Bowden Spur Kinglake - The rebuilding of a new legal DH riding facility.
- Thread starter Wisey
- Start date
blackmamba
Likes Bikes
that's fucked. yell out if you want a hand on the tools fixing the trail
retroenduro
Likes Dirt
if you want hand on tools fixing the c*&ts yell out too.
Really?
The more I read in these threads the more questions I start to ask of certain members of 'the mountain bike community.'
I think it is a little hypocritical to be yapping it up in one thread about how riding trails in the winter does damage to the trails, yet I can flip the page and find threads about racing in places that are muddy and obviously being damaged. I guess the click just needs it called a 'race weekend' to make it ok..... ( correct me if i'm wrong but I believe someone said we have 9months of the year to ride, therefore we surely only have 9 months of the year to hold races then.)
But no...races are held in the rain and mud....so it only makes sense to 'train as you play' right?.
To be brutally honest, a few wrinkles and technical sections wouldn't hurt at all. Double black diamond??? other than the jumps, my 10yr old neighbour could ride the trail and where do you go from here with grading? It reminds me more of cressy's than turbulence...
I actually think the real issue is the same as any track, soft or not . No skidding and like in golf.... replace your divots!!!! Then no one would ever know. Watching the videos now days doesn't help either... they seem happy to skid and roost trail all in the name of 'style'.
I am itching to ride the track again, mainly because it's close to home....but not while the community is playing judge, jury and executioner. It wouldn't be worth the out-cry.
Maybe we should get a start on the new trail... at least then there would be a presence at the site. I don't think threatening people is a good idea though... you never know who you might meet out there...
should only be another 6 weeks or so now....... =)
The more I read in these threads the more questions I start to ask of certain members of 'the mountain bike community.'
I think it is a little hypocritical to be yapping it up in one thread about how riding trails in the winter does damage to the trails, yet I can flip the page and find threads about racing in places that are muddy and obviously being damaged. I guess the click just needs it called a 'race weekend' to make it ok..... ( correct me if i'm wrong but I believe someone said we have 9months of the year to ride, therefore we surely only have 9 months of the year to hold races then.)
But no...races are held in the rain and mud....so it only makes sense to 'train as you play' right?.
To be brutally honest, a few wrinkles and technical sections wouldn't hurt at all. Double black diamond??? other than the jumps, my 10yr old neighbour could ride the trail and where do you go from here with grading? It reminds me more of cressy's than turbulence...
I actually think the real issue is the same as any track, soft or not . No skidding and like in golf.... replace your divots!!!! Then no one would ever know. Watching the videos now days doesn't help either... they seem happy to skid and roost trail all in the name of 'style'.
I am itching to ride the track again, mainly because it's close to home....but not while the community is playing judge, jury and executioner. It wouldn't be worth the out-cry.
Maybe we should get a start on the new trail... at least then there would be a presence at the site. I don't think threatening people is a good idea though... you never know who you might meet out there...
should only be another 6 weeks or so now....... =)
Mywifesirrational
I however am very normal. Trust me.
Yes, I am waiting impatiently as well to ride this track - like the majority on here. I don't think they are going to be bashing people, more likely fines from PV? I don't think anyone needed a crystal ball to predict this type of behavior when a brand new track immediately was closed for months.
I presume with races held in the wet, the club orgonising the event is responsible for preparing the track and also fixing the damage cause ? If this is the case I have no problems with winter races and presonally like winter downhill (ignoring the issue of enviromental damage), it's fun and a great spectator event.
I agree, tearing up tracks has become a bit of a style requirement on the internet.
Interesting thing about Cressy is, I find it easy, no matter what bike I am on, to me it's not a black diamond. My novice friends find it scary - they walk the drops and they roll the jumps, to them its definitely a black diamond. You only need one or two 'dangerous' spots on a track to get it into the black diamond category.
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Staunch
Eats Squid
This is pretty much spot on I'd say.
With more winter races, the club/trail builders who've organised it are aware of the potential damage to the track and are prepared for that to happen in order to hold a race.
With the situation at Kinglake, the blokes that are riding out there are straight up defying the requests of the clubs/builders/parks to keep the track closed and this is where a problem arises.
