COVID-19: who’s going full doomsday prep on this?

[Haakon]

They are really getting into that wealthy mindset where investing isn't taking a risk it's expecting a return with no risk attached. Almost like they are actually earning the money by working.

Oh yeah, they're the ones doing the hard yards and getting ahead - so very laudable, such benefactors.

 

[Ultra Lord]

Guessing you have not had to rent in a long time @rowdyflat guess you are a lucky Boomer? A deposit for me is a year and a half of my full wage and I'm luck be on a great salary. Australia has become a class society and it sounds like that suits you just fine?

It’s a shit situation without a doubt, but you can still do it.

I don’t mean to toot my own horn (fuck knows I need to now the misses fucked off aha), but I did it in sydney with no help on less than 100k a year before 30.

alot of my friends have fallen into the it’s too hard trap, all earn more than me. It’s still an attainable dream ffs!




what is scary is how much the banks attitude changes once your “in” though. Suddenly everyones helpful.

 

[Litenbror]

It’s a shit situation without a doubt, but you can still do it.

I don’t mean to toot my own horn (fuck knows I need to now the misses fucked off aha), but I did it in sydney with no help on less than 100k a year before 30.

alot of my friends have fallen into the it’s too hard trap, all earn more than me. It’s still an attainable dream ffs!




what is scary is how much the banks attitude changes once your “in” though. Suddenly everyones helpful.

It is possible and you have done really well getting there. What I'm getting at is it's getting more and more unattainable every year. Housing is a human right and should not be treated as just something that can be taken away from people. Imagine the outrage if all of a sudden the bank kicked you out on the street because you couldn't make 1 payment, that's how it is for renters.

What I'm getting at is having a house for your family should not be such an almost unattainable goal. You should not have to give up almost everything else to just scrap together to now be in debt to a bank for the rest of your life. Family's should be able to have a house and if someone wants an investment house make them pay the full price and run the risk like any other investment.

 

[Haakon]

 

[SummitFever]

... if someone wants an investment house make them pay the full price and run the risk like any other investment.

I quite like this idea.

Also, anyone with an investment property and an interest only loan they are now unable to service has absolutely no sympathy from me. You've made a gamble that "she'll be right" and now that its not alright I don't see why anyone should be helping you out.

 

[Ultra Lord]

It is possible and you have done really well getting there. What I'm getting at is it's getting more and more unattainable every year. Housing is a human right and should not be treated as just something that can be taken away from people. Imagine the outrage if all of a sudden the bank kicked you out on the street because you couldn't make 1 payment, that's how it is for renters.

What I'm getting at is having a house for your family should not be such an almost unattainable goal. You should not have to give up almost everything else to just scrap together to now be in debt to a bank for the rest of your life. Family's should be able to have a house and if someone wants an investment house make them pay the full price and run the risk like any other investment.

100% there should be more renter protection.
I’ve missed a few weeks rent though and never got kicked out though haha.
Been evicted due to a sale though. And a investor wanting to demolish and rebuild.
Theres a $40 difference between my mortgage and what my tenants paying in rent. Make it happen dude! Even settle on an apartment or townhouse, bring power back to the people! Viva la resistance my comrades!

or not. Rent and invest elsewhere and enjoy not having to deal with a busted hot water heater that cost $1200, blown cooktop $1000 (heavily discounted), new garage door motor $1000, tree down that damaged fence $800, council rates, new wiring and breakers for lights due to dodgy install prior to sale $3000, and $45g stamp duty because you don’t get first home buyers grant cause fuck you ultra lord. All within first year. You can still get ahead without buying.

 

[Mr Crudley]

Family's should be able to have a house and if someone wants an investment house make them pay the full price and run the risk like any other investment.

I agree for most of it but investment rental properties deductions are there indirectly to provide housing so the government doesn't have to foot a much higher bill like in housing commission. Otherwise there is little incentive.

The only options are sacrifice a lot to buy your own - that is what it is for most 'normal' folks who buy a house - there is no free ride and you go without, or rent from someone or go housing commission.

It is a shit situation that renters are getting thrown out now. I have neighbours that have been renting the same house for 20 years which they could have paid off a few times over over that duration. I guess they have their reasons.

 

[SummitFever]

I agree for most of it but investment rental properties deductions are there indirectly to provide housing so the government doesn't have to foot a much higher bill like in housing commission. Otherwise there is little incentive.

Without speculative property investment, housing would be much cheaper, most people could buy and there wouldn't be a rental property shortage. This is the way it was in the past when house prices were a lower multiple of average wages.

 

[pink poodle]

Speaking of the rich, and of the sharks is a good comparison.
I suspect if we don't bail out the rich they will get their pound of flesh some other way.
You don't get 4 houses and a lambo by being a model citizen. The sharks will eat the weak if they're not fed.

I'm already planning the glorious parade of Australian made red tractors...

They are really getting into that wealthy mindset where investing isn't taking a risk it's expecting a return with no risk attached. Almost like they are actually earning the money by working.

They read rich dad poor dad and suddenly the dead eyes were opened...



Unfortunately since the European conversion of Australia there has always been a class struggle. Lots of people are doing it tough and will do so for a long time. Our nation has spent a long time forgetting to look out for each other. Hopefully now we realise that it isn't all just about "me".


