Formula One world championship

The press is suggesting that Webber should have won the race because he got pole position then said it was Red Bull who decided the strategy and cost him the win. Surprisingly, I haven't read a report saying anything along the lines of "Dominant Vettel drives consistently fast laps to win Japanese Grand Prix". I don't think Webber should be pissed off or even playing the strategy card, he got done good by Vettel.

One good thing about Webber's retirement is that I'll no longer have to hear the constant wailing of fuckwits who cry conspiracy whenever things don't go Mark's way.

Red Bull are not and never have been anti-Webber. Nor have they treated him like shit as is often the complaint from the one-eyed mob. Actually when you look at it, Red Bull have been nothing but good for Mark. They've kept him gainfully employed for 7 years which is pretty remarkable in the sport these days. Just ask Nico Hulkenberg...
 
No way. Thats just asking for the teams with to much money to spend to have a seperate car that they can drive during quali/practice and throw into the walls trying to get the best time. The idea should be that you have to at least try keep the car in one piece until the race.

I'm so anti punishing the teams that ave cash simply to keep them in line with the teams that don't have a lot of cash. It's strange to punish something that is in a good port. I think it's good to have parity on the track and we all want to see good racing but forcing some teams to play at the level of the poorest team is fucking shit and does nothing for anyone but the teams who are apparently struggling. Struggling? Struggling to put a car on track, develop it and take the necessary staff all over the world to race it? C'mon, that ain't struggling, that's just a sign you should go and race yachts.
I think it should be mandatory for each team to have a chassis ready to run, albeit with some various parts to be fitted for all teams in top level racing. If the need arises that they have to use the spare car then whack them with a grid penalty.
 
I'm so anti punishing the teams that ave cash simply to keep them in line with the teams that don't have a lot of cash. It's strange to punish something that is in a good port. I think it's good to have parity on the track and we all want to see good racing but forcing some teams to play at the level of the poorest team is fucking shit and does nothing for anyone but the teams who are apparently struggling. Struggling? Struggling to put a car on track, develop it and take the necessary staff all over the world to race it? C'mon, that ain't struggling, that's just a sign you should go and race yachts.
I think it should be mandatory for each team to have a chassis ready to run, albeit with some various parts to be fitted for all teams in top level racing. If the need arises that they have to use the spare car then whack them with a grid penalty.
I have no problem with spending caps, to a point. F1 saw what happened with Ferrari and schuey and don't want that sort of inequality putting them in the same situation that the wrc is fighting its way out of. Seems like the right approach to me, and a fair whack more successful than dorna and motogp.

I do think they need more in season testing though, especially for the sake of the rookies. Not total open slather but some more allowance.
 
I have no problem with spending caps, to a point. F1 saw what happened with Ferrari and schuey and don't want that sort of inequality putting them in the same situation that the wrc is fighting its way out of. Seems like the right approach to me, and a fair whack more successful than dorna and motogp.

I do think they need more in season testing though, especially for the sake of the rookies. Not total open slather but some more allowance.


I totally agree on in season testing, it should be minimum four tests a year.
For what it's worth, I reckon WRC sucks nuts and is no more entertaining than watching the local club guys do a gymkhana around a grass paddock. The days of the big bangers are long gone and now we are stuck with these fucking stupid looking hatchbacks with teenager exhaust systems. Full credit to the pinners that drive them but seriously, if it wasn't running on my door step (literally......) I wouldn't give two shits about it until they make it interesting again.
 
I totally agree on in season testing, it should be minimum four tests a year.
For what it's worth, I reckon WRC sucks nuts and is no more entertaining than watching the local club guys do a gymkhana around a grass paddock. The days of the big bangers are long gone and now we are stuck with these fucking stupid looking hatchbacks with teenager exhaust systems. Full credit to the pinners that drive them but seriously, if it wasn't running on my door step (literally......) I wouldn't give two shits about it until they make it interesting again.
I dunno, it's absolute shite for TV, just the wrong format, but I reckon I'd rather watch a good WRC round live than an F1 meet. Thing is it has to be a 'good' round, and I'm not sure how hot the current Australian round is. Germany however was pretty fucking awesome.
 
The press is suggesting that Webber should have won the race because he got pole position then said it was Red Bull who decided the strategy and cost him the win. Surprisingly, I haven't read a report saying anything along the lines of "Dominant Vettel drives consistently fast laps to win Japanese Grand Prix". I don't think Webber should be pissed off or even playing the strategy card, he got done good by Vettel.

Interesting, I'd like to hear from webber or see his times actually to see if the tire were indeed going off.
I was complet under the impression his tires just went off so he had to switch to a 3stop.

What boggles my mind is vettel manages to put in fastest laps and somehow make the tires last longer as well (not just agains webber and I understand this race was wing differences) but all season his just had amazing pace and kept life in the tires. The redbull really must be worlds ahead of the other cars.