Like with any track, regardless of the season, you have to respect the trailbuilders' wishes as they're the ones who've put in the hard work. If they say to not ride their trail, well then stay the fuck off it.
If you want to ride in winter, go build your own trails or find some that are ok to ride rather than ruining the hard work of others.
retroenduro
Likes Dirt
exactly what he said. I feel for the guys when this sort of shit happens
having given up my weekends to build trails and then turning up to find some selfish pricks couldnt wait and have wrecked them is heart breaking. Whats even worse is when they give you abuse for telling them the trail is closed...yeah people should be careful who they run into on the trails...especially when they shouldnt be on them in the first place and the trail builder is armed with a mattock.
food for thought
Welcome to the new millennium boys!! I think you will find it was a professional company with machines and a 16yr old labourer up their building and not some random with a mattock. They got PAID to make this trail. Maybe the boys at world trail should invest in a roller or packer so that the trails are 'finished' when they leave.(A road/base doesn't sit all winter to harden....) Or perhaps some rock armouring like I have seen in the trouble spots at other places as shown on their website could solve some of the issues. They seemed to do a better job of this at buller......seems we got extra large over-size 'really cool looking' berms instead. I guess they decided this was the best use of resources. Reminds me of watching road cycling the Northcote valodrome.
It also needs to be considered that we don't all like to ride the same types of trail. Ok so there is jumps and off camber....what about roots, logs, rock gardens, narrow single track. It seems balls are more important than technical riding skills. Speed is the major contributor to damage... think about it.... it results in heavier braking and corner loading.
The ranger is the one able to get pissed really. He is ultimately the one who is having his jurisdiction tested. Re: Fines from parks Victoria... good luck with that... there are too many ways to get onto this 'public land' without seeing a 'closed' or 'no trespassing' sign for it to stick.
You might also find some of us would rather spend a few hours fixing after riding every couple of weeks than a few hours driving to get home from whoop whoop every ride!
So until they 'wreck' the trail (which is a matter of opinion... some say we wrecked the bush by cutting the trail so bloody wide...) they are not really doing anything wrong except not following this 'mountain biking etiquette' every one keeps mentioning. I don't mind some ruts and holes here and there....after all it is double black.
So, as per the defence of races/club, if I take a rake with me and tidy up after my ride it's ok?
Welcome to the new millennium boys!! I think you will find it was a professional company with machines and a 16yr old labourer up their building and not some random with a mattock. They got PAID to make this trail. Maybe the boys at world trail should invest in a roller or packer so that the trails are 'finished' when they leave.(A road/base doesn't sit all winter to harden....) Or perhaps some rock armouring like I have seen in the trouble spots at other places as shown on their website could solve some of the issues. They seemed to do a better job of this at buller......seems we got extra large over-size 'really cool looking' berms instead. I guess they decided this was the best use of resources. Reminds me of watching road cycling the Northcote valodrome.
It also needs to be considered that we don't all like to ride the same types of trail. Ok so there is jumps and off camber....what about roots, logs, rock gardens, narrow single track. It seems balls are more important than technical riding skills. Speed is the major contributor to damage... think about it.... it results in heavier braking and corner loading.
The ranger is the one able to get pissed really. He is ultimately the one who is having his jurisdiction tested. Re: Fines from parks Victoria... good luck with that... there are too many ways to get onto this 'public land' without seeing a 'closed' or 'no trespassing' sign for it to stick.
You might also find some of us would rather spend a few hours fixing after riding every couple of weeks than a few hours driving to get home from whoop whoop every ride!
So until they 'wreck' the trail (which is a matter of opinion... some say we wrecked the bush by cutting the trail so bloody wide...) they are not really doing anything wrong except not following this 'mountain biking etiquette' every one keeps mentioning. I don't mind some ruts and holes here and there....after all it is double black.
So, as per the defence of races/club, if I take a rake with me and tidy up after my ride it's ok?
cooki_monsta
Likes Dirt
I think you have missed the point WT has done a great job building it, and they got it done on time. THEY then requested it be shut to let the trail settle. Why no road base and wacca you ask? Money! They don't have a bottomless pit of cash and at the end of the day they can only do what people will pay them to do, same with time, to road base the whole track, would take weeks of extra barrow intensive and labour intensive work.... Also not an option, this is the same reason why the jumps are doubles instead of tables.....
