Electric Vehicles etc

Haakon

Keeps on digging
Umm maybe you are forgetting the large manufacturer beginning with T? The Prius (and to some extent the Insight) were the first low emissions vehicles to crack the US market.

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And they squandered that lead and are buying in EV tech from BYD. Same as Renault, they had a big first mover advantage in EVs in the early 2010s and didn’t use it…
 

Asininedrivel

caviar connoisseur
And they squandered that lead and are buying in EV tech from BYD. Same as Renault, they had a big first mover advantage in EVs in the early 2010s and didn’t use it…
Yes and no. Some would argue they're focused more on hydrogen rather than EVs.
 

Asininedrivel

caviar connoisseur
Fuck BMW too for building an electric toy and supercar they knew nobody would buy.
Eh? You think car manufacturers legitimately burn away huge R&D costs for no good reason?

The i8 was a good idea ahead of its time for the market from a company that was trying to innovate.
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
And they squandered that lead and are buying in EV tech from BYD. Same as Renault, they had a big first mover advantage in EVs in the early 2010s and didn’t use it…
Maybe. I'd hardly call the hybrid Corolla/Camry/Hilux a squandered opportunity. They will sell a bazillion more of those than Tesla and save untold billions of barrels of oil.

If they eventually make the whole hydrogen fuel cell/hybrid power pack work they would solve the charging infrastructure and range problems and pretty much dominate even more than they currently do.

The real squandered opportunity was the GM EV1. They could have drawn on their dominant position in the US and the expertise of GE, and the defense industry who were busy electrifying fighter jets and aircraft carriers.

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Haakon

Keeps on digging
Yes and no. Some would argue they're focused more on hydrogen rather than EVs.
Also a dumb move, but driven by Japanese domestic politics.
Hybrids are good and have been a huge success for them, but they’re still low tar cigarettes and their time has passed.
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
I'll take Sandy Munro's word on the quality control.
To give a measured response to this. I am probably going to buy an electric car in the next 3-4 years. I know that Tesla has the best technology, and this appeals to me a lot. But, until I'm pretty certain that they've ironed out all the logistical bugs so I know my car won't be parked up for 6 weeks with a fault, I just cannot buy one.

So currently the Porsche Taycan Cross Turismo is the car I want to get. The technology is derived from the 918 and 919 so it's a lot better than what the rest of the VW group is using. I can fit the kids and all their crap. It looks fucking hot and goes like it too. The range is adequate and I'm confident I won't get stranded for weeks at a time if something goes wrong.

I'm also interested in the next generation JLR electric platforms going in the Land Rover Defender and Range Rover Sport. The current Jaguar I-pace won world car and by all reports is an excellent car, but there is a new modular platform coming. My local independent Land Rover mechanic already has a HV electrician/mechanic on staff, so again I'm confident I won't be parked up for weeks.

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Scotty T

Walks the walk
Porsche is well out of my league, Model 3 SR is plenty of car for our needs, around two years from now. Should get a nice used one under 50k.
 

Scotty T

Walks the walk
Too many marble bench tops. Tsk tsk... :p
We're actually looking at recycled timber, which probs costs more!

But, until I'm pretty certain that they've ironed out all the logistical bugs so I know my car won't be parked up for 6 weeks with a fault, I just cannot buy one.
Obviously there's people talking on the internet about this, but I wonder exactly how many people have had to park their Tesla for 6 weeks for a fault compared to other manufacturers?

My car servicing place has a 6 week wait right now, for my ~$8k value 7 year old car. Luckly the thing I need done (rear shocks) has not rendered it undriveable. The last scheduled service service where they told me about the rear shock leak was a 9 week wait.

This is about the best info I can find rating auto makers for reliability including Tesla:


I wonder if there's any skewing here with a number of faults being fixed by over the air updates instead of going to a service centre? Anyway it's a company that has been running for 15 years as opposed to 85 years in the case of VW, the quite "reliable" car I have now, and VW aren't doing much better on those numbers, so I feel like the sentiment among non Tesla owners that they are so much worse than anything we've ever seen is a bit unwarranted. Of course Tesla owner satisfaction ratings are massively high, some fanboy factor but maybe also a bit of "who cares if my Tesla is having a bug recognisng speed limit signs that will be fixed in a few days with an over the air update"

My car actually has some intermittent faults they can't seem to diagnose or fix so we just work around the key sometimes not working to wind all the windows down or up (one of the best features VW has) or the volume control knob going whacky (the one on the steering wheel still works) so they are unreported unfixed faults, that don't count against the reliability of the car, but could be counted in that survey if they were reported. They would also be fixed by software updates in the case of Tesla, AFAIK most cars except the top models still don't have these features?

I think it is really hard to quantify poor dependability these days when overall dependabilty is at an all time high. The numbers on Tesla don't necessarily say you are more likely to have a debilitating problem than anyone else so I can't make a solid call on whether the reputation on paper would result in more time off the road in real life.
 

k3n!f

leaking out the other end
Well, I've bought my last ICE car. I'll drive this for a year or two until they release the Model Y Long Range in Australia and I wait the obligatory 12 months for delivery. Disappointing that a car that has been available overseas for years and would be perfect for my family isn't available here yet.
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
We're actually looking at recycled timber, which probs costs more!