If it was redbull decision to do that, what a load of balls. In which case that's clearly sacrificing webber which is so tight. As much as it may appear redbull is not vettel bias they clearly are. They obviously are not sabotaging webber those claims are just stupid, but you can see the bias in team orders, and more so reactions, when ever webber goes out of a race its pretty emotionless whenever web goes out you see heaps of emotional reaction and disappointment.

Yes seb is the no1 driver so he obviously gets first shot at parts so that's not a issue.

Very keen to see how ricciardo goes in the redbull his young drive and desire to win should be Interesting to watch.
 
I dunno, it's absolute shite for TV, just the wrong format, but I reckon I'd rather watch a good WRC round live than an F1 meet. Thing is it has to be a 'good' round, and I'm not sure how hot the current Australian round is. Germany however was pretty fucking awesome.

The Aussie round is pretty good on some pretty awesome roads but to me it hasn't got anything close to Formula One. F1 to me is the best entertainment on the planet and nothing twangs your senses like it does. I did enjoy Champcar immensely but that went to shit when the money dried up. I never got into IRL and still won't, I can't bring myself to watch those cars in their current design, the bodywork looks so bad and it seems to me they made it that way just to be different.
Eddie Jordan is claiming Hulkenberg is going back to Force India yet Lotus are making it clear they want him. Where does this leave Massa? What will McLaren do? Me thinks Massa may end up without a drive...............
 
The Aussie round is pretty good on some pretty awesome roads but to me it hasn't got anything close to Formula One. F1 to me is the best entertainment on the planet and nothing twangs your senses like it does. I did enjoy Champcar immensely but that went to shit when the money dried up. I never got into IRL and still won't, I can't bring myself to watch those cars in their current design, the bodywork looks so bad and it seems to me they made it that way just to be different.
Eddie Jordan is claiming Hulkenberg is going back to Force India yet Lotus are making it clear they want him. Where does this leave Massa? What will McLaren do? Me thinks Massa may end up without a drive...............
No argument that f1 is the most brutal assault on your head, but I guess I just found it a little sanitised.
All the fences and barriers and safe spectating distances just made things feel a little removed. The wrc the week before had us watching from a spot where I could literally take a small step onto the roof of the cars as they flew past in front if my toes. They don't punish your ears like an f1 car, but the sound is fantastic and primal with all the pops and cracks, and you're close enough to get a face full of dust or mud direct from the tyres.

The big weakness is that the action is relatively brief but I really enjoy the road trip through the country, and the hiking and dodgy shit involved in finding the best spots; the reward is well worth the effort

As for massa, I'm with you. He'll go the same way as the last Brazilian, Ferrari no. 2.
 
Toro Rosso announced their new driver a few days back; 19 year old Russian Daniil Kvyat. He's sitting third in the GP3 series and is a product of the Red Bull junior programme. He did take part in the young driver test this year and did okay, albeit beaching it in the sand at one point. He's got more credit than the other new Rissian Sirotkin. He can apparently operate a car and not just use his Dad's credit card.
Many are claiming now that the heavier drivers are just not worth it and are being pushed down the desired driver list. That's a shit scenario but I'd imagine it's just another challenge for a clued up engineer to overcome. If the guy is quick, you'll build a car to match it.
 
Toro Rosso announced their new driver a few days back; 19 year old Russian Daniil Kvyat. He's sitting third in the GP3 series and is a product of the Red Bull junior programme. He did take part in the young driver test this year and did okay, albeit beaching it in the sand at one point. He's got more credit than the other new Rissian Sirotkin. He can apparently operate a car and not just use his Dad's credit card.
Many are claiming now that the heavier drivers are just not worth it and are being pushed down the desired driver list. That's a shit scenario but I'd imagine it's just another challenge for a clued up engineer to overcome. If the guy is quick, you'll build a car to match it.

webber is 6'2" and 75kg (and refuses to go lower, understandably... that jaw line of his must be a giant air brake as it is) and manages to punt his car around well enough...
 
I'm shorter than webber a only knock up 60kg. Redbull sign me up.

I wouldn't think weight would be the issue, isn't the weight controlled and adjusted anyway. I'd thing its more a size issue than weight. (Ok yes the correlation of weight and size) but just been specific.
 
webber is 6'2" and 75kg (and refuses to go lower, understandably... that jaw line of his must be a giant air brake as it is) and manages to punt his car around well enough...

There was a bit of discussion about this a few weeks back in the papers. It's an issue...

courtesy of The Age
MOKPO: Jenson Button has called on the FIA to increase the minimum weight limit for next year's cars after claiming that taller, heavier drivers are being unfairly discriminated against.
With heavy showers expected on Sunday - the latest forecasts still have Typhoon Fitow just missing the Korean Peninsula and heading west towards China instead - a storm of a different kind was brewing in Korea on Thursday as the notoriously thorny issue of driver weight reared its head.
The Grand Prix Drivers Association is expected to discuss the issue on Friday night.


