E Bike at Cross Country Endurance Event

[Dozer]

You're saying... anyone that wants to have fun in anything can't unless they're an expert or fit in that thing. Are. You. Serious? So if I'm not fit, then I can't enjoy mountain biking via ebikes? If I'm not fit, then I can't enjoy swimming at the beach with flippers? If I hate game controllers, then I can't enjoy FPS games via a keyboard and mouse? Fuck off kent.

I still don't like the stigma that riding an ebike is effortless either. Riding any bike takes effort and sweat and a level of fitness. You still have to work really hard to get to the level of a fit XC rider on a pedal assist bike. If you think about it, it takes MORE effort and skill and strength in some areas of riding. Ebikes are still a lot of effort but it's now FUN where it wasn't before.

The irony............

I'm pretty close to moving any E bike related thread to off topic 'cause. ya know, it isn't related to mountain biking.

 

[pink poodle]

I can't decide which animation best describes my reaction:

:target:opcorn::clap2:

 

[mtb101]

so in summary;

anyone who rides a pedal powered mountain bike, knows a bike with a motor is probably a 'motorbike'

anyone who races a mountain bike with a motor and thinks they're pretty cool ... aren't!

anyone riding a 'motorbike' with pedals, aren't a bad person, its just that we know they probably don't have the skills, fitness, experience and the motivation to embrace the health and fitness benefits mountain biking can give you.

anyone who rides a pedal powered bike will forever not be keen on a fat skilless guy claiming to be just as good as the guy who pedals up hills and rides down them with their legs.

anyone who pays $7000+ for a lightweight motorbike with pedals (after being told its a heavy mountain bike with a motor) is a ..........!

anyone on a pedal powered mountain bike, knows that motorised off road vehicles will be a threat to their trail networks.

finally mountain biking is a pretty cool, spiritual experience, one with nature and all that, it aren't that hard only takes a few hours per week to really get in the groove and get the flow, a motor is going to rob you of that experience and the passion we all feel when we ride. sorry.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Maybe Turner does not have an invested interest in ebikes because he doesn't sell any. Is this possible?

That's quite possibly part of it, as well as an e-biker crashing head on into his mrs.

From what I have taken from his rant and other informed statements on the topic, is it's mostly a land access issue (?), not a big issue here in comparison, but in America ebikes my very well result in the closure of many riding destinations, hikers, riders and horse peeps don't get along over there. As in the hikers are very vocal and powerful in their lobbying, any excuse to rid themselves of having to share with the MTB brigade. Probably not so much of an issue, as we don't have the population density and demand on our park lands to the same degree.

Edit: What if I strap a vibrator onto my bike? Does that make me gay? Or does it make my bike an ebike?

I have a but plug on my bike, it's not gay unless another bloke is helping you mount it.

Anyone know of the 'rules' regarding an ebike (with a throttle) - therefore a motorbike, at places such as Thredbo, Buller or anywhere with 'formal' chairlift or shuttle access? I know, they can ride to the top, but they are still on sanction trails with some form of professional liability / indemnity insurance.

Is it allowed, as in does insurance covered it, has anyone ever tried to take a 5k watt stealth bike to one of these places?

 

[Shinigami]

Iirc if it has a throttle it's motorbike by the law, and given Thredbo is in a national Park I'd lean towards it not being allowed

 

[Mr Crudley]

Is the vibrator strapped onto your seat in a vertical orientation?

Makes a difference on how I'd answer the question

There is a bit of tapered seatpost action in Douche of the day that might interest you.

Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk

 

[pink poodle]

From what I have taken from his rant and other informed statements on the topic, is it's mostly a land access issue (?), not a big issue here in comparison, but in America ebikes my very well result in the closure of many riding destinations, hikers, riders and horse peeps don't get along over there. As in the hikers are very vocal and powerful in their lobbying, any excuse to rid themselves of having to share with the MTB brigade. Probably not so much of an issue, as we don't have the population density and demand on our park lands to the same degree.

Things must be quite different in Victoria. Here it is a constant shit fight, including (but not so much at the moment) trail vandalism. One of the great local bushland spots (wedged between a hospital and a large park) used to have some great little single track and small jumps in it...constant vandalism and hostility made it not worth the effort. Last time I remember riding there some dickheads threw rocks at me from behind their fence...I replied with a brick. They make a loud noise when they hit colourbond. Then there was nearly the need for fists! Fortunately one of my buddies calmed everybody down.

