Hardtail Trail bike frame 'opinions'..

[r.ayres1]

Hi there 'R Burners', I wasn't quite sure where to post this question, but anyway - just want to see if anyone out there has tried one of these .. https://surlybikes.com/bikes/karate_monkey_27.5

These newer models seem to be quite trail worthy bikes, and I would like to build up a steel hardtail. I would run a 100mm fork up front (probably).

If there are any other similar steel framed options with similar geometry and wheel capacity please offer your suggestions.

I was looking into the frame only option and building up my own. I am in my mid fifties now and I am steering clear of the really slack headangle options. I know some of them apparently climb well, but that's just not me anymore.

Your thoughts and opinions will be appreciated.

If you need any more information than I have supplied, please just ask..

Cheers

 

[Jpez]

Hi there 'R Burners', I wasn't quite sure where to post this question, but anyway - just want to see if anyone out there has tried one of these .. https://surlybikes.com/bikes/karate_monkey_27.5

These newer models seem to be quite trail worthy bikes, and I would like to build up a steel hardtail. I would run a 100mm fork up front (probably).

If there are any other similar steel framed options with similar geometry and wheel capacity please offer your suggestions.

I was looking into the frame only option and building up my own. I am in my mid fifties now and I am steering clear of the really slack headangle options. I know some of them apparently climb well, but that's just not me anymore.

Your thoughts and opinions will be appreciated.

If you need any more information than I have supplied, please just ask..

Cheers

There are a few steel hardtail aficionados here, me included but you will find a couple of really active threads over on Pinkbike and MTBR if you don’t get much joy here. The Agressive hardtail thread or something. It’s mostly for ‘hardcore hardtails’but there are a bunch of old school guys that don’t particularly want to ride 63. Deg head angle that will be able to point you in the right direction.
But the new Karate Monkey looks pretty sweet.

 

[Mica]

No specific experience with a karate monkey but as someone who has owned a few surlys over the years (and for some stupid reason sold them, what the hell was I thinking) they are superb bikes to ride and amazingly versatile for whatever you throw at them.

Just buy it, you can’t go wrong, until you decide to sell it

 

[SF Trailboy]

What about this with a 120mm fork https://www.merlincycles.com/ritchey-timberwolf-mountain-bike-frame-2017-110830.html

I own a p-29 with a 120mm fork on it and love it.

If they had a large in stock of the timber wolf I wouldn't hesitate

 

[SF Trailboy]

ohh and since I love steel hardtail so much, check out Cotic soul, Stanton slack line, cromag, ragely, genesis there are heaps of good options

 

[Mica]

That’s a bargain!

+1 for the p29. Love mine too

 

[r.ayres1]

Thanks for the replies everyone,

Hey there SF Trailboy - I checked out that Timberwolf, it is a 650B and only takes up to 2.4" 650b tyres (it says that in the description) - I would consider a steel 650B but it would need to take larger tyres (I already have a nice 650B rear wheel in the shed '142 x 12' with a Maxxis DHR II x 2.6, it's just waiting for the right frame to come along . The Slackline - Chromag & Ragleys are Really slack headangle units, not what I am chasing - some are boost rear ends too - I want to use all the gear off either of my current bikes - both are 29er , my rear wheels are 142 x 12 (really don't want to buy another wheel .. I checked out those Cotic hardtails, I had admired them from afar for a long time - looks like now all their rear ends are boost? + add a fair whack for delivery & import Taxes (over that $1000 threshold)..

If I have anything wrong here, please feel free to correct me

I think I will pull the pin on a Surly this week, unless something else sneaks in under the radar.

 

[SF Trailboy]

Ok try a transition trans am http://www.supersports.net.au/online-store/bikes/transition/transition-transam-29-frame

I think you will find Stanton (Sherpa in 29) are 145mm drop outs so it will take your current wheel 142x12 or a boost wheel.

Don't forget to take the VAT off the frame and postage doesn't count to your threshold....

