Dont Tase Me Bro!...

[Dozer]

Wow Dozer. You really have been sold a line by the Daily Terrorgraph/John Laws and the talkback radio set.

No, I haven't. I hate Sydney media and refuse to read or watch any of it. I haven't taken a fancy to John Laws either but I do admire his free speech.
Maybe you can educate some people to be honest and law abiding but maybe some of those people will will simply refuse to listen. It may even be a problem getting such teaching resources to these people.

 

[WolfCreekPsycho]

Ahh. So are we going to allow our police to determine guilt? Because that always works so well.

The police are not determining your guilt of whatever crime is committed. They are there to do a job which is take the offender into custody, thats all. Resisting that is where people end up getting tazered/beaten....
There is a big difference.

But because they are "crime fighters" they really only have a few strategies for dealing with these issues. I would really like to see a return to community policing - where the majority of the work police do is working with community groups to solve problems before they become crime, rather than trying to deal with the problems afterwards.

Remember there are two ways to reduce crime. Have lots of police with fancy weaponry or stop it before it becomes a problem. Have a guess which one is the cheaper option and have better outcomes all around?

.... crime has already become a problem.

Good theory and I would support it, but its a little idealistic... Im sure all the bike thieves would absolutely love something like this. Cheaper ?? I'm not so sure. You will still need police, you will still need fancy weaponry.... you would hope that there is simply much less demand for it, but there will always be a requirement for it. There would be substantial cost in setting up and running an alternative infrastructure.

Is there a police force in any major city anywhere in the world who has been able to do away with the requirement for weapons ?? (honest question cause I have not heard of one)
I know there are cities that have incredibly low instances of crime, Finland for example (incidentally one of the highest rates of firearm ownership per capita!)

I took part in a "Community Sentencing program" for a guy who was caught commiting crime in my area. Its a great program and seems to be actually making a difference in this guys life, but its still reactive and aimed at rehabillitation not mass prevention and only suitable for a very small subset.

However there will always be a requirement for law enforcement. I have seen enough unprovoked attacks on Joe public to realise that there are people who simply care very very little for anyone other than themselves. I'd like to believe all those people can be rehab'ed but I doubt it.
You could start by eradicating alcohol as its an extremely high factor in serious crime... but I doubt a community would back something like that.

 

[fallboy]

I think that video is an example of why police SHOULD NOT have tasers.

If 5 police can not handle that guy they should not be police.

The guy had no weapon and never tried to harm anyone.

The use of a tazer in that situation is pathetic.

 

[WolfCreekPsycho]

I think that video is an example of why police SHOULD NOT have tasers.

If 5 police can not handle that guy they should not be police.

The guy had no weapon and never tried to harm anyone.

The use of a tazer in that situation is pathetic.

lol a little contradictory...

I agree they should not be police... but that doesnt mean police shouldnt have tazers.

 

[Cypher]

To find out more on community policing go here: http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/...icing a descriptive overview/view paper.aspx

There was a moment in time when NSW police were doing more of this. Then Costa got the Police ministerial position and there were some reasonably big cultural shifts. For instance the NSW Police Service became the NSW Police Force - emphasising a the idea that police were a somewhat military organisation out to fight crime and not servicing the community.

Also about this time the police uniform moved from the trousers and slacks they use to wear to the paramilitary looking combat pants and boots. Nice bit of visual symbology.

Mind you, this is not the NSW Police fault. There was an election and the state controls the police. So whenever there is a state election, the political parties like to fear monger the electorate into voting for them by "getting tough on crime".

Just wait - next year in NSW it is the state election again. We will increasingly hear about the lawlessness on the streets. By the way political parties tell it, we are already post-apocolypse in terms of crime.

But level of crime has actually decreased. We are way more safer than what we used to be. Drunken assults are up, sure but the majority of crime is down. Is this because of police? In part, but not majorly. Mainly because we have had a good economic run and a lot of people have jobs and there is a focus on better education. It doesn't hurt that the heroin trade dried up also.