 

[Mywifesirrational]

Things must be quite different in Victoria. Here it is a constant shit fight, including (but not so much at the moment) trail vandalism. One of the great local bushland spots (wedged between a hospital and a large park) used to have some great little single track and small jumps in it...constant vandalism and hostility made it not worth the effort. Last time I remember riding there some dickheads threw rocks at me from behind their fence...I replied with a brick. They make a loud noise when they hit colourbond. Then there was nearly the need for fists! Fortunately one of my buddies calmed everybody down.

There is certainly some issues, mostly around access close to metro Melbourne, conflict with various other user groups and therefore local councils and parks vic.

But overall, it feels like we are getting more and more legal trails, and legal networks are slowly expanding there trails as well.

Riding in the 90's almost every where we used to ride was either illegal or a gray area, now days, there is many excellent options surrounding melbourne for all sorts of riding.

We also have more rural / regional locations building and improving trail networks as well.

MTB clubs and MTB advocates in general have done an amazing job over the last 20 years in Vic.

Perhaps more e-bikes, meaning more riders, will result in even more trails, or will it go the other way, only going to take one or two dickheads doing the wrong thing, it anger 2000 geriatrics in one of the walking clubs, and those old buggers have time on there hands to complain incessantly.

 

[pink poodle]

There is certainly some issues, mostly around access close to metro Melbourne, conflict with various other user groups and therefore local councils and parks vic.

But overall, it feels like we are getting more and more legal trails, and legal networks are slowly expanding there trails as well.

Riding in the 90's almost every where we used to ride was either illegal or a gray area, now days, there is many excellent options surrounding melbourne for all sorts of riding.

We also have more rural / regional locations building and improving trail networks as well.

MTB clubs and MTB advocates in general have done an amazing job over the last 20 years in Vic.

Perhaps more e-bikes, meaning more riders, will result in even more trails, or will it go the other way, only going to take one or two dickheads doing the wrong thing, it anger 2000 geriatrics in one of the walking clubs, and those old buggers have time on there hands to complain incessantly.

I'm pretty sure nsw is a long way behind the rest of the nation. Except in the power of whingers. I could go on and on, but I'd hate to derail the thread.

 

[bikeyoulongtime]

The irony............

I'm pretty close to moving any E bike related thread to off topic 'cause. ya know, it isn't related to mountain biking.

^^^ I like this thinking. Philosophically speaking I'm going to shred shit out of everything while I'm relatively young and relatively strong, and accept that as I get older I may not be able to do some things as easily and spend more time in the whisky on the verandah phase, or climbing, or doing yoga. I'll buy an e-bike instead of a car, but it won't be for riding in the woods. I really like this philosophy of acceptance and change, and yes I've done it before so I know what it feels like (used to breathe skateboarding until I physically couldn't - I didn't get an e-skateboard). Actually, mountain biking *is* the thing I do because I'm old and broken

back on topic, personally I don't enter XC endurance races for all the reasons OP mentioned, can't see pedal activated motorbikes making things easier/better and I agree with the expressed opinion (sorry forgot who) about racing them on a different day/track, if people must race them...

Or just race gravity enduro, or bugger racing at all. I guess that sucks if you really enjoy long distance lap races :/

 

[toodles]

Perhaps more e-bikes, meaning more riders, will result in even more trails, or will it go the other way, only going to take one or two dickheads doing the wrong thing, it anger 2000 geriatrics in one of the walking clubs, and those old buggers have time on there hands to complain incessantly.

To the undiscerning eye, there's little difference between an illegally modified, no speed limit 5kW e-bike and any other e-bike. If/when land managers decide to ban them/close trails after safety incidents I only hope they limit it to "no motorised bikes" and not "no bikes". E-bikes are piggy-backing off of conventional bikes for trail access as we all know they won't let motorbikes in State Forests/protected areas. I just hope that if it stirs up trail damage issues or safety issues that people are able to see e-bikes as being different to normal bikes.

On the thread's original topic, race organisers are going to have to have a degree in electronics engineering to scrutineer bikes if they're going to run e-bike categories, let alone allow them in with normal bikes. I wonder what the MTBA insurance underwriters have to say about motorised and non-motorised participants in the same race.

