Food/Diet help for the skinny kids - putting on size and protein suppliment suggestions

driftking

Wheel size expert
thanks for the replies guys.

After Grrilla's comment about the 5/3/1 work out i did some reading and got jims book. a few explanations here:

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=112382761

http://www.jimwendler.com/2011/09/531-for-a-beginner/

looks pretty good, but a little complex for a n00b. should i start with the workout i posted (with MWi's modifications) or just start with something like the 5/3/1 program??

will post up diet stuff during the week. my brain is sore from researching!
One of those links addresses that issue, he talks about how forums can be dangerous for beginner than shows a modification for a beginner. No doubt his book will be significantly more detailed. I'd wait it out till it arrives.
Most the advice actually all the advice on here is pretty spot on from my research so I think if you take MWI routine and use that I'd expect you will be fine.

The most important thing is just to lift within your limits. By limits I mean lift only if you can maintain proper form. If your form suffers you are asking for a injury, poor form also yield lesser results and imbalances.
Be careful and take a session or two to find your right starting weight.

That's just what I would do though :)
Ultimately it's a forum it's your decision and you will be accountable for the way you lift so do what you feel comfortable with.

I always thought the 5/3/1 was a simple workout it's basic stuff just utilized well. I think once you get the book and wrap your head around it you will probably find its easier than initially thought.
 
Last edited:

shirtz

Likes Bikes and Dirt
One of those links addresses that issue, he talks about how forums can be dangerous for beginner than shows a modification for a beginner. No doubt his book will be significantly more detailed. I'd wait it out till it arrives.
Most the advice actually all the advice on here is pretty spot on from my research so I think if you take MWI routine and use that I'd expect you will be fine.

The most important thing is just to lift within your limits. By limits I mean lift only if you can maintain proper form. If your form suffers you are asking for a injury, poor form also yield lesser results and imbalances.
Be careful and take a session or two to find your right starting weight.

That's just what I would do though :)
Ultimately it's a forum it's your decision and you will be accountable for the way you lift so do what you feel comfortable with.

I always thought the 5/3/1 was a simple workout it's basic stuff just utilized well. I think once you get the book and wrap your head around it you will probably find its easier than initially thought.
thanks for the advise. I have the ebook (found it online) let me know if anyone wants it.

Will stick to the routine i posted first and go from there i think. cheers!
 

Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
Write out a reply... browser decides to delete, too lazy to rewrite it all.

Lateral lunge is good, I also like a really wide sumo squat - my adductors hate it but. You could also do a low volume mobility / flexibility program on the side, souldn't effect mass building due to the low intensity nature of it.

Can I ask what have you done to your legs? I presume back is ok, looking at what else you can do - why can’t you do legs at all? I train people post hip replacement, knee replacement, back surgery, ACL/PCL as soon as the anaesthesia wears off. Admittedly it is often next to no load and completely focused on movement control.

Rest between sessions and set/rep ranges are good.

Day one, chest biceps is a really strange mix. I’d be inclined to suggest something like tricep pushdown instead of curls – BUT depending how hard you train 48 hours may not be enough to recover before you hit them again with a shoulder work out, but they are already being heavily recruited with bench, incline and/or dips.

21’s, you mean by training at 7reps low range movement, 7reps high range and the last 7reps in the mid or whole range? If so, don’t waste your time, partial movements in resistance training have not ever been shown to be effective compared to full range movements, as in partial range movements the numbers of cross bridges active is heavily reduced and stretch (under load at full range) is a minor but important stimulus for growth.

Day two, aim to do the most challenging exercises first, chins, military press, lateral raises, skull crushers then shrugs (shrugs last as upper traps needs to support the posterior shoulder girdle during all the other exercises). If chins are too easy at 3x8 hang a plate – much better than going to fatigue, especially if you can do 20+.

Day three, order it chins, seated row and then bench rows – also a good day to do curls.

If you are in Melbourne and need some help, throw me a PM.

Always put your exercises in order that you are going to do them and do the hard / posture demanding exercises first.

Abs last (I'd imagine that's what you were doing - need them for stability during compound movements).
BB row after box squats (Box squats complex and potentially dangerous exercise - rows afterwards to minimise general fatigue prior to B squats).
dips before military press (MP will completely fatigue tri's limiting how many reps/load you can do on dips)

P.s MWI Mr anti core specific workouts, did you just suggest abs? haha.
Psychology! if you tell young enthusiastic males not to train abs, they ignore everything else you say.
 

dain2772

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Is there any difference between doing:

- A circuit of different exercises, say 3 times
- Each exercise 3 times before moving onto the next one
- supersetting/pairing exercises, completing 3 sets for each pair?

I quite like the circuit for variety, but I am not sure whether I should be doing all in one go for better results.

