Fox Suspension rebound settings

[EsPeGe]

Hi all hope you are all getting some saddle time and not either drowning or frying depending on which part of the country you are in. Anyway I've recently installed 2019 Fox 40s and X2 on my Pivot Phoenix and I have a question regarding rebound setting. I've set the sag etc using a combination of the Pivot set up guide, the fox set up guides and the Force. Both forks and shock have High and Low speed rebound. I've got things pretty close to how I like them now but I'm finding I'm not getting the kick off jumps that I want. I have dialled both rebounds back (slower/clock-wise) so that I wasn't getting booted over the front on take off but I've gone too far the other way and now when I launch I am distinctly front wheel high rather than nicely balanced. I want to bring in some rebound to correct this but I am not sure which setting I need to change. I've mucked around but can't seem to get it sorted.

Now fox doesn't say much about HSR/LSR in their set up guide for the 40's but the X2 tuning guide says this....

So I'll assume (usually a very bad idea I know) that the same applies to the 40's. I believe this is counter intuitive in that a heavy landing using full stroke would be a LOW speed compression/rebound where as something like braking bumps would be HIGH speed compression/rebound. I know that's also high frequency but I don't think I'm getting frequency and speed mixed up here. Braking bumps would be short but fast strokes where as a full stroke landing would be a slower event is how I think of it, probably incorrectly. I'm also coming from PUSH coil suspension which is the opposite of Fox and the way I understand compression and rebound.

So after war and peace here is my question..... Which rebound should I be changing to get the bike back into balance on a jump? Would you consider the launch of a jump (I know it depends on the jump but generalizing here) to be a High or Low speed event???

Any help or suggestions are much appreciated and I'll put em into practice this Thursday and Friday at Thredbo.

Cheers Scott.

 

[SummitFever]

Front wheel high suggests you're getting too much "pop" from the front or too little from the rear.

Too much pop on the front can be caused by too little LSC and/or too little LSR.

Dialling in a bit more LSC on the fork can stop the fork going deeper into its travel and storing more energy, which when returned is causing the front to get too high. More LSR may be necessary as well.

Too little pop from the rear can be caused by too much LSC, LSR or even HSR.

Outside of the Ohlins TTX / Cane Creek DB shocks, the LSC/HSC/LSR/HSR adjusters all interact with each other and there is also a big fuzzy grey line between what is a high speed or low speed event.

This means you really need to get a feel for how the adjusters work. Try back to back riding with full HSR / no LSR and full LSR / no HSR and you should get an idea for how your fork/shock behaves according to the adjusters.

 

[Chriso_29er]

I'm certainly no expert, however I would have thought that compression would affect the bike more on take off than rebound.
You'd want to firm up compression so that the front end doesn't absorb the jump leading to nose down. I imagine low speed circuit would have a lot to do with this on a flowy jump, high speed if it has a shorter hard kicker.

But would depend a lot on the type of jumps and also how the rear end of the bike also reacts with your front settings.

 

[Oddjob]

Hi all hope you are all getting some saddle time and not either drowning or frying depending on which part of the country you are in. Anyway I've recently installed 2019 Fox 40s and X2 on my Pivot Phoenix and I have a question regarding rebound setting. I've set the sag etc using a combination of the Pivot set up guide, the fox set up guides and the Force. Both forks and shock have High and Low speed rebound. I've got things pretty close to how I like them now but I'm finding I'm not getting the kick off jumps that I want. I have dialled both rebounds back (slower/clock-wise) so that I wasn't getting booted over the front on take off but I've gone too far the other way and now when I launch I am distinctly front wheel high rather than nicely balanced. I want to bring in some rebound to correct this but I am not sure which setting I need to change. I've mucked around but can't seem to get it sorted.

Now fox doesn't say much about HSR/LSR in their set up guide for the 40's but the X2 tuning guide says this....
View attachment 350629
So I'll assume (usually a very bad idea I know) that the same applies to the 40's. I believe this is counter intuitive in that a heavy landing using full stroke would be a LOW speed compression/rebound where as something like braking bumps would be HIGH speed compression/rebound. I know that's also high frequency but I don't think I'm getting frequency and speed mixed up here. Braking bumps would be short but fast strokes where as a full stroke landing would be a slower event is how I think of it, probably incorrectly. I'm also coming from PUSH coil suspension which is the opposite of Fox and the way I understand compression and rebound.