Obviously there's people talking on the internet about this, but I wonder exactly how many people have had to park their Tesla for 6 weeks for a fault compared to other manufacturers?

My car servicing place has a 6 week wait right now, for my ~$8k value 7 year old car. Luckly the thing I need done (rear shocks) has not rendered it undriveable. The last scheduled service service where they told me about the rear shock leak was a 9 week wait.

This is about the best info I can find rating auto makers for reliability including Tesla:


I wonder if there's any skewing here with a number of faults being fixed by over the air updates instead of going to a service centre? Anyway it's a company that has been running for 15 years as opposed to 85 years in the case of VW, the quite "reliable" car I have now, and VW aren't doing much better on those numbers, so I feel like the sentiment among non Tesla owners that they are so much worse than anything we've ever seen is a bit unwarranted. Of course Tesla owner satisfaction ratings are massively high, some fanboy factor but maybe also a bit of "who cares if my Tesla is having a bug recognisng speed limit signs that will be fixed in a few days with an over the air update"

My car actually has some intermittent faults they can't seem to diagnose or fix so we just work around the key sometimes not working to wind all the windows down or up (one of the best features VW has) or the volume control knob going whacky (the one on the steering wheel still works) so they are unreported unfixed faults, that don't count against the reliability of the car, but could be counted in that survey if they were reported. They would also be fixed by software updates in the case of Tesla, AFAIK most cars except the top models still don't have these features?

I think it is really hard to quantify poor dependability these days when overall dependabilty is at an all time high. The numbers on Tesla don't necessarily say you are more likely to have a debilitating problem than anyone else so I can't make a solid call on whether the reputation on paper would result in more time off the road in real life.
If you can build a bike, you can do rear shocks on a veedub ;)

https://spareto.com/products/bilstein-shock-absorber/19-230542
 
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Haakon

Keeps on digging
Well, I've bought my last ICE car. I'll drive this for a year or two until they release the Model Y Long Range in Australia and I wait the obligatory 12 months for delivery. Disappointing that a car that has been available overseas for years and would be perfect for my family isn't available here yet.
Manufacturers have had no incentive to prioritise supplying thr Australian market, for obvious reasons.

This lack of supply is why the FCAI is wanting to self impose a CO2 standard on Australian vehicles to send the market signal to manufacturers and improve the choice and costs of EVs here.
 

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
We're actually looking at recycled timber, which probs costs more!



Obviously there's people talking on the internet about this, but I wonder exactly how many people have had to park their Tesla for 6 weeks for a fault compared to other manufacturers?

My car servicing place has a 6 week wait right now, for my ~$8k value 7 year old car. Luckly the thing I need done (rear shocks) has not rendered it undriveable. The last scheduled service service where they told me about the rear shock leak was a 9 week wait.

This is about the best info I can find rating auto makers for reliability including Tesla:


I wonder if there's any skewing here with a number of faults being fixed by over the air updates instead of going to a service centre? Anyway it's a company that has been running for 15 years as opposed to 85 years in the case of VW, the quite "reliable" car I have now, and VW aren't doing much better on those numbers, so I feel like the sentiment among non Tesla owners that they are so much worse than anything we've ever seen is a bit unwarranted. Of course Tesla owner satisfaction ratings are massively high, some fanboy factor but maybe also a bit of "who cares if my Tesla is having a bug recognisng speed limit signs that will be fixed in a few days with an over the air update"

My car actually has some intermittent faults they can't seem to diagnose or fix so we just work around the key sometimes not working to wind all the windows down or up (one of the best features VW has) or the volume control knob going whacky (the one on the steering wheel still works) so they are unreported unfixed faults, that don't count against the reliability of the car, but could be counted in that survey if they were reported. They would also be fixed by software updates in the case of Tesla, AFAIK most cars except the top models still don't have these features?

I think it is really hard to quantify poor dependability these days when overall dependabilty is at an all time high. The numbers on Tesla don't necessarily say you are more likely to have a debilitating problem than anyone else so I can't make a solid call on whether the reputation on paper would result in more time off the road in real life.
Hahahaha! I love that Land Rover and Jaguar are near the bottom, and here I am complaining about dependability.

But to illustrate my point: My 8 year old Disco 4 has had 2 pretty big issues this year, a coolant distributor and a steering rack, and 1 small issue, a coolant hose. They were all looked at by my independent mechanic immediately, and fixed within 5 days for the major issues.

I've got an independent Porsche mechanic locally who I would expect to provide the same level of service. I note that Porsche were close to the top of the JD Power ratings.

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Haakon

Keeps on digging
Tesla issues are mostly from I can gather minor things. The stuff that matters, stuff that makes it a going and useful machine they’re good. Motors, battery, software they’re kicking arse. Panel fit is irrelevant in my view…
 

Haakon

Keeps on digging
External panel fit?

I'd have thought for efficiency, panel fit would be reasonably important.
Its perfectly fine for that function and always has been in tesla products. People do love to get excited about a mm or two variation and that qualifies as a fault for the purpose of reliability.

So when a squeaking trim part or a wonky shut line holds the same weight as an exploded transmission or a massive failure of emissions systems I tend to not take much stock in these reliability surveys…
 
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