Bowden Spur Kinglake - The rebuilding of a new legal DH riding facility.

Shredden

Knows his goats
Aha, guys, guys, I am 15 years old and ride a positively fucked sunday with no brake pads and bald tyres aha, worked for all of it! Parents do pay for race entry though ;) Definitely no V10 carbons here, nor attitudes of "trails shud be riden in al condishuns"

You fellas need one of these:



I challenge you to show your parents that last post and tell us what they think of it.
Yeah, showed dad my post and everyones reactions, he giggled a little.

Should also clarify, I have actually heard a kid in a shuttle line saying that "people should ride trails in the wet because its the builders fault for not making them sustainable" was going to beat to death but I'm too weak.
 
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scotty thommo

Likes Dirt
Everyone owns this track(or everyone who pays tax ) so I cannot see how a trail builder can close it they don't own it!
quiet simply actually world trail would have spoken with the ranger and said it not ready to ride, its only
Going to get destroyed so then the ranger will close it it's pretty simple if you think about it.
 

mudmav

Likes Dirt
Shredden

I held off on commenting on your post as i assumed you were taking the piss and thank god you were



Please dont think i think all young fellas are a problem as i dont, i actaully do some trail building/ maintenance with some good yound fellas that work hard and show lots of respect. They are also absolute shredders.

But in general most young blokes at races think they are sam hill with the attitude to match. Its stange that not many of them have the hard work or the skill set to match a top level racer!

This being said there are just as many 18-50 year old riders that show a total lack of respect for mother nature and the trail, and dont realise that all they do is shine a very poor light on mountain bikers as a whole!

Which is incredibly annoying when their are people that are considerate and level headed.

Anyway my rant's over and im heading to the garage for a ride on the spin bike while watching last nights TDF stage as its to wet to go ride my local trails
 

waan5

Squid
I know it's probably going to be hard due to money constraints etc, but why don't we learn from trail builders in some of the wettest climates in the world, and take up a couple of truck loads of rocks and layer it in the trouble spots. Kind of making a surface like this new park in Northern Wales. Surely we all would like a track that can be ridden all year and that can stand up to traffic.

View attachment 239670

In saying that, we all must understand that the closure is a product of the soft surface coupled with the rain. Maybe next winter, closures wont happen as frequent. But the above trail sure shows us how the pro's do it, with forethought.

PS. I also ran into a bloke last week who overtly admitted to driving down to Kinglake and riding even though he knew it was closed. With inconsiderate people like that around, something needs to be done to make the surface of the track sustainable long term, otherwise clowns like that will ruin it for the rest of us who are waiting and respecting the closure/s. The reality is, there are people who do the wrong thing, whether we like it or not, and we and the builders/maintainers etc have to evolve and minimize the harm for the majority.

I agree with Dog too. Waan5 you need a hug or something.
Thanks for thinking of me fellas. Yippee... I think you see where I was heading with this. You came through with a pretty sweet picture though so you have me covered. I probably am getting bitter in my old age but I'm just frustrated. It is just that I have heard it all before. I lived in Canada for 5 years in the freestyle ski scene and we faced similar issues with our jump building, the terrain park and the spoilt people that paint a bad image of the scene. I thankfully wasn't one of them... I was lucky enough to have my gear covered though after busting my balls and proving my worth as a coach.

The wisdom I do have to offer is: early, no one was allowed to hit our jumps until we had left the build site... and it cost us. We eventually came around and some of the best days turned out to be with random rippers, new faces to laugh and throw down with. We then had the chance to teach them the etiquette (like I said before..) and we soon got to spend days hitting their shit without having to work at it. Sharing and caring!

I also really wish these kids knew what Sam Hill was really riding (anyone who films know the cameras lie!). You could be the next best thing riding in Oz killing it with your mates and get to places o/s where even the girls ride stuff harder than us..... I think it's a cop out if track design heads to all groomed fast stuff so people can 'be as fast as their idols...'

I'm having a laugh now, some people must honestly believe their opinion is fact! If you can't address all of the points, don't just cock off about one... go and have a think about it ALL first. =)

I also saw a whacker in a picture on world trails site... any chance we could borrow that puppy for a while? It's probably not being used.... ;-)

I actually know someone with a whacker.... all we need now is a bag or two of lime. Hi ho hi ho.......
 

blackmamba

Likes Bikes
Yeah building in winter wasn't ideal nor are some section of the track, it will evolve in time! But i think people are missing a vital point. This is the first 'legal' track built in a Vic National Park. nods back to the start of this thread - It has taken alot of behind the scenes work (5+ years) to even get the sign off to get this track built. In order to get approval the design had to be built by 'a registered organisation' for liability reasons, in order to appease skeptics within PV, local council, SP AusNet and other relevant parties. It was never going to be a gnarly goat trail full of meat truck jumps/drops etc built by local dewdz. But having said that neither was the old track.
End of the day this track is different to any other as Parks Vic is a Government organisation- Public Liability had to be considered (iRide at apollo bay has built his trails with a similar thought process). Whilst most Authorities are focusing on shutting down trails, refer to the current outlooks saga, Parks are building!. Hence why all jumps are roll-able! Parks Vic, WT planning & design had to take morons into account: "i wanted to ride a xc trail and didnt see the double black sign, i crashed, now my rocky mountain is broken, i bruised my toe and have hurt feelings...i want a BMW!"

