Electric Vehicles etc

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
I don't think they're the end of the world but they do impact the financial viability of the product. When I looked at the first gen Tesla powerwall I needed the batteries to last for 15 years to break even and there was no guarantee that they would last that long based on what I would need the battery to do (I would need the battery to handle a full charge/discharge cycle every day). The new product has double the capacity so maybe it will break even in 7.5 years, but if say the double conversion makes it 15% less efficient then that pushes the break-even point out another year or so.
a 15 year projection of reliability is fairy land stuff, IF the batteries were housed in a temperature and humidity controlled environment , stored correctly and maintained frequently,the best you could hope for would be half that.
I have seen UPS systems that have hundreds of batteries with 1000's of amps potential, installed in server room enviros having full battery replacements every 5 years, and that is without constant charge and discharge cycles!
as soon as you have one cell go down, the rest try to carry the weight, shortening the life of the whole installation.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
a 15 year projection of reliability is fairy land stuff, IF the batteries were housed in a temperature and humidity controlled environment , stored correctly and maintained frequently,the best you could hope for would be half that.
I have seen UPS systems that have hundreds of batteries with 1000's of amps potential, installed in server room enviros having full battery replacements every 5 years, and that is without constant charge and discharge cycles!
as soon as you have one cell go down, the rest try to carry the weight, shortening the life of the whole installation.
Let’s just say the Tesla pack bears very very little resemblance to a UPS system... May as well compare a combine harvester with an S class - they’re both internal combustion engines right?
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
how is a powerwall installation any different than a UPS
its a battery pack, an inverter/rectifier and some sort of filtering
 

hifiandmtb

Sphincter beanie
What sort of chemistry was used in the UPS battery packs? How smart was the battery management?

You do know that battery tech is advancing, yeah?
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
What sort of chemistry was used in the UPS battery packs? How smart was the battery management?

You do know that battery tech is advancing, yeah?
It depends on the size and application, I have seen NiCad, VRLA, AGM and Lion batteries all fail due to varying circumstances, yes batteries are advancing rapidly, but the fact remains that they are very susceptible to the wrong climatic conditions
how smart was the battery management, we are talking about pieces of equipment worth $100,000+ , I would say quite advanced!
im not talking about pissy little plug in units.
 

flamin'trek

Likes Bikes and Dirt
a 15 year projection of reliability is fairy land stuff, IF the batteries were housed in a temperature and humidity controlled environment , stored correctly and maintained frequently,the best you could hope for would be half that.
I have seen UPS systems that have hundreds of batteries with 1000's of amps potential, installed in server room enviros having full battery replacements every 5 years, and that is without constant charge and discharge cycles!
as soon as you have one cell go down, the rest try to carry the weight, shortening the life of the whole installation.
Not quite a valid comparison. UPS, by its nature must have very close to 100% reliability and capacity. The chemistry of those batteries will be different as well becuase they are designed to maintain full charge most of the time and be used occasionally. Compare that with car, phone or other batteries that are designed to be cycled much more regularly and don’t require the same level of reliability.

I get your point though, batteries in vehicles are largely untested in the long term.
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
The battery mgmt used in mobile shelters ain't great. And the a/c often fails.
that's because the A/C in phone shelters are not classed as critical and therefore not connected to the 48Vdc battery cabinets..
telco companies skimp on not connecting these to any sort of UPS and run the gauntlet with duration of outages Vs Temp rise in the cabin
Industry practice is NOT to connect any mechanical load to the UPS system FYI!
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
Was having this discussion last week. A woman from Oslo my age has never owned car and her husband doesn’t have one either. They live in an apartment in Oslo, walk/tram/cycle everywhere and get the train to their mountain holiday house and walk (or ski...) the few kms from the station.

This is common around Europe. Must be nice having decent public transport. I was in Bonn and for a city with the same population as Canberra it had train and tram system more like Melbourne’s that deals with its population!
 

flamin'trek

Likes Bikes and Dirt
It is a problem. Public transport is rubbish becuase no one uses it and no one uses public transport because it is rubbish.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
People here hate the light rail. But they'll get used to it. Cars are inefficient full stop, not just ICE cars it's one thing I dislike about Elin Musk' s hyperloop, it continues to support cars. From what I've read it won't solve the problem either and will still leave poor people in traffic. I hate that my only viable choice to get somewhere quick where I live is car then bike, then mass transit.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
People here hate the light rail. But they'll get used to it. Cars are inefficient full stop, not just ICE cars it's one thing I dislike about Elin Musk' s hyperloop, it continues to support cars. From what I've read it won't solve the problem either and will still leave poor people in traffic. I hate that my only viable choice to get somewhere quick where I live is car then bike, then mass transit.
I had heard though that Canberra’s light rail patronage numbers are above those modelled - apparently it’s caught on quickly.

Next problem is the capital authority being dicks about the route for the line to Woden... They’re worried about aesthetics. In Canberra! Lol...

Hyperloop isn’t cars, it’s basically ultra high speed rail. The tunnel thing for cars is another pet project again.
 
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