Chicken Run, Mt Riv Closed ?!?

[stirk]

Didn't make it down this morning, was a good conversation had?

 

[hazza6542]

Not really, good was made with the council though and the track is looking better. Some rocks now, nice touch for a dh track. Nobody rocked up except our usual crew we all ride with. LUMP'S crew, lower upper mountains posse represent. Cos it's the lower, upper mountains.

 

[Moggio]

Well this made the local paper The Blue Mountains Gazette.

 

[thecat]

Well this made the local paper The Blue Mountains Gazette.

I'd love to see a documented sedimentation report prior to the trail being ripped up compared to after

 

[Nerf Herder]

What does the "User groups assert their rights"... comment mean from CLR Greenhill ??

Does that mean council will challenge the Land Claim ?? based on existing social usage ?? That would be awesome if they did ?

 

[crank1979]

What does the "User groups assert their rights"... comment mean from CLR Greenhill ??

Does that mean council will challenge the Land Claim ?? based on existing social usage ?? That would be awesome if they did ?

There might be an opportunity in that.

A Crown Lands representative told me that if they could show an existing community use for land, such as races and recreational activities run by a mtb club, then a Native Title claim could be denied and the club could continue to lease the land from Crown Lands.

 

[stirk]

That article was written for the council, they are clearly embarrassed that apparently no one from Crown Land told them the soil conservation dozers were coming in to destroy the trails.

 

[tom96]

Still comes down to the same issues that we see all the time. Bike riders fuck themselves over.

There really is quite a lot of self entitled twats getting around that feel it is their god given right to ride when they want how they want be disrespectful of the public and generally mouthy and show off. And once again the majority will be made to suffer.

Anecdotal Evidence:-

I was playing music very loudly in the middle of the day and the neighbour from across the road and 5 doors up came down and asked if we could turn the music down as she had a migrane headache and the doof doof was killing her. (Insert your reaction here) <--- and this is why we suffer as a group. I turned the music down no I didn't have to but it was a courteous thing to do. How many of you just thought Fuck her its the middle of the day if I want to play my music I will?

Disrespectful and stupid is when government departments listen to the cries of bored retirees and make a decision aimed at the views of six people instead of the people who get out there and enjoy the environment. Putting a big fence around something that all of a sudden has some heritage and interest in a history that isn't documented for the public to see and enjoy reading isn't doing anything to build community relationships and promoting a healthy active future for all involved in the area. It isn't fucking hard to get along and respect the history of all involved and understanding each other's views on it can actually make good of a bad situation. The result the guys here have suffered is a crock of steaming shit.

If some folks that aren't part of the mountain biking community use Rotorburn as a resource for gaining some info on people's views then please feel free to sign up and join in, we'd love to have advance our conversations and get some positive action to move forward and create some interest in potential projects that will benefit everybody. You can of course sit on your hands and not be part of something great.

Let's not turn this thread into a land rights discussion.

I'm not one of the people who built the track that was destroyed, no... Trees were cut down, I think two of them went, probably only 5" thick at most but still, shouldn't have, the builders get that now. The track was built with drainage in mind though, worked really well, too. The issue was a lot of dead, already fallen trees were cut to use for building. People don't see that, they see cut logs and immediately assume they were cut down trees. Then massive healthy gums were cut down to stop them, huh...

Interesting is good... have people come and air their views or move some dirt. I think some direct communication can only be a good thing at the moment.

I think one thing to remember is that Councils and Crown land, NPWS stuff do what they are supposed to do is manage land. Sharks eat people because that's what they do and we accept it.

We all know unauthorised trails are not approved or liked and are illegal to build. However do you think council doesn't know every bit of unauthorised trail,it just takes a 2 minute look on Strava to find them all. BMCC staff only closed OBR because they were made to by the Councillors getting carried under major organised resident lobbying. Staff were actually legalising OBR. BMCC haven't closed any other trails since. They may be very slow with excessive paperwork, lacking funds, weak in front of the green lobby and not generally supportive, but they are improving slowly.

What makes them act is serious resident lobbying. The seed for OBR being closed was someone telling a resident to "Get Fucked!" while she held her toddler. He told that to the wrong person because she was clever and proactive and built a powerful lobby group against riders using the riders failings as fuel.

So tickle the dragon and it has to wake up. We have to be realistic about it. If riders get too obvious, too destructive, noisy or whatever it can set the wheels in motion. Its a shame that with Chicken Run there was a lot of very responsible behaviour going on there that doesn't get noticed. Any trails existence is tenuous and it really on takes one dickhead on either side of the fence to set things off.

Assuming this refers to Knapsack.

I've never checked out the trail myself, so have no personal opinion. However, I will say that I've heard a whole lot of criticism from riders. That doesn't necessarily mean the trails suck in an objective sense; it just means that they don't interest certain people. From what I can tell, they don't interest people who like to hit big jumps on DH bikes. Which probably just means that they are lacking in big jumps that are fun on big bikes.

In the end, we all have our personal preferences for the type of trail we like to ride. A single trail is never going to please everybody. However, unless there are legal trails that please the people who would otherwise go to the effort of building illegally, then there will always be illegal trails.

There might be an opportunity in that.

A Crown Lands representative told me that if they could show an existing community use for land, such as races and recreational activities run by a mtb club, then a Native Title claim could be denied and the club could continue to lease the land from Crown Lands.

This is interesting I wonder what would have to be done for this to become a possible outcome for the trails would be amazing if it could beagilised and permission giving for it to be run by a club and events held

Curious to see if they is actually a possibility and wat would have to be done

Any ideas?