 

[Tubeless]

Thanks for the replies everyone,

Hey there SF Trailboy - I checked out that Timberwolf, it is a 650B and only takes up to 2.4" 650b tyres (it says that in the description) - I would consider a steel 650B but it would need to take larger tyres (I already have a nice 650B rear wheel in the shed '142 x 12' with a Maxxis DHR II x 2.6, it's just waiting for the right frame to come along . The Slackline - Chromag & Ragleys are Really slack headangle units, not what I am chasing - some are boost rear ends too - I want to use all the gear off either of my current bikes - both are 29er , my rear wheels are 142 x 12 (really don't want to buy another wheel .. I checked out those Cotic hardtails, I had admired them from afar for a long time - looks like now all their rear ends are boost? + add a fair whack for delivery & import Taxes (over that $1000 threshold)..

If I have anything wrong here, please feel free to correct me

I think I will pull the pin on a Surly this week, unless something else sneaks in under the radar.

Which Chromags did you look at, is their whole lineup too slack?

 

[pineapplehead]

+1 for Stanton sherpa. It's versatility is the key for me. Can be built up 'hard-core' or commuter, plus will take multiple wheel sizes. I think the sherpa is a pinch slacker than the KM but they're very simular frames. For very similar money the KM comes with a rigid fork though, and perhaps more cage bosses.
I very nearly bought a KM frame but went with the sherpa mostly due to the sizing. KM comes in 16" and 18", but the sherpa had a better fitting 17" for me.
Can't go wrong at all with this sort of frame.

 

[pineapplehead]

Onza bikes do a similar range which is a bit cheaper, although I think from memory it has an eccentric bb, hence I ruled it out as I didn't have any parts to suit

 

[r.ayres1]

Which Chromags did you look at, is their whole lineup too slack?

Really didn't want any slacker than 68deg HA - + I believe they have Boost rear ends.

Onza bikes do a similar range which is a bit cheaper, although I think from memory it has an eccentric bb, hence I ruled it out as I didn't have any parts to suit

I will check these out when I get home tonight

+1 for Stanton sherpa. It's versatility is the key for me. Can be built up 'hard-core' or commuter, plus will take multiple wheel sizes. I think the sherpa is a pinch slacker than the KM but they're very simular frames. For very similar money the KM comes with a rigid fork though, and perhaps more cage bosses.
I very nearly bought a KM frame but went with the sherpa mostly due to the sizing. KM comes in 16" and 18", but the sherpa had a better fitting 17" for me.
Can't go wrong at all with this sort of frame.

The Sherpa is 700 British pounds well over $1000 Aus - with shipping then imports maybe around $1500? + Boost rear?


/ Cheers

 

[pineapplehead]

Really didn't want any slacker than 68deg HA - + I believe they have Boost rear ends.



I will check these out when I get home tonight


The Sherpa is 700 British pounds well over $1000 Aus - with shipping then imports maybe around $1500? + Boost rear?


/ Cheers

Boost rear with separate drop outs.

 

[PJO]

G'day mate,
You have struck on a subject that is close to my heart, I'm also looking in this space at the moment for a 29er hardtail frame.

The KM may have what on paper looks like a relatively steeper head angle but if I'm reading it right that figure (69Deg.) is for a sagged 100mm travel fork (483 axle to crown length). If you want to compare with other frames around you are going to have to adjust that figure, an unsagged 120mm 29er fork is around 520-530mm axle-crown length, that puts the head angle closer to the 67deg. mark.

Plenty of frames around at this sort of head angle. As well as the others mentioned earlier, have you considered a Kona Honzo or Canfield Nimble 9. Both of these frames are around $1100 including shipping. But both of them are boost, unless you find older models.

On that, what are your hubs? Maybe you can get a boostinator adapter for your hub.
http://www.jensonusa.com/Wolf-Tooth-Boostinator

The Onza frames are cheap but the geo is very old school and the 27.2mm seatpost is limiting for getting a dropper post, and I reckon a dropper post is about the best innovation in mountain biking in the last five or so years.

I'm leaning toward the Canfield for mine it is a bit slacker than the Honzo but not much after you take into account the different forks.

Happy hunting!
P.

 

[r.ayres1]

Ok try a transition trans am http://www.supersports.net.au/online-store/bikes/transition/transition-transam-29-frame

I missed this bit yesterday, they have a medium left in stock (perfect) and a touch cheaper $ than the Surly K/M. I checked the Geometry .. 418mm C/stays - Jee wizz they seem short - I am used to 435mm - 44omm - I thought the K Monkey might be a tad short at 423mm - Am I over thinking stuff (again) or will these be OK for general Trail riding? (will I get used to them, or does it change the handling of a bike too much?)
Cheers.

