raw deal sometime, care to explain a little?

i completely agree. the idea that we're there as a salesperson to help you out may be strange concept, understandably so if you've been ripped off or given the wrong advice by someone before.


so someone comes in, wanting to buy a bike. no wait, even better, a lady comes in, wanting to buy a bike, bozo with ego in tow. this situation can be sorted pretty easily most of the time, regardless of gender/age/bozoness - just give them the basic facts about what each bike is supposed to do, and if the ego crops up with 'hey cool it's got shockies, this one over here with 8" travel is going to be more comfortable than that hardtail" or something, then you can usually take whatever has been said, more or less agree with it, and explain why their idea was a good one (but maybe for a completely different style of riding). this usually allows you enough time to then talk to the customer, and use what they actually want to do with the bike to suggest something better.
a bit of technical info about the bike or two in question, like the difference between rear suspension designs, why you'd go with air or coil sprung or the benefits of a mech disc vs a V brake, usually puts bozo in his place as well, but without seeming like you've told him to go and sit in the corner. of course it's not always this simple, and you do sometimes get some stubborn individuals (Dad knows all, wants to buy $3000 XC duallie for son who's busted a BMX and two hardtails, simply because the one on the floor was the right size for him, had suspension, and was bright red), but the theory still works more or less the same way. bozo probably ends up learning something new as well, if only that he doesn't know quite as much as he thought he did.

selling an expensive rig is always fun, and obviously better for the day's profits and overall yearly takings of the shop, not to mention the relationship between us and the suppliers when we go and order another 6 of them, but i'm much more interested in getting people sorted with the right bike, and having them know why it's the right bike, and out on the trails and playing about with the rest of us. if that means they are recommended a more expensive bike than they planned to buy, then there is always an accompanying (and understandable) explanation as to why. on the flipside, sometimes they don't need to spend as much as they thought they did, and i know on more than a few occasions i have talked people out of buying more bike than they need to.

yeah, there are still some people working in bike shops who sorta missed out on all of that, and are just trying to sell you a full LX/XT dual suspension rig with hydro discs because it's going to be more comfortable on that rough concrete on the way to the shops, as well as get them a pat on the back from the shop owner for making X amount of dollars, but these idiots seem to be dwindling in numbers nowadays - simply because the rest of the industry doesn't like to be associated with dodgy individuals.
this includes the suppliers, who have the ability to cut the power off, so to speak.

bad apple story - i used to work in a certain bike shop. less than 100m away was another bike shop.
admittedly both shops sold fairly low-end stuff, but the story still makes its point effectively.
on a disturbingly regular basis, we'd get stories from customers of the other shop - obvious warranty concerns not being honoured, retail prices of up to 40% more on exactly the same item as carried by a shop 5km away, bad repair jobs, more work being done to the bike than the customer asked for, then not being allowed their bike back without paying the extra.
it got to the point where the shop's major bike brand supplier was getting so many complaints about this one guy, their trade rep went in to the shop, revoked the shop's trading license for his line of products, collected the current stock, then more or less walked down the road and offered it to us. this was a few years ago now, and the shop i used to work in has moved, due to a major rebuild of the shopping complex it used to be in (some of you know which two shops i'm talking about now) - but even now, they still get the same stories about the dodgy shop, which remains where it always has been.

sometimes the only way to suss out the dodgy types is to go to a completely different shop, ask the same questions, say 'oh but at the other shop they said...' and see what the reaction is - and of course it may well turn out that the first shop knew what they were on about, and the second one hasn't got a clue. or vice versa, etc etc.


as per my rudimentary buying a bike post, the most 'ripoff-proof' way to go about buying anything - not just bikes - is to ask lots of questions (no matter how simple or technical they may be), get a heap of information from several different sources, maybe check it out with someone you know and trust (who ISN'T a bozo ) then act on the best option.


as for copping the raw deal, count me in on the 'care to explain'. it may help people who find themselves in a similar situation from suffering the same outcome.

...and i'd just like to express my feelings of :evil: :x :? :shock: towards anyone who uses or has ever used the word 'shockies' in normal speech with no sarcasm involved.

 

[Eazy]

Oh, I understand the reasoning behind women bringing a "talking boz" along with them. I was simply trying to explain that the industry as a whole today is pretty good, sure there's still some bad apples, but sus the people out, don't automatically assume that just because they're trying to sell you something that they're trying to rip you off.