Don't just take it upon yourself to decide to ride a closed track "because I'm gonna fix what I wreck" joe blow who sees you on there might not hang around long enough to see you fix divits..... He then leaves thinking the track can be ridden because he saw "some guy riding it" so he brings some mates.
His mates then bring their mates to said closed trail...... See where I'm going with this?
STAY THE FUCK OFF IT LIKE WT, PV AND YOUYANGS MTB HAVE ASKED US TO
Don't just take it upon yourself to decide to ride a closed track "because I'm gonna fix what I wreck" joe blow who sees you on there might not hang around long enough to see you fix divits..... He then leaves thinking the track can be ridden because he saw "some guy riding it" so he brings some mates.
His mates then bring their mates to said closed trail...... See where I'm going with this?
STAY THE FUCK OFF IT LIKE WT, PV AND YOUYANGS MTB HAVE ASKED US TO
mudmav
Likes Dirt
And here it is again, one of the main reasons i stopped riding downhill specific trails!!
LOTS OF DOWNHILL RIDERS ARE INCONSIDERATE TOOLS
When i first started riding downhill everything was rosey, people wanted to help with track work and generally look after the bush. Ten years on and all i kept finding and meeting was inconsiderate tools.
You know the type they turn up at a track they have never ridden and would never even consider giving up their time to build or maintain.
Strap on their fancy Fluro TLD kit and their expensive d3 helmet, remove their 10,000 dollar carbon downhill bike (READ MUMMY AND DADDYS) that they don't maintain from mum and dads grip rack. strap their helmet on thinking that they are sam hill or the like and then spend the arvo shredding a trail to pieces in any weather.
Then pack up their gear and go home.
ASSHOLES
I have tried being positive and getting on board with trail advocacy groups and trying to educate people, but just kept finding that in general people were arrogant and unwilling to change or help.
So in the end i sold my downhill bike, stopped going to races, bought an all mountain bike (6 inch dually) and a new XC bike and i now build and maintain trails with a local XC/TRAIL advocacy group and also maintain my own secret trails.
and guess what i really dont miss the downhill scene and excluding a few close friends and decent people i really don't miss the majority of the arrogant sam hill wannabes either or the attitudes of downhill racers.
Regards
CONVERTED TRAIL RIDER
P.S Great work from the crew who helped build and facility sheppard's and also to the world trail crew. I really hope that the general attitude of people in the downhill scene changes not only for the sake of our trails but also the sake of the sport
LOTS OF DOWNHILL RIDERS ARE INCONSIDERATE TOOLS
When i first started riding downhill everything was rosey, people wanted to help with track work and generally look after the bush. Ten years on and all i kept finding and meeting was inconsiderate tools.
You know the type they turn up at a track they have never ridden and would never even consider giving up their time to build or maintain.
Strap on their fancy Fluro TLD kit and their expensive d3 helmet, remove their 10,000 dollar carbon downhill bike (READ MUMMY AND DADDYS) that they don't maintain from mum and dads grip rack. strap their helmet on thinking that they are sam hill or the like and then spend the arvo shredding a trail to pieces in any weather.
Then pack up their gear and go home.
ASSHOLES
I have tried being positive and getting on board with trail advocacy groups and trying to educate people, but just kept finding that in general people were arrogant and unwilling to change or help.
So in the end i sold my downhill bike, stopped going to races, bought an all mountain bike (6 inch dually) and a new XC bike and i now build and maintain trails with a local XC/TRAIL advocacy group and also maintain my own secret trails.
and guess what i really dont miss the downhill scene and excluding a few close friends and decent people i really don't miss the majority of the arrogant sam hill wannabes either or the attitudes of downhill racers.
Regards
CONVERTED TRAIL RIDER
P.S Great work from the crew who helped build and facility sheppard's and also to the world trail crew. I really hope that the general attitude of people in the downhill scene changes not only for the sake of our trails but also the sake of the sport
Relax people!
