Best SUV?

[No Skid Marks]

Newer cars are shit these days. Years ago the oil weights were like 20w 50, then it went to like 15w40. It is not uncommon these days for a modern vehicle to run a 5w 30. Service scheduals have blown out from every 5000km to now being required only every 15000km.
You never used to have to top up the oil between services, infact you could streach the service out for a few thousand more km and not use a drop of oil. Now with newer cars you can burn 3litres of oil every 5000km and this is considerd normal even if it has only a low 60000km on the clock. Things used to last, engines used to do 350-450000km if looked after, before even looking like it was rebuild time. Now you'll only do around 250000km and things are worn out. It's a pure pain in the ass and the pocket to be putting 5+ litres of synthetic oil in to top up between services. Things just don't last like they used to.

Driving conditions play a part too. Lot more start stopping now. I'm sure if you drove a new car at exact same speeds and excellerates at the same speed and changed the oil at 5000km on both. The new car might well be more durable. But you have more power on tap now, and more traffic, so......
I'd rather see the focus more on durability. As mentioned, the environmental impact of shorter lifed cars is way worse than fuel consumption of old bangers.
But back on track, the OP still doesn't have a car. Cash stash is dwindling though. Anyone want a Diesel VW van?

 

[Minlak]

Correct.

The other issue with high octane fuel is that is has a higher density (and more energy per unit volume) and so many carburettored engines (or fuel injected without O2 sensor) ran rich on it.



Ideally servicing should be based on distance/duty conditions. Certainly not such a coarse and meaningless measure as time.

The old 6 month interval was driven by the fact that carby engines ran dirty and used mineral engine oil continued to deteriorate (break down chemically) even when the engine was not running.

That also occurs with synthetic oils to a degree but at a much slower rate, especially with modern clean running EFI engines.

Subaru's have 12,500km service intervals, unless towing or very short stop/start motoring (although we did 10,000km services on our Subie as oil had that I'm well past my best look, feel and smell).

Because the dealer asks for a service outside the schedule doesn't mean you have to do it.

My mates in the trade tell me there is a direct correlation with service intervals greater than 10,000km and sludge (oil broken down and contaminants) build up.

That's why so many manufacturers specify regular use of proprietary oil cleaning products (which have a cost) to allow the longer oil change intervals.

If you want to maintain your warranty on a new Subaru with out a massive shit fight you do have to have 6 mth or 12500km services.

 

[Flow-Rider]

If you want to maintain your warranty on a new Subaru with out a massive shit fight you do have to have 6 mth or 12500km services.

Yes, but you don't have to take it back to the dealers for servicing and get charged like a wounded bull. I remember when I bought my WRX, I didn't have enough time to take it back from where I purchased it from for the first service and I got stitched $400 for some young kid to drop the oil. They then tried telling me I needed a cabin filter and a wheel alignment on a brand new car, Yeah right, fuckoff.

 

[Minlak]

Yes, but you don't have to take it back to the dealers for servicing and get charged like a wounded bull. I remember when I bought my WRX, I didn't have enough time to take it back from where I purchased it from for the first service and I got stitched $400 for some young kid to drop the oil. They then tried telling me I needed a cabin filter and a wheel alignment on a brand new car, Yeah right, fuckoff.

No one said you had to see the dealer but you still do too many services no matter who does it

 

[redbruce]

No one said you had to see the dealer but you still do too many services no matter who does it

By what measure? What you want or what history (evidence) says you need.

Ask consumers what service interval they would like and majority would say as long as possible.

Ask the auto design and chemical engineers the same question and.......they will define the limit based on the demonstrated (and precursor symptoms) failure point (to use your quote).

BMW and some others have done extensive testing and use the results to develop relatively sophisticated models for engine requirements and integrate that to the cars predictive capability (and then not necessarily for all conditions, such as a minor market like Aus). On a BMW, the maximum 25,000km interval is only possible with almost purely autobahn driving, and then on Mobil one (or equivalent) premium ester based oil (gold cap) at ~ $$90/5L. Even then BMW 6 cyl engines hold upwards of 6.5L to do so.

At the end of the day there are a range of aspects that affect the whole of life costs to the owner. Service costs are only one.

 

[Ivan]

6 month service intervals would really put me off a car if I was looking at new ones.

 

[redbruce]

6 month service intervals would really put me off a car if I was looking at new ones.

This is unfortunately what is driving too many of the long service intervals offered (risk assessment focused on average first owner lifespan and engineering evidence for the short term). Ford was the first Australian manufacturer to offer 15,000k service intervals to address flagging sales on Falcons in the 1990's. Unfortunately most ran out of oil before that and so Ford enlarged the sump capacity purely to get the cars to the first service without the oil warning light coming on.

Surely the context is how many km's and at what sort of duty cycle, you do in the period and what life you expect/accept from the vehicle.

If you are on a lease 3 yr cycle it may well be a different answer to those who can only afford to buy second hand (like the OP and myself).

 

[Ivan]

Surely the context is how many km's and at what sort of duty cycle, you do in the period and what life you expect/accept from the vehicle.

If you are on a lease 3 yr cycle it may well be a different answer to those who can only afford to buy second hand (like the OP and myself).

Agreed, but I haven't heard any evidence that cars with 12 month service intervals are hand grenading early. 12 month service intervals have been around for a long time now (10+years?).

I would expect (assume) that cars designed to have longer service intervals would have sumps with higher volumes of better spec oil, with better filtration. I don't do a lot of KM's per year (10K), so having to run the car in for a service 6 months would be a pain, especially at the rates mechanics charge.

BTW, My wifes Outlander has been a good reliable SUV we've owned for 7 years. If I were buying a new cra, and had a short commute I would be looking at the plug in hybrid model (PHEV).