The issue has been put firmly back on the agenda in recent weeks with speculation that Sauber's Nico Hulkenberg, widely regarded as one of the sport's most promising talents, may miss out on a drive next year because he weighs 74 kilograms.
It was rumoured in Germany this week that Hulkenberg may have missed out on a race seat at McLaren due to his weight. He has also been overlooked by Ferrari and is vying with the much lighter Felipe Massa for a race seat at Lotus.
Force India's Paul di Resta, who weighs in at 74kg, is another driver sweating on his future.

Former formula one driver David Coulthard has admitted to suffering from bulimia. Photo: Shaney Balcombe
Red Bull's Mark Webber responded to the speculation by tweeting his sympathy for heavier drivers, claiming that he has been starving himself for years and adding that the perfect driver weight was now between 60 to 65kg.
The Australian, 182cm tall, weighs around 75kg compared with his teammate Sebastian Vettel who is 175cm and weighs 64kg. "Haven't eaten for last 5 years!" Webber wrote. "Min weight been to [sic] low since for ages. Perfect driver now weight 60/65kg."
The issue of driver weight is a long-standing one in formula one. David Coulthard admitted to suffering from bulimia as a teenager as he struggled to make his way in the sport. While Button said he was in no danger of developing an eating disorder, he admitted that he fasts before each race and "never" eats carbohydrates.
The 2009 world champion said that it was high time drivers put self-interest aside to create "a level playing field" ahead of next year's step-change in the regulations.
The introduction in 2014 of new turbocharged engines allied to heavier, more powerful energy recovery systems has already seen the governing body increase the minimum weight limit of the cars plus drivers to 690kg from 642kg.
However, the extra 48kg will almost certainly be taken up by the new power units, meaning even less leeway for drivers than there is at present. Lighter drivers currently have the luxury of being able to move ballast around the car in order to bring it up to the minimum weight.
Button claimed that he was already "on the limit" in his McLaren at just 70kg and had sometimes stepped over it. "I have about six per cent body fat and I am on the limit in our car," he said. "I couldn't be heavier than I am so I fast before the race.
"The problem is that it will stop people looking at taller drivers in the future. You could have a very talented driver who could be missed for his height and weight even if he is the fittest and skinniest driver ever to be in a racing car. If he is over the weight by five kilos that is 0.2 secs-a-lap and it is the end of your career basically.
"It needs to change now. To be fair, we [the drivers] should have pushed harder on that. I think the drivers would rather have a level playing field. It is not a safety issue and it should be an easy thing to change: just put [the minimum weight] up five or 10kg."
Button conceded that some drivers and teams would not be as keen as others. "Some teams might not want to change the weight because they have light drivers and know they can make a light car and engine package," he said. "That might be us [McLaren] but we should all agree to be fair and raise the weights. I would love to be able to eat again.
"In the past three years, I have probably had four races where I have lost half-a-tenth or a tenth of a second because I have been overweight. It sounds small but in qualifying that could be a position or two and in the race it could be five or six seconds.
"It is a big deal and something that goes unnoticed."
Lewis Hamilton produced an amusing aside to the issue by suggesting only drastic action could enable him to reach Webber's ideal driver weight.
He said: "I weigh about 71kg. I was never 65kg. I was 68kg last year but I have put on three kilos since then. The guys have not told me to do that [lose weight]. I actually want to put on another kilo of muscle! I think Michael [Schumacher] was 78kg with all his kit and Adrian Sutil was 82kg. I am not going to be 65kg unless I cut my nuts off."
 
I'm shorter than webber a only knock up 60kg. Redbull sign me up.

I wouldn't think weight would be the issue, isn't the weight controlled and adjusted anyway. I'd thing its more a size issue than weight.
There's a minimum weight, but perfectly allowable to be heavier. The engineers want all the weight they can have, so if they design around the driver's fighting weight and they put on a little, they're at a disadvantage.

Upping the minimum weight means that the teams with lighter drivers add ballast, but the big guys don't lose out. Well they still lose out because ballast can move, a driver is pretty much stuck, but it's better at least.

Personally I think the best solution would be to have seperate minimum weights for car and driver. Not only should it let Jensen have a burger or two, but it would make it much easier for drivers to move around 'cause teams won't have a car designed around someone 20kg lighter. Prevents us from just getting a field full of jockeys too.
 
There's a minimum weight, but perfectly allowable to be heavier. The engineers want all the weight they can have, so if they design around the driver's fighting weight and they put on a little, they're at a disadvantage.

Upping the minimum weight means that the teams with lighter drivers add ballast, but the big guys don't lose out. Well they still lose out because ballast can move, a driver is pretty much stuck, but it's better at least.