 

[hazza6542]

Holy shit. Just read the comments on this article.

http://www.bluemountainsgazette.com...illegal-mountain-bike-tracks-in-mt-riverview/

Facebook is something you want to consider before posting publically. This tool assaulted a mountain biker and was put on trial and doesn't even live in this fucking country. Hopefully my reply gets posted, something about moderation it's gotta be checked first. I think I said everything I needed to and was pretty polite about it all too.

 

[foxpuppet]

Holy shit. Just read the comments on this article.

http://www.bluemountainsgazette.com...illegal-mountain-bike-tracks-in-mt-riverview/

Facebook is something you want to consider before posting publically. This tool assaulted a mountain biker and was put on trial and doesn't even live in this fucking country. Hopefully my reply gets posted, something about moderation it's gotta be checked first. I think I said everything I needed to and was pretty polite about it all too.

Yep Mike Vandeman - Professional Mtb hater, there's a doco about him somewhere.

http://reviews.mtbr.com/anti-mounta...sault-with-a-deadly-weapon-against-two-bikers


http://www.outsideonline.com/1808171/trial-mike-vandeman

Looks normal enough

http://reviews.mtbr.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/MikeV.jpg

Pretty much just cuts and pastes the same old rhetoric when he finds articles about trails being destroyed, full time troll and Eco warrior.

 

[stirk]

What a dangerous knob of a person Mike Vandeman is.

Attacking people with a saw he just happened to have with him in the bush he loves so much. I think he must be out there very strategically cutting bridges and wooden berms so they break when a rider comes along. He probably secretly films it too.

 

[DeBloot]

Sounds like a nobody who feels that he should be somebody
Pity he is given such notoriety
Best to stick him in the ground and make a berm out of him

 

[thecat]

If a walker builds an unofficial trail it's heralded as a good thing

http://www.lithgowmercury.com.au/story/3207349/tyrons-passion-a-bonus-for-lithgow/?cs=1212


Don't get me wrong. I think Ty did a great job. As a bush walker I have known about the falls for years, use to climb on the cliffs up that way, and have often said it's a shame more locals didn't know about it. But the double standards are a farse. I could do nothing but laugh at the positive comments from a certain "environmental" group lavished on the walking track on an earlier FB post. The same group whose members have done their utmost to paint us as environmental vandals even though the MTB trail they complain about was built with full DA approval with strict soil and sediment control plans (paid for by us) enforced before we could turn a sod or ready a rake.

Of course I took a screen shot of that comment for future reference

 

[thecat]

Yep Mike Vandeman - Professional Mtb hater, there's a doco about him somewhere.

I have vague memories of him trolling here back in the farkin days. or maybe it was 26inches

The doco was "The woods belong to us" I never watched as I don't think the cretin should be given any more air or thought than he has already used up

 

[Dozer]

What a dangerous knob of a person Mike Vandeman is.

I don't take too kindly to folk of his nature but I am prepared to listen to the reasons for his hatred. I've messaged him hoping he can shed some light on why he has this disgust at what we do. I might even set him up with an account on here and let him speak his mind on the forums so we can see his point of view.


You all know what that means. :target::target::target::target::target:

 

[Moggio]

If a walker builds an unofficial trail it's heralded as a good thing

Don't get me wrong. I think Ty did a great job. As a bush walker I have known about the falls for years, use to climb on the cliffs up that way, and have often said it's a shame more locals didn't know about it. But the double standards are a farse. I could do nothing but laugh at the positive comments from a certain "environmental" group lavished on the walking track on an earlier FB post. The same group whose members have done their utmost to paint us as environmental vandals even though the MTB trail they complain about was built with full DA approval with strict soil and sediment control plans (paid for by us) enforced before we could turn a sod or ready a rake.

Of course I took a screen shot of that comment for future reference

I am gobsmacked!! The sheer hypocrisy is just astounding, though not surprising.

To these people its simple Walking = Good and Bikes = Bad... and that is it.

BTW flynny who's land is it?

 

[foxpuppet]

I have vague memories of him trolling here back in the farkin days. or maybe it was 26inches

The doco was "The woods belong to us" I never watched as I don't think the cretin should be given any more air or thought than he has already used up

Seems like it never finished production. Last I saw was the trailer from 2010 and that's it.

 

[thecat]

To these people its simple Walking = Good and Bikes = Bad... and that is it.

BTW flynny who's land is it?

I'm making an assumption it is Crown land managed by council. I know they closed off an old lookout and removed some climbing bolts years ago.
It's also in Sydney Catchment zone.
As a comparison To build Pony express we had to gain Crowns Land OK to submit a DA. Then go to council with flora and Fauna assessment and a soil, sediment control plan approved by Sydney Catchment Authority (which was as detailed as where you could let spectators stand), waste management plans, traffic control and parking plans. We did all that and still coped grief and personal attacks from certain old biddies.

unapproved Walking track... How great for the community

And Dozer.... Silly move. Many people have tried reasoning with Mike over the last 20 years. Lots more have tried the suck him in and flame the hell out of him. From memory he is a qualified psycologyst, just a deranged one, he will fuck with your head, spin your world about, spam your inbox and still think it's ok to attack riders with hand saws. He enjoys it. It makes him feel important, gives him power. Best to ignore him, let him simmer in his lonely little stew

Seems like it never finished production. Last I saw was the trailer from 2010 and that's it.

I always had the feeling it was taking his side. That probably got derailed in 2010 with him being charged with assault with a deadly weapon and the subsequent trail.