So after war and peace here is my question..... Which rebound should I be changing to get the bike back into balance on a jump? Would you consider the launch of a jump (I know it depends on the jump but generalizing here) to be a High or Low speed event???

Any help or suggestions are much appreciated and I'll put em into practice this Thursday and Friday at Thredbo.

Cheers Scott.

There's some really good Tuesday Tune video from Vorsprung discussing high and low speed compression and rebound. Surprise surprise the compression and rebound adjusters work completely differently.

I found this video particularly enlightening

TLDR set hsr to max and play around with lsr.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[EsPeGe]

Front wheel high suggests you're getting too much "pop" from the front or too little from the rear.

Good point, I'm pretty confident it's the latter.

Too little pop from the rear can be caused by too much LSC, LSR or even HSR.

My feeling here is that it's a rebound thing. Whilst I'm not yet 100% happy with compression I'm close with it.

Try back to back riding with full HSR / no LSR and full LSR / no HSR and you should get an idea for how your fork/shock behaves according to the adjusters.

Yeah probably the best way to do it is gross adjustment to make sure I'm going the right way then fine tuning.

 

[EsPeGe]

I'm certainly no expert, however I would have thought that compression would affect the bike more on take off than rebound.

Rebound comes in at the point you unload the bike on a jump. If your rebound is too fast (particularly on the back) then as you unload the back end lifting off the jump the rear kicks up and you go over the front.

You'd want to firm up compression so that the front end doesn't absorb the jump leading to nose down.

In my case I'm pretty sure it's the back end and it's the rebound I just can't work out if it's high speed or low.

I imagine low speed circuit would have a lot to do with this on a flowy jump, high speed if it has a shorter hard kicker.

Makes sense but there has to be some middle ground that works on both though.

 

[EsPeGe]

There's some really good Tuesday Tune video from Vorsprung discussing high and low speed compression and rebound. Surprise surprise the compression and rebound adjusters work completely differently.

I found this video particularly enlightening

TLDR set hsr to max and play around with lsr.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

Yep seen that video and I'm happy to admit there is a LOT in there that I don't get. Thanks for the link.

 

[Oddjob]

Yep seen that video and I'm happy to admit there is a LOT in there that I don't get. Thanks for the link.

In summary: compression is driven by rider input working against the spring, this means that there is a wider range of forces and speeds at play so hsc and lsc are both important and interact a lot.

Rebound is driven by the return pressure of the spring, so the force and shaft speed is capped by the spring pressure. This means that lsr has a much bigger impact then hsr. In fact you can max out hsr and just control rebound behaviour through lsr.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

 

[c3024446]

Borrowing a Shockwiz and seeing what changes (if any) that suggests may be a good idea.

 

[Flow-Rider]

Yep seen that video and I'm happy to admit there is a LOT in there that I don't get. Thanks for the link.

What he's basically saying is that the shock adjusters overlap a lot and work more efficient at certain ends of the adjustment of the dials but it's also dependant of the bikes lever ratio. He's saying to adjust the shock in this certain sequence below.

 

[EsPeGe]

What he's basically saying is that the shock adjusters overlap a lot and work more efficient at certain ends of the adjustment of the dials but it's also dependant of the bikes lever ratio. He's saying to adjust the shock in this certain sequence below.


View attachment 350652

Ok thanks mate will give it a crack.

 

[EsPeGe]

C

In summary: compression is driven by rider input working against the spring, this means that there is a wider range of forces and speeds at play so hsc and lsc are both important and interact a lot.

Rebound is driven by the return pressure of the spring, so the force and shaft speed is capped by the spring pressure. This means that lsr has a much bigger impact then hsr. In fact you can max out hsr and just control rebound behaviour through lsr.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

cheers buddy. I'm gonna have a crack at it.

 

[EsPeGe]

So I appreciate the info team and I'm sure it's going to help but I'm still curious as to the original question just for future reference. Would a luanch off a jump (again being general here) be a high or a low speed event? I'm leaning towards low.

