Electric Vehicles etc

Scotty T

Walks the walk
Saving the planet with big brain thinking.
Yeah by 7 star I mean the real shit that makes a difference like sealing the envelope, window size and orientation, insulation, double glazing. I totally agree it's not the right system in current form to achieve energy efficiency because of the stupid shit like outdoor clotheslines and water tanks, and the fact you can still have a glazed western wall.

You'd have to go a lot higher, or simply mandate better R values as minimum standards for the insulation. The insulation change would be the most cost effective way to do it too.
That all depends where you live. Queensland, shade and ventilation give you the most bang for buck, Canberra sealing the envelope does. Insulation is second, double glazing is third on the priority list for Canberra. Roof insulation in Qld. We are the worst on the planet as far as building climate functional homes.

Once again it costs more money up front to do it properly (kinda like electric cars) so we'll just wear the ongoing fuel costs because we want marble benchtops.
 

Squidfayce

Eats Squid
Yeah by 7 star I mean the real shit that makes a difference like sealing the envelope, window size and orientation, insulation, double glazing. I totally agree it's not the right system in current form to achieve energy efficiency because of the stupid shit like outdoor clotheslines and water tanks, and the fact you can still have a glazed western wall.



That all depends where you live. Queensland, shade and ventilation give you the most bang for buck, Canberra sealing the envelope does. Insulation is second, double glazing is third on the priority list for Canberra. Roof insulation in Qld. We are the worst on the planet as far as building climate functional homes.

Once again it costs more money up front to do it properly (kinda like electric cars) so we'll just wear the ongoing fuel costs because we want marble benchtops.
I would have thought increasing the R value of your insulation from say 1.5 in the walls to 4 would trump shade/airflow n QLD. Wouldn't not letting your home fluctuate in temp be more valuable that giving you access to a cross breeze?

If by sealing the envelope you're referring to making the property airtight (as in passivhaus) , i think you'll find that's not as cost effective as whacking in a R4 or higher bat. The sealing process requires additional work, materials (and testing if you want the certification) where just changing the type of bat youre putting in doesnt add overhead above the difference in the batt cost (which is pretty negligible in comparison to everything else, about 20 bucks a bag going from R1.5-R4).

Insulation in both hot and cold climates keeps the temps stable. Gold standard would be to do the lot, but at that point youre talking a fair whack of investment. Unsur ethe return stacks up on a dollar for dollar basis for most.
 

Stredda

Runs naked through virgin scrub
Welcome to Tasmania.
I suggest you start with the roof and work your way down.
I'm about to move into our first proper house in the big town of Penguin here in Tassie after about 20 years of living in an old building in Latrobe that was built in 1882, was an Odd Fellows hall, a picture theatre, a roller skating ring, a second hand/antique shop and lastly a Patchwork/Quilting shop.
The latter was my wifes business and there's a two bedroom flat upstairs and after my wife finished up the shop we moved in downstairs too.
Bloody cold place in the winter. The new place in Penguin has double glazing, ducted heating and good northern aspect. I'll certainly be interested to see the difference.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
Welcome to Tasmania.
I suggest you start with the roof and work your way down.
Its colder in Canberra... Yeah, roof has "some" insulation in it, but come summer it's going to need the corrugated iron roof lifted off and new insulation put it. Under floor I can do now though.
 

Squidfayce

Eats Squid
Its colder in Canberra... Yeah, roof has "some" insulation in it, but come summer it's going to need the corrugated iron roof lifted off and new insulation put it. Under floor I can do now though.
don't just add new bats in, get an anticon blanket to go under the steel roof sheeting aswell. Relatively small cost for an exponential increase in performance. Go the thickest you can if the budget allows.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
don't just add new bats in, get an anticon blanket to go under the steel roof sheeting aswell. Relatively small cost for an exponential increase in performance. Go the thickest you can if the budget allows.
Havent really got into it yet, but it has a layer under the tin. Its a very shallow roof pitch, so needs to go in from the top. Got my head in through the kitchen exhaust grill hole a bit to see what's in there. I'll think more about it when i get to it ;)
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
Insulation in both hot and cold climates keeps the temps stable. Gold standard would be to do the lot, but at that point youre talking a fair whack of investment. Unsur ethe return stacks up on a dollar for dollar basis for most.
Dollar value return on investment thinking is the biggest part of the climate problem. We're fucked if that doesn't change. So I guess we are fucked.

I paid over twice the money for my solar system as people pay now for the same because I bought it ~6 years ago. That's an entire very decent mountain bike, I must be fucking mad?!? It might pay itself off in 10 years was the return on investment at the time. I've stopped 41 tonnes of CO2 going into the atmosphere. Meanwhile, people who could well afford to buy solar panels said "ah no the return on investment is too long, the technology will get cheaper and energy is really cheap, I will probably move to my next McMansion by then, I want my marble bechtops and shed full of toys and overseas holidays" didn't stop any CO2 going into the atmosphere for the past 6 years, most likely they put more in. Most people still don't give a fuck about this stuff until they are forced to.

Insulation is great, but if you don't keep the warm/cool air in it loses much of it's benefit. We're doing our house with these guys, this article gives some explanation of what is cost effective based on a program that was run in ACT. This article is from 2012. People talk about this stuff as if it is a new thing, because Australia hasn't been forced to give a fuck ever.

 

PJO

in me vL comy
Its colder in Canberra... Yeah, roof has "some" insulation in it, but come summer it's going to need the corrugated iron roof lifted off and new insulation put it. Under floor I can do now though.
Likely that the homes are built to a better standard in Canberra.
Lots of old and cold homes in Tassie.
 

leitch

Feelin' a bit rrranty
Insulation is great, but if you don't keep the warm/cool air in it loses much of it's benefit. We're doing our house with these guys, this article gives some explanation of what is cost effective based on a program that was run in ACT. This article is from 2012. People talk about this stuff as if it is a new thing, because Australia hasn't been forced to give a fuck ever.
Agreed. Should start another thread over this discussion, haha... but insulation is one thing but if you're just venting all your hot air out through leaky window frames or gaps in floorboards etc, it's not doing the job it could. Gap sealing and insulation gotta go hand in hand.
 