This trail id effectively a track that PV will be able to use as an example of what can be achieved and other parks will sight it to get approval elsewhere in the state. So if we want to see more DH/freeride tracks in National Parks, just respect that the trail is not right to go yet, think of it as still under construction if that makes it easier to understand. Support other clubs and ride the alpine gravity, avid winter series or other ride days that are up for grabs til summer.
 

Wisey

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Yeah building in winter wasn't ideal nor are some section of the track, it will evolve in time! But i think people are missing a vital point. This is the first 'legal' track built in a Vic National Park. nods back to the start of this thread - It has taken alot of behind the scenes work (5+ years) to even get the sign off to get this track built. In order to get approval the design had to be built by 'a registered organisation' for liability reasons, in order to appease skeptics within PV, local council, SP AusNet and other relevant parties. It was never going to be a gnarly goat trail full of meat truck jumps/drops etc built by local dewdz. But having said that neither was the old track.
End of the day this track is different to any other as Parks Vic is a Government organisation- Public Liability had to be considered (iRide at apollo bay has built his trails with a similar thought process). Whilst most Authorities are focusing on shutting down trails, refer to the current outlooks saga, Parks are building!. Hence why all jumps are roll-able! Parks Vic, WT planning & design had to take morons into account: "i wanted to ride a xc trail and didnt see the double black sign, i crashed, now my rocky mountain is broken, i bruised my toe and have hurt feelings...i want a BMW!"

This trail id effectively a track that PV will be able to use as an example of what can be achieved and other parks will sight it to get approval elsewhere in the state. So if we want to see more DH/freeride tracks in National Parks, just respect that the trail is not right to go yet, think of it as still under construction if that makes it easier to understand. Support other clubs and ride the alpine gravity, avid winter series or other ride days that are up for grabs til summer.
Spot on and correct. This trail has achieved so many firsts for DH riding and moving it forward as a legitimate discipline and recreation with designated areas in the eyes of our land holders and gov't depts there are no negatives, only good will come from this facility for future trail projects.

We rode it enough to see some issues and in some areas it was all buttery and spongy soft, regardless of how much whacking the area could've got and the descision was made by all parties concerned to keep it closed for the sustainability of the track long term. More adjustments have been made by WT after the extened closeure, they have spent another 3 or 4 full days onsite, tweaking some jumps, benching a couple of spots and fixing some rather large ruts that formed.

This is a unique situation to have a completely new tread ready to ride and another month or two won't hurt anyone, believe me, it has been 6 years so far. Hopefully with the way the trail is built it will get through most coming winters without too many closeures after it has a full summer to bake but as with the excellent work PV and associated clubs are doing with Lysty and Youies management when we get to much rain these areas are closed for good measure, it's better for everyone long term and Kinglake will be no different.

Lastly, the second trail built opposite will definately have a different personality to Shepherds, might even resemble goat track in some spots because as for the main part it will be built by hand so eventually there will be something there for everyone, even if Shepherds isn't gnar enough...
 

waan5

Squid
I went for a look...

Politics is hard to understand sometimes... =( So how did the other 'to be constructed' runs get by this standard if they are to be volunteer built? All grey...politics. Not to be a know it all but Churchill is actually a NP also and correct me if I'm wrong but I think the site is not actually part of the park. =) But I totally agree with how good it is to make any park land (regional or national) available to more user groups. Again, well done Wisey for managing to swim where most sink. =)

Thanks for your reply Wisey, always the level head. I hope you don't take my posts as saying Shephereds is not Gnar enough.... It will be! It just achieves it via speed and air time. Since my coaching work, I'm constantly looking for 'progressive' builds in any sport.... A has to lead to B...etc. My best jumpers were always my best bump skiers.... they had the tech to adjust... hitting jumps is simply 'terrain adaption'. Not so much Gnar... but tech. Change of speed also makes a rider work so 2km can make you earn it. Thats where the skills parks o/s have proven so popular. They too included a pump track like the one proposed.. There are then steps up to a 35ft step-down into berm...