 

[redbruce]

Agreed, but I haven't heard any evidence that cars with 12 month service intervals are hand grenading early. 12 month service intervals have been around for a long time now (10+years?).

All the 12 month offers are also limited to 15,000k (BMW and Mercedes run by mileage only).

So depending on use, may still be less than 12 month service interval (annually I do: I do 15,000 in the old girl Commodore, 10,000km in the old girl Honda VFR800 (has 270,000km 0n clock) and around 20,000km in a work vehicle).

Early demise, no, prematurely, ask your local independent mechanic. Answer is generally yes.

Recently son's girl friends Astra (9 years old and serviced at 15,000k intervals) met its end (no oil pressure and had to be stripped and cleaned out and advice was to get rid of ASAP) at 110,000km due to sludge build up. Mechanic said more common than you would think. But then it was well out of warranty and not the original owner.

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-news/the-truth-about-car-servicing-costs-20140724-zvhwu.html

http://www.caradvice.com.au/55844/car-servicing-the-costs-the-intervals-the-answers/

 

[stirk]

Service intervals should be based on more than km travelled or time, as red said duty and load plays a huge part. The manner in which the car is driven also plays a part. Dealers schedules are the easy option to mandate for warranty but unfortunately for either the car or the person can be costly.

 

[ianganderton]

My 2010 Silverado had an oil "useage" meter in the computer. This apparently took into account a wide range of factors including time, mileage and temperature

 

[Flow-Rider]

Agreed, but I haven't heard any evidence that cars with 12 month service intervals are hand grenading early. 12 month service intervals have been around for a long time now (10+years?).

I can tell you with assurance that the problems with these cars that get serviced with longer intervals is that the real problems normally arise when the car gets older, normally when it gets owned by the second or third owners. I remember when the first lot of cars had the longer service intervals and it was common for gummed up hydraulic lifters on the camshafts and blocked oil pick ups. The Daewoo Cielo was a fine example of this and what made it worse is that people wouldn't bring the car in before the due service they would leave it till way later. It's ok to service a car a little late when the interval is 5000kms but when it is more, it creates problems. Once a car is out of warranty a dealership couldn't care less what happens to the engine.

 

[No Skid Marks]

VW Tiguan? Oh diesel.
also looking at a Golf wagon, not SUV but will get a SUV or 4WD when we sell other car.
anyone got any info on either?

 

[Haakon]

As mentioned, the environmental impact of shorter lifed cars is way worse than fuel consumption of old bangers.

This is certainly the intuitive response and is right to an extent - but is in no way a blanket rule. The very vast majority of any vehicles total life impact is in its use and fuel consumption, the manufacturing takes up a much smaller percentage of the total impact than you'd think.

If you assume say a 200K kms life, it is in fact better to scrap an old thirsty car and replace it with new. And thats just greenhouse impact, the improvements in air quality/health related emissions is a no brainer - hand's up who's been stuck behind something old thats burning oil? That stick is hard to miss and yes it is very bad to be breathing in!

 

[No Skid Marks]

Bought a Tiguan. Hope I don't end up in the fuckwit thread.
2ltr turbo diesel with 90000ks on clock.
Not sure why. It's tiny but seems pretty cool so far.
will see if a bike fits tomorrow, but does have tow bar.

 

[Fred Nurk]

Bought a Tiguan. Hope I don't end up in the fuckwit thread.
2ltr turbo diesel with 90000ks on clock.
Not sure why. It's tiny but seems pretty cool so far.
will see if a bike fits tomorrow, but does have tow bar.

The boot space is abysmal on those things, but apart from that they're not too bad. DSG or manual?

 

[John U]

Bought a Tiguan. Hope I don't end up in the fuckwit thread.
2ltr turbo diesel with 90000ks on clock.
Not sure why. It's tiny but seems pretty cool so far.
will see if a bike fits tomorrow, but does have tow bar.

How much and how old if you don't mind?

Watch the tow bar weight capacity (as opposed to towing capacity). The Skoda yeti, which I believe is similar, can't handle a large amount of weight on the tow bar.

 

[scblack]

How much and how old if you don't mind?

Watch the tow bar weight capacity (as opposed to towing capacity). The Skoda yeti, which I believe is similar, can't handle a large amount of weight on the tow bar.

the tow bar limit is the reason I did not buy either the Tiguan or Yeti. The Tiguan has just 100kg towball limit and the Yeti an abysmal 75kg.

 

[stirk]

This is certainly the intuitive response and is right to an extent - but is in no way a blanket rule. The very vast majority of any vehicles total life impact is in its use and fuel consumption, the manufacturing takes up a much smaller percentage of the total impact than you'd think.

If you assume say a 200K kms life, it is in fact better to scrap an old thirsty car and replace it with new. And thats just greenhouse impact, the improvements in air quality/health related emissions is a no brainer - hand's up who's been stuck behind something old thats burning oil? That stick is hard to miss and yes it is very bad to be breathing in!

Shame all those old airports full of new cars rotting away because the car industry fucked up the numbers and couldn't sell them. Repay that eco debt.

I'm so happy to drive a 30 year old car done 400k and gets 10-11 km per ltr. That's better than many new cars. Repaid its eco cost and then some compared to the throw away new car industry you seem to support.

No oil or smoke from me, I see more of that belching out of brand new range rovers and VW and any euro diesel.

Must be a computer glitch...

 

[spoozbucket]

hand's up who's been stuck behind something old thats burning oil? That stick is hard to miss and yes it is very bad to be breathing in!

I was stuck behind a modern VW diesel at the lights, I thought I was going to die!