Horn tooters unite @Ultra Lord! Ummmm errrrr I mean being locked down solo makes it hard to meet women. But once the market opens...my cooking game will be on point.

 

[Mr Crudley]

Without speculative property investment, housing would be much cheaper, most people could buy and there wouldn't be a rental property shortage. This is the way it was in the past when house prices we a lower multiple of average wages.

In some places where the cool kids live then I would have to agree. If you bought a townhouse in Newtown 15 years ago then you would be sitting pretty now. There are still older cheap units (meaning sub $450k in metro Sydney) to buy and rent now but the cool kids aren't there and not one seems to be knocking the doors down to move in.

You can rightly tie some of it to investment property and speculation but the city has grown heaps in past 40 years and not all due to rentals either. It is bit of both. Houses in my average deepest darkest suburbia have gone up 8x over the past 40 years and it sure isn't Paddington or St Ives here.

 

[Haakon]

Without speculative property investment, housing would be much cheaper, most people could buy and there wouldn't be a rental property shortage. This is the way it was in the past when house prices we a lower multiple of average wages.

Yeah, that argument has been debunked a bunch of times - but its a nice little story the speculators tell themselves...

Still damn tempted to buy this house in hobart, but i fear im falling into the "its super cool and i just want it" trap. sigh.

 

[Kerplunk]

It think people need to be weary about certain investors providing a “social service” to renters.. Property investment in the big cities is pure speculation, the rent yield return simply cannot service the debt.. So the investor is reliant on capital gains whether in the short or long term for a return on their investment. They are not providing a housing cause they want to, if the cap gains are high enough in a hot market, investors leave their properties empty to save on wear and tear..

 

[pink poodle]

Evicting a residential tenant is actually a bit of a lengthy process, an certainly takes more than one missed payment.

Plenty of people borrow for investments other than property as well. Lenders do have a preference for security of their loans though.

One might begin to suspect that housing prices have perhaps been manipulated in order to control market forces and the power certain aspects have.

If you consider the place that shelter holds in the human psyche (Maslow's hierarchy of needs for example) creating angst over it helps control the people at risk. Throw food into the mix as well. And if you are worried you can't supply these to yourself + family, you're a lot less likely to risk loosing your job, take a day off O strike or protest, get around socially and uite with other like minded revolutionaries, put money aside for your militia...


Also those who are over 30 and have a family but dont own a home, how did you spend your 20s?

 

[Flow-Rider]

Burn to the stake I say, anyone that's worked their fingers to the bone to get ahead in life and never been a burden to the welfare system. I'm sure investors contradict to the govt on how much landtax they need to pay that makes it impossible to discount the rent.

Just for the record, you never could just throw tenants out, in Qld you need to give them 2 months notice prior to the lease ending and renters can leave with just 2 weeks notice before the lease expires.

Yeah, that argument has been debunked a bunch of times - but its a nice little story the speculators tell themselves...

Still damn tempted to buy this house in hobart, but i fear im falling into the "its super cool and i just want it" trap. sigh.

Govt got rid of 80% of the housing commission in my area and pushed people into private rentals.

 

[Haakon]

investors are a burden to the system. the tax perks are just another form of welfare, as is the money pulled out of the rest of the economy to service all that "wealth creation".

 

[pink poodle]

Yeah, that argument has been debunked a bunch of times - but its a nice little story the speculators tell themselves...

Still damn tempted to buy this house in hobart, but i fear im falling into the "its super cool and i just want it" trap. sigh.

Just buy the house. You have a secure job and interest rates can't get much lower. if they do it's parts a percentage, not like a drop from 8 to 3% over night. So what if the house value drops a little, as you have said it is super cool and to want it. Just throw in some epic low balls. That agent as a BMW lease to maintain! Everything else you by goes down in value.


Though knowing you it is actually. Shot house that nobody on their right mind would buy and is riddled with annoying little problems "under the hood".

 

[creaky]

The problem with applying a means test of any kind to the JobKeeper payments is it would significantly delay the delivery of funds, which would be a major problem at the moment.

 

[Flow-Rider]

investors are a burden to the system. the tax perks are just another form of welfare, as is the money pulled out of the rest of the economy to service all that "wealth creation".

You've assumed that everyone negatively gears which isn't always the case, houses can stay unrented for over six months and bills still roll in. There's a shit load of risk with real estate and it's a lot of people like Mum & Dad investors that are on a minimal wage, people just assume that all investors are all filthy rich, you just never hear the stories where people go bust.

 

[Haakon]

You've assumed that everyone negatively gears which isn't always the case, houses can stay unrented for over six months and bills still roll in. There's a shit load of risk with real estate and it's a lot of people like Mum & Dad investors that are on a minimal wage, people just assume that all investors are all filthy rich, you just never hear the stories where people go bust.

Thats the risk. and no i don't assume all are rich - its the mum and dads that are most into accessing that "welfare', kinda the point. The economy and ability of more people to have a better quality of life with housing security would be probably better off without using housing as an investment and the perks they (usually) get and letting more people access actual welfare in their retirement.

 

[Mr Crudley]

What is the alternative Plan B to provide cheap, affordable housing that doesn't rely on someone else taking the financial risk to provide it?