Unlike some... I decided to take a trip up and walk the trail with the dog yesterday. Wisey you are correct, there are some 'spongy spots'. They are exactly where I thought they would be after my opening w/end ride. Those spots were problems BEFORE the 'major rain event'. The rest of the track is like a freaking rock. The majority of areas ridden are showing barely a mark and has been ridden quite a bit by the look of it, they actually look better than the 'soft' areas that are actually beginning to wash away to expose a hardness rather than settle.. =(.

I personally 'think' now would be a good time to tickle the trouble spots... while we can still see them and they are 'workable' by hand. They may never properly dry in those trees but we can make sure of it. It only takes a crust to form over the marshmallow for it to look fine but.... a few rocks, some lime and cement and those spots would be no more. The R/H'er at the top of the corridor is high G down and into the berm. It was the spot I was talking about before even going up there. It has now had optimal conditions to settle. Not to mention that wet clay will shrink and leave potholes.

Wisey, I'm offering to work with you on this to fix it, not demanding it be open. If done now the track will certainly be rollable sooner! I will even buy what I need to stabilise a few spots.... please PM me if this is possible.

Now a bit of a rant..... and sorry if I offend anyone. WHoever the clever person was that put SMALL logs all over the trail..... your an idiot!!! You created a freaking slalom course in no turn areas.....not to mention forcing people to BRAKE to go AROUND them. I am pretty sure if they were prepared to ride around three 2.5 meter wide steel tube barriers with 'TRACK CLOSED'... they are going to ride anyway. It has made it worse! It's a great theory...but unless they are large they are mere obstacles not obstructions. Barbed wire at chest height might be better....? =P

I also found people about to start riding up there. A couple of youngsters who just want to practice for the upcoming races. Yep, just like every other athlete in every other sport and not everyone has the luxury of travelling for miles to train, nor do they appear to follow the forums. So whoever runs the next race meet might want to make an announcement to their riders to pull their heads in and where to check for closures!! If 'not training' is a problem and racers feel the need to ride in the wet to prepare... don't hold the freaking races in the wet! Like I also mentioned before, it gave me a chance to talk to them about it. I believe they then went and hit the top 2 berms a few times as they are rock hard and I am not going to argue with that logic. I also suggested a few fall line runs down the old 4WD track away from the trail.... turn around and fuck me if sections that have nothing to do with the trail had closed signage. Now that is bullshit.

Is it true that the same ranger that closed the track is now riding bike in Whistler and not even around to assess the conditions? If so, I think it might be time for whoever is in charge at kinglake to roll out and have a look at the situation. I think now is as good a time as any to at least assess and address!!

I also figure, anyone who wasn't involved or hasn't been up to look at the trail in the last 3 days or so doesn't really have the facts they need to sit in judgement anymore! =S
 

Wisey

Likes Bikes and Dirt
At this stage WT are still managing the process of making sure they deliver what has been paid for and promissed so no other trail work will take place, rightly or wrongly. An important part of this is the agreement that YYMTB will formally adapt an MOI to manage the area going forward whos responsibilty will be trail maintenace, this will take place in the hand over as well as the IMBA final approval.

Kinglake PV are under staffed and under the pump all the time since the fires and consequently have had extra staff come in to help complete these projects. We have had 3 different rangers, 2 from YY and one from NE Vic manage this project at different times over the last two years, Mark and Mark from the You Yangs have been an integral part of seeing this project through and having great input to get us here. Mark U has gone on an exchange to Canada to do some more good work, he left before the trail opened and Mark W has been running this project since the other left. They both should be commended for their tireless work, they both post here as You Yangs Ranger. So no, that is not true.
 

redbruce

Eats Squid
Are you serious? Or am I missing the sarcasm in your post? Do you seriously think that of your parents? Do you seriously think taking out the rubbish and feeding the dog earns you a carbon v10 and tld kit? Mate when I was a kid I had to chop wood and go hay bailing to save up to buy my first skateboard. That taught me to appreciate what I have and earn it, and respect in some small way the work my parents did and sacrifices they made to support a family. I think you might wanna start trying to do the same. As for your comments on riding trails in the rain, well... again, you obviously lack respect. for the people who built the track, and for everyone else prepared to do their bit and make the odd sacrifice for the benefit of everyone. Lets be honest, we all ride wet trails here and there, but I'm sure most don't go out with that sort of stuff everyone else attitude. I think you should pull your head in until such time as you do some jobs that actually require some work, and understand things a bit better.
Atleast you have the fact that you're only 13 to fall back on though, there are others that are much older and should know much better but seemingly don't.
I challenge you to show your parents that last post and tell us what they think of it.
You been shredded, join the club.
 