 

[Chriso_29er]

I spose the question is how quickly is the bike unloaded on a jump? half slow until you reach the end of what ever ramp and then fast!
Tuff question, would vary massively depending on type of take off. But generally speaking I would agree with you, that its slow.
It may also depend on technique, whether you are pumping off or going with the flow.

 

[teK--]

So I appreciate the info team and I'm sure it's going to help but I'm still curious as to the original question just for future reference. Would a luanch off a jump (again being general here) be a high or a low speed event? I'm leaning towards low.

Depends on the slope of the takeoff and approach speed. Obviously fast entry into a kicker willl be moreso HSC than a nice smooth tabletop at a moderate speed.

 

[goobags]

Depends on the slope of the takeoff and approach speed. Obviously fast entry into a kicker willl be moreso HSC than a nice smooth tabletop at a moderate speed.

Playing around with my cane creek shock, I reckon it is high speed rebound as well.

Rebound force is really depending on how much travel has been used. Deep compression will push the shock into high speed rebound. I can hear the RC2 damper on my Lyrik going into the high speed rebound circuit as it’s noisy as hell when I compress the fork far enough (doesn’t have independent HSR and LSR adjustment though)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[EsPeGe]

Depends on the slope of the takeoff and approach speed. Obviously fast entry into a kicker willl be moreso HSC than a nice smooth tabletop at a moderate speed.

In my case it's not compression, I am 99% sure of that. My issue is how the bike reacts at the point of take off so it's rebound for sure. Also given that you say it's kind of both (and I get what you say here as every jump is different) and given both forks and shock have HSR and LSR are you suggesting I could change both???

 

[EsPeGe]

I spose the question is how quickly is the bike unloaded on a jump? half slow until you reach the end of what ever ramp and then fast!
Tuff question, would vary massively depending on type of take off. But generally speaking I would agree with you, that its slow.
It may also depend on technique, whether you are pumping off or going with the flow.

True. So like I said in the post just above, given both forks and shock have BOTH HSR and LSR could I adjust both to achieve what I want??? I think so to some extent.

 

[Isildur]

So I appreciate the info team and I'm sure it's going to help but I'm still curious as to the original question just for future reference. Would a luanch off a jump (again being general here) be a high or a low speed event? I'm leaning towards low.

Off the lip of a jump/kicker it will be LSR that is controlling it at that point, as I doubt you'll be anywhere near the end of the travel as you preload or launch.

I don't know if someone has mentioned it above (ha I tried to read through, I promise), but with Rebound, the Low and High "speed" component is the shaft return speed, not anything else.

RockShox for instance call them Beginning Stroke Rebound (Low Speed Rebound) and End Stroke Rebound (High Speed Rebound), as it all depends on the shaft rebound speed, which is inherently controlled by the point at which it's returning from. Early in the travel, not much spring pressure, so Low Speed Rebound. Deep (like really deep in actual practice) in the travel, lots more spring pressure so High Speed Rebound.

Ah geez, tried to keep it simple but got all detailed!

In short, try your low speed for taking off on jumps.

(but the the converse is for hard/flat/heavy landings, HSR will control how it feels on those ones)

 

[EsPeGe]

Off the lip of a jump/kicker it will be LSR that is controlling it at that point, as I doubt you'll be anywhere near the end of the travel as you preload or launch.

I don't know if someone has mentioned it above (ha I tried to read through, I promise), but with Rebound, the Low and High "speed" component is the shaft return speed, not anything else.

RockShox for instance call them Beginning Stroke Rebound (Low Speed Rebound) and End Stroke Rebound (High Speed Rebound), as it all depends on the shaft rebound speed, which is inherently controlled by the point at which it's returning from. Early in the travel, not much spring pressure, so Low Speed Rebound. Deep (like really deep in actual practice) in the travel, lots more spring pressure so High Speed Rebound.

Ah geez, tried to keep it simple but got all detailed!

In short, try your low speed for taking off on jumps.

(but the the converse is for hard/flat/heavy landings, HSR will control how it feels on those ones)

Thanks mate. I went to Thredo to test all this out and got rained out. I'm keen to give this all ago. What you said is pretty much how I thought it all happened and given I've got it pretty close I'll have at it. If I can't get it right I'll go back to what the boys said above using gross changes then refine!