Greenvalleys proposal - council meeting shellarbour - tuesday 19th october

retroenduro

Likes Dirt
had a look and basically they have a few major concerns that you need to come up with satisfactory answers too. The traffic one is a big issue. can you get access from any other roads?

Just make a list of thier concerns and start ticking them off when you have them resolved.
 

Nerf Herder

Wheel size expert
1) I'd call it something else other then downhill competition mountain bike track.
Why not call it a mountain bike park.
- where do you get 150 to 200 riders ???
2) Toilets ... "Water to be supplied by Contractor" what does this mean ?
3) Whats your plan for parking (I don't know the relevant standards, but will a gravel pit with pine log barriers cover it ?? is this in your plans ?)
- looks like you need to move it away from the gully ?? do you have alternatives planned.
- Also reads like you are cramming alot of stuff in a small location ... so you need to address this perception or redesign to provide the required space.
4) do you have an emergency evac plan ?
5) whats your alternative to the sloping camp site ... presume you don't want to level it ? then again ... you could use the dirt on the tracks.
6) EEC ... how close is this stuff ?? will tracks be running through it ?? a Potential response is "Trail construction will adhere to IMBA Aust trail construction standards with the view of maintaining a high level of trail sustainability, eliminating water run off and associated soil erosion impacts to both the tracks and neighbouring vegetation."
- you could also build in a plan to protect the EEC ? (some kind of segregation, bushcare plan, weed eradication (you could potentially get grants ?? not 100% sure on this).
7) how are traffic volumes measured ?? would have thought you are aiming for a monthly weekend peak period ... so could this limit the traffic volumes ?? you need to find this out/
8) Agriculture ... the paper implies there are issues with impacting to Agriculture ?? WTF ? you should either get this removed or find out what the issues are and address these accordingly
9) DECC blurb
refer to NPWS discussion paper ...
- There are many benefits to MTB (these are listed) ... NPWS recognises the needed and benefits associated with catering for MTB use in National Parks ... similarly they are encouraging that where alternatives are available that these sites be used to cater for the increasing demands ... this proposal fits in with their objectives and potentially reduces pressures away from neighbouring NPs (list these) ... where unapproved trsacks could be created to satisfy future demand by users ??)
10) resources ... are you willing to pay for your own consultants (IMBA) this will reduce some of the burden on council staff ... they can be limited to providing specifications and requirements for the consultant to address ?? more cost for you though.
11) Compliance ... environmental protection.
IMBA standards are your friend ... you need to be quoting these.
Sustainable trails have limited impact to the environment.
- harp on this " ... Preliminary Flora & Fauna assessment supports the proposal" however, you need to address camp ground and other issues raised.
12) Open Space, Recreational and Community Needs Study
This section has all positives ... link this in with NPWS stuff and I think this is your big sell. ie ... the sport is growing and you will have user groups in the near future contacting council to provide facilities on public lands ... you are addressing the preceived riskier end of the MTB spectrum reducing the burden on council and DECC,
- you are diversifiying the potential revenue streams away from the traditional agri business model and helping to facilitate tourism.
13) Bring in tourism can increase the cultural value of the heritage listing on your Greenvalleys cottage (I'm grasping here ??) but again, bring in the tourists.

Sorry ... stopped reading from there ... but my general take so far is
- I think your going for a little too big in terms of numbers 150-200 ... I think you need to make it smaller ... build a track record and then apply for bigger shizz.
- Do you really need to camp grounds and all the related facilities ??
- why not cater for day trippers or build some relationships with the B&B providers ... and take some commissions that way.
Question: ?? is there a local club ?? maybe worth getting them to start hassling for facilities ... looking like the council is willing to support MTB and you could fit in and build on this tourism angle.

I have't really give you any solutions and prolly raised more issues ... but hope it helps.

Good Luck
 
Ha ha.. thanks Nerf..

A lot of whats raised in the report has been answered and addressed thoroughly in planning documents.. but been ignored or has been thoughtfully not mentioned by the council planners..

one example is the "restricive space" that the report suggests i have to house the rego tent, toilets,and canteen , is 100m by 40m.. this is one example of many misleading and tailored comments in the report to make it seem that this proposal, which is for a mtb park, is not suitable.. the downhill track is for mountain bike events on the property. that is what i am asking for.

anyway, If you have a look at my speech i have prepared for the council meeting today, it may provide you with an insight to the proposal..its on the greenvalleys approval process thread

thanks again for the comments nerf..

you certainly know your stuff..
 
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October26

Likes Bikes and Dirt
In my dealings with council / government when they raise a number of issues I always find it helpful to make a table of the issues. In that table clearly address each issue, what has been done about it or what will be done about it to solve the problem. Best of luck, let me know if you need a hand.
 

Nerf Herder

Wheel size expert
sorry for my poor grammar ... I'm amazed anybody understood any of that shizz (soz kids were killing me at the time).

if you'd like to PM or email me your speech, I'm happy to read thru ... I'll even make sure my comments are legible. :eek:

(adavid at bmorc.com)
 

Dobbo

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Its early days yet, and all of the things raised just need to be worked through.

Illawarra councils are VERY conservative and have many other problems that a quick look at the ICAC website would show. However they do not seem to want to pass anything that might actually be good for the area.

Riding here in the UK has shown me just how far behind the rest of the world we are. There are any number of legal places to ride here both in state forests, national parks and private land. For example where I have been riding for the past few weekends there are 4 state forests with legal and well set up DH tracks within a 20mile radius. A LBS even runs a shuttle service for 40 bikes (4 trailers of 10).

Keep going Nick, get it on public exhibition and let the public make comment.

Edit: It sucks that I got up here at 5am UK time to see your address to council, but they won;t actually broadcast them. Fark.
 

sammydog

NSWMTB, Hunter MTB Association
A couple of points. Being a request for a spot rezoning (not a Development Application for those not familiar with the planning process), even if Council support this, it still needs to get through the Department of Planning. This may well prove to be a bigger obstacle than Council as spot rezonings aren't often looked upon too well, particularly when you start to fragment rural and environmental lands. Not to rain on your parade, because I would love to see this get up, but I can't see the Dept altering the zoning under the template LEP.

Back to the report, some comments from me taking into account I've not seen whats been submitted to Council. As I see it there are three main issues,

Fragmentation of Rural/Environmental Lands - This is an issue state wide and does preclude a lot of properties from rezoning and development unless identified in a strategic planning document.

RTA - this could be an issue at the DA stage under SEPP (Infrastructure), depending on the classification of the road, RTA concurrence may well be required under Schedule 3. If they don't like it, and it looks like they have concerns, then Council is powerless even if they wanted to support it. Given the RTA does not support the rezoning, Council may be taking the stance that this issue also makes rezoning the land a futile exercise.

Environmental Issues - The crux here seems to not be so much with the impact of the track (although it is good they have really not covered the impact of spectators in detail), but more so the location and operation of the carpark, camping facilities. Maybe here it is best for now to go back to the original layout that Council was supportive of. If this takes away this issue then you can re address it at DA stage.

It is good to see the social need for the facility acknowledged by the Council, this often doesn't happen, but I think the first two issues are going to be pretty major things for Council to resolve. I wouldn't be surprised if this gets deferred for a site inspection.
 
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