Doubles instead of tables...? Didn't seem to have an effect on the berm size did it? Barrow? I am sure I saw an excavator up there...? I also saw a kid raking the soft, so for the same labour cost and hire/buy a whacker (most of the boys I know with machines have a whacker...) The whole track?? No... just the areas with lots of fill or are unstable. What if the track was half as wide... couldn't you spend twice as much time detailing and packing instead of clearing? (Yes, I understand regrowth needs to be considered....) Trail building is still a huge learning curve in Australia and I think feedback is a good thing due to the diverse conditions at each build site. It is all relevant as the next track is by volunteer. And YES!, I'm planning on being involved.
WT requested the trail be closed... if I built a house that was untenable and told my client not to move in.... I wouldn't get paid! But you are correct, sometimes it can take weeks to get it right... but it's a paying job! So, great job to quickly get it polished so the 'opening' could happen. Inspection after major rain showed a few flaws....perfect thats why inspections happen...easy to fix the problems we can see while they are still here... no...just shut it down. I bet my left nut these areas will remain a problem until armoured... i.e. the right hander at bottom of bumps just after you enter 'the corridor'.
The other confusion is with the people (including the ranger) that use 'safety of riders' as a reason. Are you admitting liability then Mr.Ranger? Hell no! 35ft Jumps...Safety of riders.... aahhhem. I think the Double Black rating at the top clears up the 'safety' issues.
Simply... I respect the fact it is closed and I will not ride it until it is open. What I don't respect is morons or joe blow cocking off about this like its their trail and that anyone who questions it is an idiot! Teaching and telling are different beasts....and rider education and environmental awareness doesn't improve just by swearing at people. The tools that ride anyway don't read this.
My frustration is after having lived at the base of the hill for 30+ years and riding the old kinglake, there was barely a time it wasn't greasy, damp or soft up there. I don't think it would be hard to pop in once a week and if its dry... let em roll...maybe building trail in Vic is not the best idea in Autumn? Especially if the old trail is abolished. It's been worth the sacrifice though as it is now x1000 better.........
I'm with you.... IT IS CLOSED! I will not be riding it... and I tell everyone I know the same thing as I drag my ass all the way to the Youies.... Just bring on the 'end of winter', whenever that is...6 weeks i guess.
Time to take a broader view I think!! You seemed to miss a few points as well......
Doubles instead of tables...? Didn't seem to have an effect on the berm size did it? Barrow? I am sure I saw an excavator up there...? I also saw a kid raking the soft, so for the same labour cost and hire/buy a whacker (most of the boys I know with machines have a whacker...) The whole track?? No... just the areas with lots of fill or are unstable. What if the track was half as wide... couldn't you spend twice as much time detailing and packing instead of clearing? (Yes, I understand regrowth needs to be considered....) Trail building is still a huge learning curve in Australia and I think feedback is a good thing due to the diverse conditions at each build site. It is all relevant as the next track is by volunteer. And YES!, I'm planning on being involved.
WT requested the trail be closed... if I built a house that was untenable and told my client not to move in.... I wouldn't get paid! But you are correct, sometimes it can take weeks to get it right... but it's a paying job! So, great job to quickly get it polished so the 'opening' could happen. Inspection after major rain showed a few flaws....perfect thats why inspections happen...easy to fix the problems we can see while they are still here... no...just shut it down. I bet my left nut these areas will remain a problem until armoured... i.e. the right hander at bottom of bumps just after you enter 'the corridor'.
The other confusion is with the people (including the ranger) that use 'safety of riders' as a reason. Are you admitting liability then Mr.Ranger? Hell no! 35ft Jumps...Safety of riders.... aahhhem. I think the Double Black rating at the top clears up the 'safety' issues.
Simply... I respect the fact it is closed and I will not ride it until it is open. What I don't respect is morons or joe blow cocking off about this like its their trail and that anyone who questions it is an idiot! Teaching and telling are different beasts....and rider education and environmental awareness doesn't improve just by swearing at people. The tools that ride anyway don't read this.
My frustration is after having lived at the base of the hill for 30+ years and riding the old kinglake, there was barely a time it wasn't greasy, damp or soft up there. I don't think it would be hard to pop in once a week and if its dry... let em roll...maybe building trail in Vic is not the best idea in Autumn? Especially if the old trail is abolished. It's been worth the sacrifice though as it is now x1000 better.........