Do you know the people most afraid about crime are the people least likely to have crime happen to them? Middle aged women with children rarely (overall) have a criminal action against them. But these women are the most frightened about safety. They are worried about teenaged boys rampaging through their nice suburbs. Well, it doesn't really happen. When it does it is reported by all media outlets and it makes it seem like it is happening everywhere at all times. Most teenaged boys are just that. Teenaged boys and relatively harmless (until they get into a car with their mates).

So when crime is actually down, do we need to arm our police with more weapons? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Petero]

This is one tricky issue and there is always going to be two sides.

Point 1) Tasers used in place of Firearms; replacement of a lethal weapon with what is classed as a 'non lethal' weapon.

Point 2) Tasers, as have been proven, are NOT actually a 'non lethal' weapon. The taser has the potential to be as lethal as any firearm.

Point 3) The classification of the Taser as a 'non lethal' weapon leads to misuse and over use of the Taser by the police force.

So basically Tasers are good AND bad.

Personally I think Tasers are good when used appropriately. I think upgrading of the classification of the Taser from a 'non lethal weapon' and better training of the police force would result in less misuse. I believe that tasers should be used as a last resort, when a police man/woman feels substantially physically threatened, and not just because some lowlife scum is failing to co-operate (although i secretly wish those gene pools would be eliminated from society)..

While there will always be d*ckhead cops and heavy handed policing, the majority of the time the cops are doing their best at protecting US, the everyday public.

 

[Lemontime]

I think that video is an example of why police SHOULD NOT have tasers.

If 5 police can not handle that guy they should not be police.

The guy had no weapon and never tried to harm anyone.

The use of a tazer in that situation is pathetic.

If he had done nothing wrong why was he resisting arrest so much? You don't know the back story so you can't really comment on the use of the tazer in this situation.

IMO: Classic american comedy <3

 

[elliotdhmcgeary]

I'm all for it. If you get yourself in a position where the fuzz see a need to nail you to the floor then you more than likely deserve it.

This. Cop's do get a bit of a name for being more aggressive than they need to be but from my experience in those cases that i've seen / heard about, it's generally dickheads who are making their jobs much harder than need be.

I've found most police to be be quite alright - as an under ager i've been pulled up once or twice for having a beer or something in my hand, a friendly hello to them and they generally just turn a blind eye. Other situations where people have been somewhat disrespectful get a lot more shit back from the cop.

Don't be a pain in the ass to the cop, chances are you won't get a tase!

 

[fallboy]

If he had done nothing wrong why was he resisting arrest so much? You don't know the back story so you can't really comment on the use of the tazer in this situation.

IMO: Classic american comedy <3

I know that 5 trained professionals should be able to handle one weaponless person with no difficulty.

I think id tasers were used instead of a gun that is fine. What I think you will find though is that they will be used as a first resort instead of a last resort.

Intimidation should be last resort full stop.

 

[scblack]

I know that 5 trained professionals should be able to handle one weaponless person with no difficulty.

You would think so, but that is actually not necessarily the case. If drugged, or simply worked up into a state, a person can hold off several people. (I am not saying that they will always, but it is possible).

If there is a chance of injury to the cops, I'd be tasering too.

 

[Regan of Gong]

Agree with Cypher mostly.

More than 360 deaths have been recoreded in the USA that are associated with Tasers, as of July 2009 (see this Amnesty International article). Tasers are currently being used as a weapon that is catergorically "non lethal" when this is clearly not the case, and is a disengaged form of coercion for the Police.

Sure, there's definitely a use for them before an officer chooses to use their weapon, as they're generally not deadly, but they've been rolled out to all frontline police officers. NSW police only provide guidelines for when a taser can be used, but not for when it cannot be used- surely this is concerning to someone other than me? Watch this video from Perth as 9 police officers find it appropriate to taser an unarmed Aboriginal bloke 13 times while he's already at the station- Video. Surely there is a problem here.

Statistics on Taser use provided by NSW Police
1,059 incident of use of taser.
61% involved draw and cover
18% involved discharging barbs (Firing the taser)
8% involved using the taser in drive stun mode
13% were accidental discharges

13% accidental discharges?! And we give these guys guns as well?!