Stredda

Runs naked through virgin scrub
Dollar value return on investment thinking is the biggest part of the climate problem. We're fucked if that doesn't change. So I guess we are fucked.

I paid over twice the money for my solar system as people pay now for the same because I bought it ~6 years ago. That's an entire very decent mountain bike, I must be fucking mad?!? It might pay itself off in 10 years was the return on investment at the time. I've stopped 41 tonnes of CO2 going into the atmosphere. Meanwhile, people who could well afford to buy solar panels said "ah no the return on investment is too long, the technology will get cheaper and energy is really cheap, I will probably move to my next McMansion by then, I want my marble bechtops and shed full of toys and overseas holidays" didn't stop any CO2 going into the atmosphere for the past 6 years, most likely they put more in. Most people still don't give a fuck about this stuff until they are forced to.

Insulation is great, but if you don't keep the warm/cool air in it loses much of it's benefit. We're doing our house with these guys, this article gives some explanation of what is cost effective based on a program that was run in ACT. This article is from 2012. People talk about this stuff as if it is a new thing, because Australia hasn't been forced to give a fuck ever.

Yes, a properly designed for the location passive solar home is the way to go. Unfortunately it's cheaper and easier to buy a Hotondo home off the prints and bang in on the block facing the street with no thought of orientation, let alone an efficient design.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
Agreed. Should start another thread over this discussion, haha... but insulation is one thing but if you're just venting all your hot air out through leaky window frames or gaps in floorboards etc, it's not doing the job it could. Gap sealing and insulation gotta go hand in hand.
This is one thing that Light House bang on about so much.

Yes, a properly designed for the location passive solar home is the way to go. Unfortunately it's cheaper and easier to buy a Hotondo home off the prints and bang in on the block facing the street with no thought of orientation, let alone an efficient design.
Yeah it's sad. Over 10 years ago now a mate knocked his old place down and built a cookie cutter because for the same result the knock down was way cheaper. Gas was cheap ten years ago, so ducted gas heating/water/cooking, and solar was expensive so none of that. The only way that would have gone differently would have been legislation.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
Likely that the homes are built to a better standard in Canberra.
Lots of old and cold homes in Tassie.
Not sure about that, Canberra housing stock is pretty woeful. It is anywhere in Australia really, but Canberra as a town was built on the cheap.

But the house i was in there was a solid rendered besser block job from the 40s and it had gas central heating - $1100 gas bill last winter... This one is a brick veneer job and I am doubting there is insulation behind the plaster board either! Its "ok" build quality wise - solid from 1968 and hardwood framing, but plenty of evidence of a "she'll be right" approach to construction. fckn tradies ;)

It will scrub up well though, just needs some love and updating.
 
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Scotty T

Walks the walk
Not sure about that, Canberra housing stock is pretty woeful. It is anywhere in Australia really, but Canberra as a town was built on the cheap.
Yep anything old here is shit. There are some new estates that have been required to meet an energy star rating for the buildings but otherwise the houses are just like everywhere except in many cases they've had batts added but that's about it.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
Yep anything old here is shit. There are some new estates that have been required to meet an energy star rating for the buildings but otherwise the houses are just like everywhere except in many cases they've had batts added but that's about it.
Even those are still slapped together with glue and staples and some cash under the table to the inspector.. Id never buy a new house!
 

link1896

Mr Greenfield
The current star system is a crock. The amount of 7 star, esplanade homes here, with no eaves, a complete single glazed west wall, and an eleventy billion kw aircon is mindblowing.
7 stars does require r5 insulation in ceiling and r2.5 in walls, and double glazing, though double
Glazing requirements are calculated on whole house transmission calculations and not just a blanket rule.

But yes, current system isn’t perfect but it’s headed in the right direction. More effort needs to be placed on helping existing houses to improve thermal performance.


I dream of building a rammed earth house. 500mm thick exterior walls with insulation foam in the core, vacuum double or triple glazed windows, big ass eaves.
 

Cardy George

Piercing rural members since 1981
7 stars does require r5 insulation in ceiling and r2.5 in walls, and double glazing, though double
Glazing requirements are calculated on whole house transmission calculations and not just a blanket rule.

But yes, current system isn’t perfect but it’s headed in the right direction. More effort needs to be placed on helping existing houses to improve thermal performance.


I dream of building a rammed earth house. 500mm thick exterior walls with insulation foam in the core, vacuum double or triple glazed windows, big ass eaves.
How big are the wheels?
 

Squidfayce

Eats Squid
Dollar value return on investment thinking is the biggest part of the climate problem. We're fucked if that doesn't change. So I guess we are fucked.
Hold up. People aren't going to solve the climate crisis by going balls to the wall in building 10 star homes. So dollar return on investment when you're building your own home is absolutely irrelevant to the bigger climate change picture. Not everyone can fork out for a Passivhaus, so are they to blame for the ongoing crisis?

The focus should be where material gains can be made, not shaming people who cant afford to spend a huge premium on their living arrangements.
 

Squidfayce

Eats Squid
Yes, a properly designed for the location passive solar home is the way to go. Unfortunately it's cheaper and easier to buy a Hotondo home off the prints and bang in on the block facing the street with no thought of orientation, let alone an efficient design.
still has to has to meet the 6star minimum. So houses that are poorly orientated, need to put a clothesline in :D
 
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