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HimynameisMike

Likes Dirt
Just my two cents, and it would cost money, but maybe not as much as coating a lot of the track in rock/gravel - why not put gates along the trail at 'critical points' on the track?
You know what its like, smashing a long a trail, having a blast then - god dammit, to many logs/big fallen trees in the way, I'll have to get off my bike and walk over, start riding again, 30 seconds later - double god dammit - more impassable objects in the way.
I've had this happen on a few times on trails and it drives me nuts, so why not do the say with Kinglake and put gates across the trail at certain points?
I do of course see the obvious point that people will just ride around the gates and get back onto the track another way, but A ) it may stop a few 'less eager' riders and B ) I'm sure someone could come up with a way of improving this idea to protect the track better.
I'll also add another two cents so you can round it up to five cents to make it easier - what about starting a Kinglake mountain bike club? Or, is there already a club in the area that could help maintain the track?
I'd be more than willing to pay a yearly membership fee to be part of a local club (well kinglakes 45 minutes away for me, instead of an hour and a half to get to you yangs.) and would be more than willing to lend some shovel time as well.
 

waan5

Squid
At this stage WT are still managing the process of making sure they deliver what has been paid for and promissed so no other trail work will take place, rightly or wrongly. An important part of this is the agreement that YYMTB will formally adapt an MOI to manage the area going forward whos responsibilty will be trail maintenace, this will take place in the hand over as well as the IMBA final approval.

Kinglake PV are under staffed and under the pump all the time since the fires and consequently have had extra staff come in to help complete these projects. We have had 3 different rangers, 2 from YY and one from NE Vic manage this project at different times over the last two years, Mark and Mark from the You Yangs have been an integral part of seeing this project through and having great input to get us here. Mark U has gone on an exchange to Canada to do some more good work, he left before the trail opened and Mark W has been running this project since the other left. They both should be commended for their tireless work, they both post here as You Yangs Ranger. So no, that is not true.
Cheers Wisey! Can't say I didn't try. Also love the Kinglake (Northern) MTB club idea. Much more chance of people joining I think as it's 'local'. HHmmmmmmmm....

P.S - Also more chance of financial help if 'local'... i have a contact inside of Rotary who has been quite positive about putting some money into 'local' clubs and developments. The way Wisey has handled all this has shown it has promise and they are always keen to help new groups to succeed.
 
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blackmamba

Likes Bikes
churchy is a well known, well established track but is not 'legal' in the sense of the word. Kingers defiantly is National Park. Its spans two shires murrindindi & Nillumbik, nilli does the roads. Power company is responsible for managing (slashing) the vegetation in accordance with the electrical safety (line clearance) regulations. But yeah man, its a national park so there are quite a bit of paperwork to punch out to do anything legally. The Marks & Ion have and are all over it and doing an amazing job. Matt smacked it dead on. Parks are way under resourced and dont have time to station a ranger or field officer on the track full time so rely on forums such as this to spread the word more efficiently.

Which bits of the 4x4 trail are you referring to as being closed? If its the sections i think your on about - most were closed off to stop public getting on the rums & taking there patrols down the track and having a party (as has occurred in the past). Only reason the tracks are there is for the power mob to access the towers for maintenance and emergency works.

PV are saying its closed. The signage they erected is stating it is closed. The good word on rotor burn is that it is closed. it's closed brother. It is for a good reason, believe me man im frothing to get on it. The openning was tits! Boys are just after a bit of patience. When its suitable Glen and his crew will get amongst it and make it all pretty. If your itching, and looking to pass the time come help build ferntree gully or help pull boneseed at redhill (i need all the help i can get!!) or dig at morwell or jump on an xc bike and suss out forest or blores hill plenty of options mate
 

Timbot

Likes Dirt
Tell me your name

Everyone owns this track(or everyone who pays tax ) so I cannot see how a trail builder can close it they don't own it! So go ride the so called illegal trails in the yarra valley that no one knows about while the king lake bmx goes hard and gets groomed just like a dh track should[
 
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notso

Likes Dirt
Why not tell me your name so when i spot you when im busting my balls building on"the illegal trails"in the yarra valley i can remove your helmet and punch you in the face.You have no respect and therefore deserve to be treated with none
I second this. Fuckin idiots!
 

Whippy

Likes Bikes
When is it reopening

i know on the website it says closed till after winter but i was just wondering how long after winter will it reopen.
because the first day of september is a saturday and i am super keen to get out and ride the track as soon as its open.

Thanks.
 

Wisey

Likes Bikes and Dirt
i know on the website it says closed till after winter but i was just wondering how long after winter will it reopen.
because the first day of september is a saturday and i am super keen to get out and ride the track as soon as its open.

Thanks.
When it's dry and hard.

Might not open till October or even Nov if we keep getting all this rain and traditionally spring is quite wet as well.
 

Nautonier

Eats Squid
I heard this really awesome Guns n Roses track on the radio today:

[video=youtube;zBEo5ZGGsO4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBEo5ZGGsO4[/video]
 
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