Personally I think the best solution would be to have seperate minimum weights for car and driver. Not only should it let Jensen have a burger or two, but it would make it much easier for drivers to move around 'cause teams won't have a car designed around someone 20kg lighter. Prevents us from just getting a field full of jockeys too.

Can those with heavier drives trim the car down, if the cars are already so trimmed they cant do this than they should increase the weight and add ballast. It wouldn't be that bad of a disadvantage to drivers they are centered and low down in the car so the weight is pretty perfectly situated, the FIA could also implement a set area where the ballast needs to be placed in order to reduce the use of ballast for weight displacement.

The idea of having min weights for car and drive will still result in a drive war. they will have a light car but they will aim to find the drivers who are at that minimum weight to minimize their overall package weight. The lighter weight drivers then would be at a disadvantage you cant exactly tell a driver to put on fat to drive a car, if we put say 75kg as the limit (which plenty of drivers knock up over 70. We would than be expecting massa and his 59kg frame to pack on 14kg of fat or muscle, muscle would be insane not to mention bring up issue with him actually fitting in the car and that much fat is well just ridiculously unhealthy and will effect his performance in the car.

The best method imo would be a designated ballast position and a set weight limit that encompasses all drivers and cars. It would sure make the racing more interesting with all cars weighing the same.

The set weight is working well in moto
 
The idea of having min weights for car and drive will still result in a drive war. they will have a light car but they will aim to find the drivers who are at that minimum weight to minimize their overall package weight. The lighter weight drivers then would be at a disadvantage you cant exactly tell a driver to put on fat to drive a car, if we put say 75kg as the limit (which plenty of drivers knock up over 70. We would than be expecting massa and his 59kg frame to pack on 14kg of fat or muscle, muscle would be insane not to mention bring up issue with him actually fitting in the car and that much fat is well just ridiculously unhealthy and will effect his performance in the car.
It wouldn't do that at all; if your driver is too light, just add ballast to hit the minimum driver weight. A bit if an advantage will always sit with the smaller guy unless you fix the ballast position near the driver's CoM.

If you just up the weight for the total package you'll still get teams with small drivers spending the extra weight on components, who then won't hire s bigger driver because it'd mean them changing the car to get back to the minimum weight.

Separate limits equalize the cars.
 
It wouldn't do that at all; if your driver is too light, just add ballast to hit the minimum driver weight. A bit if an advantage will always sit with the smaller guy unless you fix the ballast position near the driver's CoM.

If you just up the weight for the total package you'll still get teams with small drivers spending the extra weight on components, who then won't hire s bigger driver because it'd mean them changing the car to get back to the minimum weight.

Separate limits equalize the cars.

Sorry
You didn't mention ballast previously or or missed it reading.I though you were just saying have the two separate weights without any adjustment. That's why I assumed they will hit the cars weight but still look for light drivers.

So what you are proposing just to be clear is the same concept for the cars now, meaning they can be lighter or heavier than other teams as long as they hit the min weight. But placing a limit on driver weight.

Essentially eliminating the drive weight from the equation given its the same across the board. (As long as the min weight covers all drivers)

I'd definately agree they would need to place the ballast in a ocation under the driver as close to thier CoM as possible.
 
How about the heaviest driver's weight is recorded at the start of each session. Each driver then wears a colostomy bag that they fill with fluid to match the weight of the heaviest dude, such an obvious solution!
 
But they will still choose the SHORTEST driver. Weight is not the only issue - fitting the package around driver height is also a consideration.
 
Sorry
You didn't mention ballast previously or or missed it reading.I though you were just saying have the two separate weights without any adjustment. That's why I assumed they will hit the cars weight but still look for light drivers.

So what you are proposing just to be clear is the same concept for the cars now, meaning they can be lighter or heavier than other teams as long as they hit the min weight. But placing a limit on driver weight.

Essentially eliminating the drive weight from the equation given its the same across the board. (As long as the min weight covers all drivers)

I'd definately agree they would need to place the ballast in a ocation under the driver as close to thier CoM as possible.
I thought ballast would be implied by minimum weight, but yeah I'm basically saying that maybe 80kg or so of the current limit should be allocated do driver weight only, and ballast be added to hit that weight, rather than extra weight built into components.

Lyle, height is always going to be an issue, but you can't easily legislate for that, nor can teams ask drivers to starve themselves to get shorter. Weight is a problem too though, and one that can be easily fixed. The fact that you can't solve everything is no reason not to address the problems you can.
 
Word on the street is Massa may do a five year deal with Williams, Maldonado will take his Government's money to Lotus and he and Grosjean will destroy every car on the grid.
I can't see what Williams would get from Massa other than limited intel on what Ferrari did over the years. He's got some cash behind him and lots of experience, maybe they liked the Barrichello era and can see the same unfolding with Massa?
 
Back
Top