I wasn't speaking from experience dealing with salespeople, I was talking from experience as a salesperson dealing with customers, and I guarentee you that bringing along a bloke with a big ego and little or no knowledge will not help you get a better deal. All it does is make it more difficult for the salesperson to acertain exactly what you are after.

Believe it or not, I'd be much happoer with a happy customer on a good bike, they tend to be much less hassle down the track, especially in an industry which relies so heavily on word of mouth.
I do get the impression though that you might have copped a raw deal sometime, care to explain a little?

Wombat, I was commenting on why I thought some women would take along these guys, not debating whether it is right or wrong they do so. Fact is and as quoted from source earlier, that women are overcharged and receive a lesser service than males which is bound to lead to caution. Once bitten, twice shy. Perhaps the trend is changing and the culture of making a fast buck at the expense of the female consumer and consumer in general is changing, I don't know. It would be interesting if some of the female members of the board chimed in to offer their perspective. It is hard to judge the character of a salesperson let alone any other stranger from a brief encounter, so it always pays to be wary. This is being prudent, especially if goods in question are rather expensive.

i completely agree. the idea that we're there as a salesperson to help you out may be strange concept

You're fighting an uphill battle in the mind of the customer. While your customer service and advice may be exemplary, more often than not they've come across salepersons more interested in a quick buck and commission than real interest in what customer wants or needs. My pet bugbear is the hard sell. I've said I'm not interested in the "upgrade", I have a budget, I've researched the item in question yet it takes repeated negatives to filter in their minds that I am content with original purchase.

My experience with a Rigid One. I got to talking to the bike shop owner/sales guy, and I expressed an interest at some point upgrading to Marzocchi DJ jumping forks. He then proceeded to point to me to some Kona at twice the cost with Marzocchi xcr's?. I had heavily emphasised the words, "at some point", "budget" a number of times. It was rather annoying that not only did the word "no" not seem to exist in his current vocabulary but I also got a sense that he knew less than I did and I know jack about MTB's. Very disconcerting. The word is "budget" may be a amorphous to some but for me a set amount means a set amount. It means that I am already giving myself the maximum allowance that I can afford, not that I am being too cheap to pony up. I get the word quality, I endorse buying quality. I simply cannot however cough up more than I can afford. No means no. When I say I have a strict budget, it means I have a strict budget. I'm sure we've all come across this at some point. It leaves you feeling a little more wary that what is not being offered is real customer advice but an extra commission fee for the salesperson.

The best way to avoid a "raw deal" is do your research and not impulse buy. I've listened to the experience of others and have taken it on board and thus far, have not had a "raw deal". I aim to keep it that way.

 

[lupine128]

it was amusing watching the reaction of the young sales guy a couple of years ago when my then wife and i went to look at a new bike for her.
we were looking for a new road moto, and she knew what she wanted.
she went in and asked about the cbr900 blade they had for sale and was told that unless it was for me to ride, it was too much bike for her, and maybe she should look at the 250.
she said it was for her, handed over her licence and asked for a test ride.
after about 5 minutes of convincing the guy said ok, got the keys, and off they went.
the circular rolling burnout, followed by the 4th gear power mono to rolling stoppie at the lights was apparantly only the begining.
when they got back from 15 minutes of knee down madness, the guy got off his bike, went into the back and disappeared.
he was replaced by a very nice and helpfull older man who proceeded to piss himself laughing when claire explained that she grew up on the isle of mann and has been racing since she was 7, has competed in the TT 6 times, and does stunt work for the british movie industry.
assumptions are funny.

 

[wombat]

it was amusing watching the reaction of the young sales guy a couple of years ago when my then wife and i went to look at a new bike for her.
we were looking for a new road moto, and she knew what she wanted.
she went in and asked about the cbr900 blade they had for sale and was told that unless it was for me to ride, it was too much bike for her, and maybe she should look at the 250.
she said it was for her, handed over her licence and asked for a test ride.
after about 5 minutes of convincing the guy said ok, got the keys, and off they went.
the circular rolling burnout, followed by the 4th gear power mono to rolling stoppie at the lights was apparantly only the begining.
when they got back from 15 minutes of knee down madness, the guy got off his bike, went into the back and disappeared.
he was replaced by a very nice and helpfull older man who proceeded to piss himself laughing when claire explained that she grew up on the isle of mann and has been racing since she was 7, has competed in the TT 6 times, and does stunt work for the british movie industry.
assumptions are funny.

Hahaha!!! Brillant!!! That's the best way to deal with people like that. Just like eazy said: once bitten, twice shy. It works both ways.

 

[Dicky]

teehee haha love it!