I'm with you.... IT IS CLOSED! I will not be riding it... and I tell everyone I know the same thing as I drag my ass all the way to the Youies.... Just bring on the 'end of winter', whenever that is...6 weeks i guess.
I am 13, and I ride a V10 carbon that Mum and Dad bought me for my birthday this year. I wear a matching TLD kit and I dont really think there is anything wrong with it, like I worked for it heaps. There are some jobs I do around the house like taking out the rubbish and feeding the dog some times that I use to earn my bike. And I kind of think its my right anyways, like I need it to ride downhill and my parents are really just there to provide for me anyway. Peoples parents who dont buy them good bikes are just pretty shit, like I think they should buy whatever their kids want for them. And its my right to ride trails in the wet, if trail builders cant build tracks that can hold up to rain then they deserve to have their trails destroyed I think.
Go ride the illegal trails
Everyone owns this track(or everyone who pays tax ) so I cannot see how a trail builder can close it they don't own it! So go ride the so called illegal trails in the yarra valley that no one knows about while the king lake bmx goes hard and gets groomed just like a dh track should
Yippee_Ki_YayMF
Likes Dirt
I know it's probably going to be hard due to money constraints etc, but why don't we learn from trail builders in some of the wettest climates in the world, and take up a couple of truck loads of rocks and layer it in the trouble spots. Kind of making a surface like this new park in Northern Wales. Surely we all would like a track that can be ridden all year and that can stand up to traffic.
In saying that, we all must understand that the closure is a product of the soft surface coupled with the rain. Maybe next winter, closures wont happen as frequent. But the above trail sure shows us how the pro's do it, with forethought.
PS. I also ran into a bloke last week who overtly admitted to driving down to Kinglake and riding even though he knew it was closed. With inconsiderate people like that around, something needs to be done to make the surface of the track sustainable long term, otherwise clowns like that will ruin it for the rest of us who are waiting and respecting the closure/s. The reality is, there are people who do the wrong thing, whether we like it or not, and we and the builders/maintainers etc have to evolve and minimize the harm for the majority.
I agree with Dog too. Waan5 you need a hug or something.
In saying that, we all must understand that the closure is a product of the soft surface coupled with the rain. Maybe next winter, closures wont happen as frequent. But the above trail sure shows us how the pro's do it, with forethought.
PS. I also ran into a bloke last week who overtly admitted to driving down to Kinglake and riding even though he knew it was closed. With inconsiderate people like that around, something needs to be done to make the surface of the track sustainable long term, otherwise clowns like that will ruin it for the rest of us who are waiting and respecting the closure/s. The reality is, there are people who do the wrong thing, whether we like it or not, and we and the builders/maintainers etc have to evolve and minimize the harm for the majority.
I agree with Dog too. Waan5 you need a hug or something.
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dunndog
Eats Squid
Are you serious? Or am I missing the sarcasm in your post? Do you seriously think that of your parents? Do you seriously think taking out the rubbish and feeding the dog earns you a carbon v10 and tld kit? Mate when I was a kid I had to chop wood and go hay bailing to save up to buy my first skateboard. That taught me to appreciate what I have and earn it, and respect in some small way the work my parents did and sacrifices they made to support a family. I think you might wanna start trying to do the same. As for your comments on riding trails in the rain, well... again, you obviously lack respect. for the people who built the track, and for everyone else prepared to do their bit and make the odd sacrifice for the benefit of everyone. Lets be honest, we all ride wet trails here and there, but I'm sure most don't go out with that sort of stuff everyone else attitude. I think you should pull your head in until such time as you do some jobs that actually require some work, and understand things a bit better.
Atleast you have the fact that you're only 13 to fall back on though, there are others that are much older and should know much better but seemingly don't.
I challenge you to show your parents that last post and tell us what they think of it.
Yippee_Ki_YayMF
Likes Dirt
:help: Pretty sure Theo is taking the piss. He races under 17's and I don't remember him having a SC. I think that was his way are describing the typical spoilt brat.
dunndog
Eats Squid
Yeah TBH I always thought he was pretty level headed on here, but gee that was a button pushing post! Sucked me in...:doh: