Food/Diet help for the skinny kids - putting on size and protein suppliment suggestions

shirtz

Likes Bikes and Dirt
hi guys, need some advice.

Always been the skinny kid but am pretty fine with it. did tough mudder, city to surf and cardio most days. Went and gave blood the other day and had great iron levels and blood pressure but when she weighed me i was a bit surprised how light i was. chucked in my 75kg and 190cm height into a BMI calc and i was in the "normal" range but according to it, could add another 10kg and still be normal!

i know BMI isnt everything, but also felt pretty weak when it came to the tough mudder so was thinking a bit of size and strength would be good. im a newb so have no idea where to start. read a few things and am considering taking a few protein shakes a day and doing something like the 5x5 stronglifts program. what do you think? any protein recomendations? is a better beginners program out there?

im sure there a ton of fit but skinny guys here that would know something or like to know!
 

dain2772

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I am keen to see the responses on this, I have a similar shape and looking to put on weight.

My plan at the moment is similar to the 5x5 - ie big lifts involving a lot of muscle groups in each exercise, not isolation exercise and increasing food intake.

One mistake I have made previously is increasing bad foods, I am now trying to increase veggies and a bit more protein to avoid just putting on fat, which I have done.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
Dont go chucking protein.
Most new guys think oh ill down some protein some creatine hit the gym and ill be good.

70-80% of the work is done outside of the gym.
The effort is rest and food.

If you are looking to put on size you want to use 80% 1RM and life 8-12 reps with 60-90sec rest periods. The rest periods between sets actually has a effect on the level of test and growth hormone that is released.
Aim to get your workout done within 45min and no more than 1hour. Your test levels decline at these points.
shakes and bars should only be used either during workouts after or just before. You only want to use them through the day to make up nutritional gaps if you cannot get a meal in. Food> supplements

Aim for fresh, unprocessed foods, so cut all all that white crap and quick meals. Its time to eat brown whole grain foods and complex carbs with low GI. eat enough calories a day you need to eat for the weight you want to be, so if you want to put on 10kg eat like you whey 10kg more. If you start putting on too much fat back off the calories a little.

Cut out carbs 3 hour minimum before bed and eat a meal of protein and fat before bed, If you cant eat anything or cant find anything you like You can use a shake for this just make sure it is casein not whey protein and add some good fats and take it with water.
Reason is once you sleep your Gh peaks,This is responsible for burning fat and building muscle, insulin inhibits GH from peaking, carbs boost insulin hence no carbs before bed.

Aim for regular meals 2-3 hours apart this keeps your body going and fueled allowing you to remain in anabolic state while limiting fat storage.

You want to get adequate rest too and have a proper routine whether that is a split or a full body routine you want to goto the gym with a goal know what your doing, get in workout focus on working out and then get out.

For weight gain focus on compound workouts like squats, deadlifts, rows, bench etc, these not only improve hormone production but work the whole body and promot the most overall growth. isolation exercises can be used to train weaker or under developed areas.

Creatine, Im on the fence with creatine, the long term effects are still unknown and the amount needed to saturate the muscles are quite significant while increasing stress on the kidneys, creatine essentially helps the muscle store fluid and it helps to lengthen the ATP ADP process. ATP is used for short burst of energy. Creatine will help this so to get benefit from creatine you need to push out those extra reps and use the extra ATP there. This might mean you can up the weight by like 1kg. I personally don't see much use for it in body building. for sport with sprints I can.

But weight training is about consistency.

Whey protein is fast absorbing, casein is slow.
With whey aim for whey isolate
Here is a link it goes into detail about different processing methods and also explains hydrolyzed proteins
http://sportsnutritioninsider.insid...whey-concentrates-vs-isolates-vs-hydrolysates

When you see something like 100% whey it doesn't actually contain 100% whey you need to look on the back and checkout the serving size then protein content ie a 50gram serving that only offers 35gram protein is only 70% protein per ser. You also need to look at the list many products will mix concentrate isolate and other forms of protein together. You want most if not all your protein to be a high quality type (definitely not concentrate) with a high rating per ser.
Don't bother with GNC best to stick with something like scivation or another well known product.
I'll write more later on :) (and fix the spelling mistakes :/)

remember though I am not qualified and you need to make sure you are all clear by a medical professional before hand. Also i will stress than form and working to your limits is key to limiting injuries. Don't worry what you look like in the gym do you own work, do it well and be consistent
 
Last edited:

brettd

Likes Bikes
Expensive proteins arent going to make you bigger!! They will add to your protein intake and are good after a workout/ride while the muscle rests.

Get into protein such chicken, eggs, meat etc..Eating rubbish food will definitely gain you some weight but its called 'fat'.

I too compete(multisport) (and having a similar but maybe not as light build) find I can fluctuate quite a bit before an event.

The best thing I have found to keep your body metabolising and growing is the old 6 meals a day, always have snacks on hand.. Nuts, fruit, yoghurt, WATER
 

Trigger02

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Dont go chucking protein.
Most new guys think oh ill down some protein some creatine hit the gym and ill be good.

70-80% of the work is done outside of the gym.
The effort is rest and food.

If you are looking to put on size you want to use 80% 1RM and life 8-12 reps with 60-90sec rest periods. The rest periods between sets actually has a effect on the level of test and growth hormone that is released.
Aim to get your workout done within 45min and no more than 1hour. Your test levels decline at these points.
shakes and bars should only be used either during workouts after or just before. You only want to use them through the day to make up nutritional gaps if you cannot get a meal in. Food> supplements

Aim for fresh, unprocessed foods, so cut all all that white crap and quick meals. Its time to eat brown whole grain foods and complex carbs with low GI.
This is exactly how i went from 76kg's to 82 or 88 if doing set's, having thick legs from short burst, hard riding is also help-full, not long rides. just short hard sprints and mash that chain and get jelly legs.
Single speed!
 
Last edited:

Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
hi guys, need some advice.

Always been the skinny kid but am pretty fine with it. did tough mudder, city to surf and cardio most days. Went and gave blood the other day and had great iron levels and blood pressure but when she weighed me i was a bit surprised how light i was. chucked in my 75kg and 190cm height into a BMI calc and i was in the "normal" range but according to it, could add another 10kg and still be normal!

i know BMI isnt everything, but also felt pretty weak when it came to the tough mudder so was thinking a bit of size and strength would be good. im a newb so have no idea where to start. read a few things and am considering taking a few protein shakes a day and doing something like the 5x5 stronglifts program. what do you think? any protein recomendations? is a better beginners program out there?

im sure there a ton of fit but skinny guys here that would know something or like to know!
I'll tell you want you don't want to hear... there is NO chance you'll be putting on any muscle mass! you're doing marathon type events and aerobic activity daily, the calorie output from this along with mTOR pathway (the metabolic/DNA pathways that regulates muscle growth) being blocked by all the aerobic acitivity, it's not going to happen.

I'm your height and 30kg heavier BMI is just shy of obese, waist to hip ratio is normal - I only ride 1-2 weekly at the moment so I can put on mass. When I was riding around 4-6 hours daily (bicycle courier) or labouring I could not put on mass was under 80kg and ate a lot, to much energy output.

I am well qualified and experienced - I also think if you feel strong enough to do anything you want/need to do, don't worry about your BMI (unless its >>>>) Off topic, I have a client with a BMI of 62, now he needs to be scared.

If you are looking to put on size you want to use 80% 1RM and life 8-12 reps with 60-90sec rest periods. The rest periods between sets actually has a effect on the level of test and growth hormone that is released.
I was about to say this exact thing, 5x5 is not enough volume for muscle growth. 5x5 is good for developing some strength and power but you must have periods of greater volume to develop more mass. For gym amateurs 3-4 sets per muscle group is perfect, for well trained 6-8 sets is optimal (presuming around 8-10 reps). To lazy to retrieve links, been a long week.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
MWI noted your most important goal....limit the aerobic training. It is hard to do and your fitness will suffer slightly, though once you have the muscle there it is much harder to loose it. Unlike fat and carbs which we burn first , muscle is used as a last resource for fuel, you can also maintain your strength with just a few days at the gym rather than a full blown routine like when bulking.
lay off the riding, bulk up then focus on dropping the extra fat you put on (it is inevitable you will put on some fat when bulking) and bring your cardio back up. Our body is good at returning to a fit state once we begin exercising again.


I have a varied opinion on the cardio though, it is very much dependent on your body type thinner people should do a little less, I feel long workouts will be detrimental due to the way your body adapts it wants to shed weight and muscle. However I don't think there would be detrimental effects for short sprints as long as you are eating and drinking fuel before, during and refueling after exercise. If you fuel prior for your exercise and fuel during and after your body should cope fine but that means upping your calories even more to account the loss. If you have adequate carbs as this is the primary fuel for sprints (anaerobic) you should be fine. I am unsure what the after effect of exercise is and if it blocks the body from building afterwards. MWI can you elaborate on this maybe?
I understand while these workouts can increase your resting metabolic rate for 24-48 hours we could equate for this with more calories.

MWI would anaerobic sprints still promote your body to keep muscle low?

Personally as I am too wanting to bulk and keeping the cardio sessions to 2 a week ideally if they are HIIT that will provide maximum benefit for cardio and 2 a week being adequate.
 
Last edited:

Blackstar

Likes Bikes
Good thread.

Agree with no carbs before bed. Makes it harder to get to sleep.

Overweight people should avoid fat after dark. Stop their body storing it in their sleep.
 

willsy01

Eats Squid
Good thread.

Agree with no carbs before bed. Makes it harder to get to sleep.

Overweight people should avoid fat after dark. Stop their body storing it in their sleep.
Yeah that's all a myth. Your body doesn't know what time it is.....
 

scblack

Leucocholic
I am well qualified and experienced - I also think if you feel strong enough to do anything you want/need to do, don't worry about your BMI (unless its >>>>) Off topic, I have a client with a BMI of 62, now he needs to be scared.
I've never worried about BMI, had it measured a few times when I was at uni, or around 30years old playing footy. I am 171cms tall, and weighed up to 90kgs, generally around 85kgs.

Although I was classified as "Morbidly Obese" by the BMI system, I did not really have an ounce of fat on me, just legs like tree trunks and solid muscle. Being skinny and playing first grade rugby union do not mix.
 

disappearin

Likes Dirt
The idea of no or low carb meals before bed is related to insulin levels. Basically a high carb meal will raise insulin levels which encourages our bodies to store glucose from the bloodstream in to our muscles and fat cells. Protein will increase the levels also but not to the degree as a meal of high carbs and protein.
 
Last edited:

Pastavore

Eats Squid
I'll tell you want you don't want to hear... there is NO chance you'll be putting on any muscle mass! you're doing marathon type events and aerobic activity daily, the calorie output from this along with mTOR pathway (the metabolic/DNA pathways that regulates muscle growth) being blocked by all the aerobic acitivity, it's not going to happen.

I'm your height and 30kg heavier BMI is just shy of obese, waist to hip ratio is normal - I only ride 1-2 weekly at the moment so I can put on mass. When I was riding around 4-6 hours daily (bicycle courier) or labouring I could not put on mass was under 80kg and ate a lot, to much energy output.

I am well qualified and experienced - I also think if you feel strong enough to do anything you want/need to do, don't worry about your BMI (unless its >>>>) Off topic, I have a client with a BMI of 62, now he needs to be scared.



I was about to say this exact thing, 5x5 is not enough volume for muscle growth. 5x5 is good for developing some strength and power but you must have periods of greater volume to develop more mass. For gym amateurs 3-4 sets per muscle group is perfect, for well trained 6-8 sets is optimal (presuming around 8-10 reps). To lazy to retrieve links, been a long week.
MWI is the man, advice is always spot on.

Because I like to keep it simple: less endurance, more food, lots of lifting. And don't expect to put it on quickly.
 

shirtz

Likes Bikes and Dirt
MWI is the man, advice is always spot on.

Because I like to keep it simple: less endurance, more food, lots of lifting. And don't expect to put it on quickly.
Thanks for your comments all.

Seems i will have to have quite a lifestyle change if im wanting to do this. Will keep you posted on what i do, but im glad i started the thread, as i assume plenty of guys on here are like me.

got any eating plans that could be usefull? mates have just done the 6 meals of rice and tuna, but thats not for me! love chicken though.
Im living pretty healthy/lean these days so if i was to take protein i wouldnt want to get something that could potentially wreck my kidneys either!
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
Yeah that's all a myth. Your body doesn't know what time it is.....
In terms of actually time no your body does not know that it's 10pm or 7am but it does follow a routine.
Our hormones fluctuate depending on the state of the body. Melatonin is also another chemical that is regulated primarily by light but also by your routine.
Not sure of you read my post but i explain the reason you would see the no carbs before bed is because once you sleep your bodies hormones change levels and growth hormone rises.

Your body knows when it's asleep and it knows what It needed and how to act, once you sleep your body naturally peaks GH and this is where the carbs before bed comes in.
Hence why I suggest 3hours prior not a time of day.
GH is responsive for building muslce and bring fat hence the rule is applies to bulking and fat lose.

In terms of no fat after dark I agree with you there, that's not a issue of Tim I think if anything that's a issue of a higher calorie food late at night when energy needs tend to be much lower. So I wouldn't say no far after dark

i will also note carbs don't necessarily make it hard to get to sleep, simple sugars would give you a spike but it's more likely to be protien and fat and fibre that keeps someone awake as the digestive system is working harder.
 
Last edited:

driftking

Wheel size expert
Thanks for your comments all.

Seems i will have to have quite a lifestyle change if im wanting to do this. Will keep you posted on what i do, but im glad i started the thread, as i assume plenty of guys on here are like me.

got any eating plans that could be usefull? mates have just done the 6 meals of rice and tuna, but thats not for me! love chicken though.
Im living pretty healthy/lean these days so if i was to take protein i wouldnt want to get something that could potentially wreck my kidneys either!
If you don't want to count calories.
Aim for half the plate full of veggies and salad.
1/4 complex carbs
1/4 lean protien turkey, good fish like salmon, lean beef, chicken etc
Get some good fats at each meal too, whether it's avocado a bit of olive oil, flax seeds.
And eat every 2-3h.

When working out just use a whey protien you don't need stupid amount like 40grams after.
A simple shake with water of 20g protien and 40-60g carbs is enough.
You will have plenty of nutrients in your diet.

To keep it simple eat healthy just eat more of everything not just protien pound those veggies and get some fruit in you to.

To get more indepht you need to work your calories out its ideal for specificity but most people can't be bothered.
 
Last edited:
Top