 

[Lemontime]

At a peer support camp in year 10 this little fella went off his nut at some other kid and was quite intent on seriously messing him up. I had to run across this field and do some mad crash tackle on that joker, and then hold him down for more than an hour. All I can say is that it's bloody hard to hold someone down if they're really really intent on you NOT holding them down (this kid was like 3/4 my height and skinny as shit).

 

[Ivan]

http://sixtyminutes.ninemsn.com.au/stories/764199/lethal-force

 

[brisneyland]

When tasers were introduced I thought they sounded like a pretty rational idea.

Unfortunately, reality has shown that many police officers clearly do not have the intelligence or judgement to use them appropriately. Some people have said in this thread that they'd rather be tased than shot - I'm sure I would too. BUT, tasers are being used in situations that no reasonable person would use a live firearm - tasing already immobilised suspects for example. Would YOU shoot (with a live firearm) a suspect already detained at a station THIRTEEN times?

I saw somewhere a witness to one of the recent accounts saying that one of the recent fatalities had already been immobilised and was face down on the ground when he was tased several more times. Not too sure how truthful it was; I'll see if I can find the original article.

As an aside, the police were in the ED recently interviewing some MVA victim when the drugged up patient in the bay next door (who'd also been in an accident and had a cervical spine immobilisation collar on) tried to leave the department when he simply wasn't lucid enough to make that decision himself. The coppers chased him down the hallway, tackled him hard, grabbed his head, hyperextended his neck WITH THE COLLAR ON and repeatedly smashed his face into the floor. Fucking heroes. That's only one of the many dealings we've had with them.

 

[Morgan123]

No, as has been said they're great when used correctly but are also being used more and more when they don't need to be. Every police officer in that video should be charged, disgusting.

Speaking of non-lethal weapons did anyone see the death from capsicum spray?

 

[Bjorn]

I voted in favour of tazers, but I'm concerned about the use of them as a punitive measure.
I remember them being shown on ABC's "Towards 2000" in the early 1980's; they were described as having been designed to incapacitate Angel Dust users. They were intended as a weapon of last resort and were more effective than anything other than a kill shot.

Paraphrased from Wikipedia: The Electro-Muscular Disruption weapon (taser) overloads the nervous system causing involuntary muscular convulsions. However, if it is used in 'drive stun' mode it is effectively a cattle prod causing only localised pain and can be used as a torture device.

The problem is not the device itself, but as has been mentioned already, it is with those that use them and abuse them. A German? documentary screened on SBS a number of years ago drew attention to the routine use by U.S. police of tasers against unarmed people engaged in passive resistance.
I think there needs to be serious controls on the situations in which they can be drawn and deployed. I was heartened to see the NSW Police Commisioner Andrew Scipione has stated that all tasers issued to officers will be equipped with video cameras that will automatically record any confrontation. They have the potential to save lives in situations where otherwise guns might be deployed, but must be used appropriately.

 

[nikmcc]

I accidently voted wrong...

The double negative got the best of me.

Im all for tazers, I reckon cops should have more power to do what they are paid to do.

Its pretty easy to not get tazered, If a cop gives you directions, you follow. Simple

 

[Regan of Gong]

I accidently voted wrong...

The double negative got the best of me.

Im all for tazers, I reckon cops should have more power to do what they are paid to do.

Its pretty easy to not get tazered, If a cop gives you directions, you follow. Simple

Assuming:

a) You're not messed up on alcohol or drugs.
b) You don't have a mental illness which may inhibit your capacity to follow reasonable directions.
c) The police officer is acting in a reasonable and lawful manner (what they're actully paid to do)

 

[dcrofty]

I haven't taken a fancy to John Laws either but I do admire his free speech.

Dunno about 'free', I hear he charges a fair bit

Don't be a pain in the ass to the cop, chances are you won't get a tase!

I kind of agree, but stories of cops going too far with them just keep cropping up.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/09/police-taser-great-grandm_n_213218.html

Its pretty easy to not get tazered, If a cop gives you directions, you follow. Simple

You have a very black and white view of a world full of shades of grey.

 

[Hex515]

[Edit - already been covered]


I've always wondered what its like to be tazered...