Fire Warnings

pink poodle

気が狂っている男
the red stuff that plane drop is actually a phosphate based fertilizer mixed into water that helps to slow the spread of fire and cool it down, where as AFFF (aqueous film forming foam) reacts with water to form a barrier over the fire and stop its supply of oxygenated air from feeding the fire.
I would love to have a discussion on that topic too, but too many experts on here with NFI to make it a worthwhile venture.
Are you saying it has t caused problems for the neighbours?
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
Are you saying it has t caused problems for the neighbours?
what I am saying is that it is very hard to prove that the issues that are floating around about Williamtown and Pfas are solely attributed to the use of legacy AFFF at the RAAF base....
have you ever used or been in close contact with anything on the following list?
359066
 

Miguel75

Likes Dirt
the red stuff that plane drop is actually a phosphate based fertilizer mixed into water that helps to slow the spread of fire and cool it down, where as AFFF (aqueous film forming foam) reacts with water to form a barrier over the fire and stop its supply of oxygenated air from feeding the fire.
I would love to have a discussion on that topic too, but too many experts on here with NFI to make it a worthwhile venture.
Solberg make an AFFF foam that’s PFOS free and can be used on both class A & B fires...
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
I'll just leave this here.

I'm not saying that it isn't in the soil or water table, because it certainly is
what I was trying to get across is that its hard for people to claim that if an elevated reading was picked up by a blood screen that that reading can be solely caused by the ground water contact and not a life long history of many different products causing a cumulative effect!.
and Mig, yes there are many companies manufacturing AFFF that are now PFOA/PFAS free!...
anyway, like I said before.....#toomanyexperts
https://pfas.australianmap.net/?doing_wp_cron=1579297296.6308929920196533203125
here's a fun map to have a play with
there are also sites on here that have been identified as contaminated caused by the various state run Fire and Rescue Dept's
 
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FigBo0T

Puts verniers on his headtube
I'm not saying that it isn't in the soil or water table, because it certainly is
what I was trying to get across is that its hard for people to claim that if an elevated reading was picked up by a blood screen that that reading can be solely caused by the ground water contact and not a life long history of many different products causing a cumulative effect!.
and Mig, yes there are many companies manufacturing AFFF that are now PFOA/PFAS free!...
anyway, like I said before.....#toomanyexperts
https://pfas.australianmap.net/?doing_wp_cron=1579297296.6308929920196533203125
here's a fun map to have a play with
there are also sites on here that have been identified as contaminated caused by the RFS!
I got that, mate. I even agree with the principle, but ..... The effected bases are not in heavily populated or industrialised areas, by design, and DoD has taken responsibility, and been found liable.
I don't think you can dismiss it at this point. The rabbits have given the game away.
 
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fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
I got that, mate. I even agree with the principle, but ..... The effected bases are not in heavily populated or industrialised areas, by design, and DoD has taken responsibility, and been found liable.
I don't think you can dismiss it at this point. The rabbits have given the game away.
did you even look at the map?
oh, and also...#expert!
 
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FigBo0T

Puts verniers on his headtube
did you even look at the map?
Yes. Did you read the article about the compensation ruling? Obviously industry has done a better job than Defence at using our land as their sewer, but DoD are responsible for their own nests.

EDIT; this is an excerpt from one of the effected areas in my local region. This area is outside the RAAF base by a few hundred metres. The language is unambiguous.

The reports, by consultancy AECOM, examined the risks to humans and wildlife from the base's use of firefighting foams containing PFAS over several decades.

The report found residents who eat large amounts of locally-grown food should strive to reduce their intake of meat, fish and eggs, where animals have had contact with contaminated water.

Separately, an ecological risk assessment found the pollutants posed a "potentially unacceptable" risk to plants and animals in the area.
 
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fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
there is a hell of a lot more sites on that map that have been contaminated by AFFF by the various state run Fire and Rescue departments than military bases!
back in the day this product was the industry standard, and as such everybody used it..its just now that they are finding it in more and more sites, but I think its a classic case of "lets see how much I can get out of the Govt"..DoD has heaps more cash then the local fire brigade!
From what I am seeing, the health effects from this stuff are pale in comparison to the mental health and anxiety issues that are being driven by the mainstream media, people are contemplating suicide and causing serious harm by excess (alcohol, smoking, drugs) as a coping measure!
the ruling as you stated is probably more related to loss of income from a primary producer than actual health symptoms, as a producer he can no longer sell his produce from this property!
 

FigBo0T

Puts verniers on his headtube
there is a hell of a lot more sites on that map that have been contaminated by AFFF by the various state run Fire and Rescue departments than military bases!
Your original claim was that we can't blame the pollution on RAAF firefighting training practices. My claim is that we most certainly can. That doesn't speak at all to what others have done. This discussion is about RAAF bases.

Key Findings of the ERA
The ERA indicates that there is potential for elevated risks to plants and animals within the Study Area.
This is because of: Discharge of PFAS impacted surface water from the Base’s airfield foam cannon testing area and Sewage Treatment Plant (STP)
;Discharge of PFAS impacted surface water from the Baseand Rickabys Drop Zone to Rickabys Creek
; Discharge of PFAS impacted surface water from the STP on the Baseand Rickabys Drop Zone,through an underground pipe to Bakers Lagoon; and
;The bioaccumulation of PFAS in water and land-based animals.
 

FigBo0T

Puts verniers on his headtube
the ruling as you stated is probably more related to loss of income from a primary producer than actual health symptoms, as a producer he can no longer sell his produce from this property!
I don't see why that should detract from the issue. Those military bases have been there a long time.
 

fatboyonabike

Captain oblivious
Your original claim was that we can't blame the pollution on RAAF firefighting training practices. My claim is that we most certainly can. That doesn't speak at all to what others have done. This discussion is about RAAF bases.



Im not saying that the RAAF are squeaky clean, the point I was trying to get across was that what the Military used to do was seen as Best Industry Practice!..
going by your factsheet,if you are concerned, IT IS ADVISED that you limit your consumption of rabbits and frogs in the wider Richmond basin
and stop listening to Tracy Grimshaw and Lawsie!
 

FigBo0T

Puts verniers on his headtube

FigBo0T

Puts verniers on his headtube
Im not saying that the RAAF are squeaky clean, the point I was trying to get across was that what the Military used to do was seen as Best Industry Practice!..
going by your factsheet,if you are concerned, IT IS ADVISED that you limit your consumption of rabbits and frogs in the wider Richmond basin
and stop listening to Tracy Grimshaw and Lawsie!
And grass fed meat, and home grown eggs. :rolleyes:
I'm quoting EPA, ERA, and DoD, mate. It's you who needs to get past the names on the news articles. DoD knew about this for a very long time, and did nothing but 'monitor'. There are at least 20 years of records that they won't release.
 
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