G'day mate,
You have struck on a subject that is close to my heart, I'm also looking in this space at the moment for a 29er hardtail frame.

The KM may have what on paper looks like a relatively steeper head angle but if I'm reading it right that figure (69Deg.) is for a sagged 100mm travel fork (483 axle to crown length). If you want to compare with other frames around you are going to have to adjust that figure, an unsagged 120mm 29er fork is around 520-530mm axle-crown length, that puts the head angle closer to the 67deg. mark.

Plenty of frames around at this sort of head angle. As well as the others mentioned earlier, have you considered a Kona Honzo or Canfield Nimble 9. Both of these frames are around $1100 including shipping. But both of them are boost, unless you find older models.

On that, what are your hubs? Maybe you can get a boostinator adapter for your hub.
http://www.jensonusa.com/Wolf-Tooth-Boostinator

Thanks for the tips on the Head angle I didn't read that measurement was a 'sagged' No. For me personally - I wreckon 68 'ish' is nice H/A for a 29er 'Trail'' bike. My Ants pants wheelset are Stans Flow with NEO hubs (I have two other cheaper sets - but the Flows have held up better than the other 2).
Cheers & good luck with your hunt..

 

[r.ayres1]

Ok try a transition trans am http://www.supersports.net.au/online-store/bikes/transition/transition-transam-29-frame

In regard to Max tyre size for the Transition, I Just checked around and found this .............Max Tire Size 29” x 2.25” w/ FD or 29” x 2.4” w/o FD............. Does anyone know how much clearance there actually is between tyre and frame when running a 2.4 Maxxis? I don,,t usually ride muddy tracks but sometimes it is unavoidable, and the last thing you want is frame damage due to lack of clearance. I am currently running Maxxis DHR II x 2.4 WT
The Surly K/Monkey says max tyre (29er) is 2.5
I just found this pic in my search .. https://www.vitalmtb.com/community/jack-steel,42531/setup,32860 he is running 2.3" Maxxis.. Not much clearance hey..
Then I just found this pic of the K/M (if you click on the small pic inside the link it shows a K/M with 2.4 Maxxis Ardent) https://www.hibike.com/surly-karate...me-kit-2018-p256d2859ac24dca5ccfaf1fe4599f110
Why don't they just add 7 or 8mm to their C/stays so there is more tyre clearance, that would make the K/M stays 430mm (still short?) and give ample mud clearance. Maybe i need to look elsewhere? .........
Cheers

 

[Nambra]

Going to throw the Santa Cruz Chameleon into the fray. Yes, it's alloy and boost rear and relatively pricey for the frame (AU$1199 RRP) but it can run 27.5 x 3.0 and 29 x 2.5 and looks like a shedload of fun.

 

[r.ayres1]

Going to throw the Santa Cruz Chameleon into the fray. Yes, it's alloy and boost rear and relatively pricey for the frame (AU$1199 RRP) but it can run 27.5 x 3.0 and 29 x 2.5 and looks like a shedload of fun.

Cheers bud, I watched the edit - it does look good. But, I need to take a deep breath and go back to what I really wanted (I think ..) (all of the above mentioned bikes 'are worthy' - but this list is getting bigger by the day. So........Steel frame - 29er wheel capable (up to 2.5" tyres hopefully) - 68deg H/A give or take .5 or so - 43omm C/stays give or take a touch there also - 142 x 12 rear + At least have internal routing for a dropper post (not too worried about other cable routing - in or out is ok). - hopefully around $999 (for O/S stuff) or a few hundred more if sourced within Australia, I don't mind paying for all the little extras like headsets etc - but like I said before - 1K and over = import duties - I know first hand that this applies) .
Cheers again..

 

[r.ayres1]

Good morning gents,
'SF Trailboy' mentioned this in an earlier reply.. Could someone please explain what this means......... 'Don't forget to take the VAT off the frame .........?'
I have bought parts and frames from CRC and Merlin and Jenson, and never heard come across it.
Cheers

 

[Nambra]

VAT is like GST and they subtract it for non-EU shipping destinations. Germany has 19% VAT for example, so when you change the shipping destination to Australia on a German website like Bike24.com, the prices are reduced by 19%. Most sites like Merlin and CRC will automatically be subtracting the 20% UK VAT if you've logged in with an account that has an Aussie shipping address.

Did I explain that clearly? I'm still half asleep...