 

[Flow-Rider]

To the undiscerning eye, there's little difference between an illegally modified, no speed limit 5kW e-bike and any other e-bike. If/when land managers decide to ban them/close trails after safety incidents I only hope they limit it to "no motorised bikes" and not "no bikes". E-bikes are piggy-backing off of conventional bikes for trail access as we all know they won't let motorbikes in State Forests/protected areas. I just hope that if it stirs up trail damage issues or safety issues that people are able to see e-bikes as being different to normal bikes.

Someone brought this up a few years and I don't know if laws have been changed since then but from what I understand any motorised vehicle in a stateforest/protected area needs to be registered and for that to happen they need to pass ADR compliance. If you look on some state wild life park sites they carefully use words to state pedalecs are considered the same as bikes by them as long as they are under 250watts.

On the thread's original topic, race organisers are going to have to have a degree in electronics engineering to scrutineer bikes if they're going to run e-bike categories, let alone allow them in with normal bikes. I wonder what the MTBA insurance underwriters have to say about motorised and non-motorised participants in the same race.

Haha! Yeah, just get a few electric motors rewound differently so that they have more torque or speed depending on the course for the race day. Most forms of motor racing are governed by a third party these days that scrutinises the vehicle. Some people that I know chose mountainbiking as a sport because it's not always the person with the most money that wins. You can't buy skills and fitness, you've practically got to earn them. In some instances money helps but the playing field is more level.

 

[The Duckmeister]

Anyone know of the 'rules' regarding an ebike (with a throttle) - therefore a motorbike, at places such as Thredbo, Buller or anywhere with 'formal' chairlift or shuttle access? I know, they can ride to the top, but they are still on sanction trails with some form of professional liability / indemnity insurance.

Is it allowed, as in does insurance covered it, has anyone ever tried to take a 5k watt stealth bike to one of these places?

Throttle-controlled bikes are illegal for any use outside private property. The legal definitions of a pedal-assist E-bike aside from the 250W maximum power include that the bike must be capable of being pedalled without the assistance of the power unit, and crucially, the power unit must only engage in response to pedal input; pedalling is the *primary* motive source of the bike.

Anything else is a motorbike, which must be registered, and comply with the relevant ADRs in order to be registerable. If it can't be registered, and isn't a legally-compliant e-bike, it can't be used on public land

 

[steve jobs' pancreas]

Sweet zombie Jesus this thing won't die

 

[Mr Crudley]

Sweet zombie Jesus this thing won't die

I'm just waiting for how we can differentiate between 249W vs 251W motors. This thread still has legs.

Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk

 

[link1896]

I'm just waiting for how we can differentiate between 249W vs 251W motors. This thread still has legs.

Sent from my F5121 using Tapatalk

The National Institute of Standards and Technology(NIST) issued the FIPS 140-69 Publication Series to coordinate the requirements and standards for cryptography modules that include both hardware and software components of eBikes. Protection of a cryptographic module within an eBike security system is necessary to maintain the confidentiality and integrity of the information protected by the module. The operator will be required to have a Dallas hardware key embedded into their wrist enabling 2048 bit rsa keys, to enable licensing and maintain 249 watts compliance.

 

[ozzybmx]

Sweet zombie Jesus this thing won't die

Die !!! They are the biggest selling sector in Europe at the moment.

In ever aspect of MTB, Aus has been the fore front, 29" bikes were only being sold in the UK in the last couple of years, we've had them since 2007, Fatbikes are only trending in the Uk and Europe in the last few years too.

They are seriously here to stay, not only a fad... its like laziness in a hipster fashion that is not going to out of style. I can ride 40km quicker than a MTBer can ride 20km and still candy crush 4 levels while sipping my skinny chi latte before that bogan finished his ride.

I only feel for the backlash, for maybe only a few years while landowners adjust to the shock. If they ever do...

How do you ONLY allow pedal assist... a motor is a motor.

 

[stirk]

How do you ONLY allow pedal assist... a motor is a motor.

With a swift coat hanger manoeuvre.....

 

[Refreshinglygood]

Cost

I think the cost of the bikes will mean that we shouldn't have to worry about presence on trails for now. But that won't last long

 

[ozzybmx]

I think the cost of the bikes will mean that we shouldn't have to worry about presence on trails for now. But that won't last long

Some people with pretty average fitness spend $1000's trying to loose a kilo of weight to make their bike easier to pedal uphill... I can only imagine what the for 250-500w of pedalling for free would be worth.