Doing usually 3 sets, 8-10 reps of about 5-6 exercises.
 

spj

Likes Bikes
Hey MWI, tried sending you a couple of PM's but they aren't showing up in my sent items folder...

This was the latest one anyway.

G'day mate,

Tried sending you a 500 odd word pm last night but it looks like it didn't get through to you. So I'll try to make it a quick spiel instead and hopefully it still makes sense.

Legs - ++ shin splints +1 year. Mid tib stress fractures ~6 months. Back to shin splints now. Was playing volleyball, soccer, rock climbing at initial diagnosis. Stopped everything but rock climbing for +6 months, in that time shin splints went to stress fractures with no notable cause. Seeing sports physician at OPSMC now. Back to shin splints - bone scans shows current osteophyte activity, xray shows no fractures at current.

Currently wearing custom orthotics and runners for 4 weeks straight, if pain persists will be going on corticosteroids.

Day one - chest biceps is to make sure that I get the max out of triceps on the skull crushers (probably not that important now that you point it out).

Have slowly decreased 21's already, will be stopping completely now, good advice.

Rockclimbing really improved my chinups, never really had a problem doing them whereas I've always had skinny shoulders and see military press better for building size (although currently pushing more then my own bodyweight on smith and can hand stand push ups for >15 reps). Not too keen on hanging a weight for chin ups, +5 years ago broke collarbone and dislocated AC, never been the same, never did enough rehab. Currently holding a referral for OPSMC to take a look at this as well try to sort it out.

Day three - again with chins, using them only for lats easily (lat pull down doing more then my body weight so it got too difficult).

Funnily enough I am in Melbourne, studying first year med at Monash, exams in a couple of weeks and then will be going back to Queensland for the holidays (17 weeks) so I'm not sure what I will do in terms of rehab then. Hopefully going to save up for a new bike and car though so I can actually ride next year!

Feel free to ask me to explain anything I may not have been clear about.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
Is there any difference between doing:

- A circuit of different exercises, say 3 times
- Each exercise 3 times before moving onto the next one
- supersetting/pairing exercises, completing 3 sets for each pair?

I quite like the circuit for variety, but I am not sure whether I should be doing all in one go for better results.

Doing usually 3 sets, 8-10 reps of about 5-6 exercises.
I'll let MWI answer that though I wanted to say if I super set I do allowing exercises well more specific in related exercises that dont use the same muscle. That way or you really do is cut down training time.

That's just my opinion though.
 

driftking

Wheel size expert
sorry guys was on the phone so that post didn't make much sense, auto correct mixed with some miss typing.
Yes antagonistic muscles or completely none related.

I don't see how supersetting the same muscle with two exercises can be the most effective way, I mean I wont go as far to say it doesn't work, we know it does, but in terms of practicality, if you set your muscle one way then use that same primary muscle or even as a supporting muscle for the next movement you are not only limiting its recovery time between sets but you are limiting its ability to perform on the next set.

For endurance I see it having more merit though for hytropathy or strength workouts your body needs that recovery time between sets for that muscle just worked.
 
Last edited:

dain2772

Likes Bikes and Dirt
sorry, I didn't specify, but I meant supersets with different muscles - ie bench and rows, rows and military press, or upper/lower body.
 

Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
Hey MWI, tried sending you a couple of PM's but they aren't showing up in my sent items folder...

This was the latest one anyway.

G'day mate,

Tried sending you a 500 odd word pm last night but it looks like it didn't get through to you. So I'll try to make it a quick spiel instead and hopefully it still makes sense.

Legs - ++ shin splints +1 year. Mid tib stress fractures ~6 months. Back to shin splints now. Was playing volleyball, soccer, rock climbing at initial diagnosis. Stopped everything but rock climbing for +6 months, in that time shin splints went to stress fractures with no notable cause. Seeing sports physician at OPSMC now. Back to shin splints - bone scans shows current osteophyte activity, xray shows no fractures at current.

Currently wearing custom orthotics and runners for 4 weeks straight, if pain persists will be going on corticosteroids.

Day one - chest biceps is to make sure that I get the max out of triceps on the skull crushers (probably not that important now that you point it out).

Have slowly decreased 21's already, will be stopping completely now, good advice.

Rockclimbing really improved my chinups, never really had a problem doing them whereas I've always had skinny shoulders and see military press better for building size (although currently pushing more then my own bodyweight on smith and can hand stand push ups for >15 reps). Not too keen on hanging a weight for chin ups, +5 years ago broke collarbone and dislocated AC, never been the same, never did enough rehab. Currently holding a referral for OPSMC to take a look at this as well try to sort it out.

Day three - again with chins, using them only for lats easily (lat pull down doing more then my body weight so it got too difficult).

Funnily enough I am in Melbourne, studying first year med at Monash, exams in a couple of weeks and then will be going back to Queensland for the holidays (17 weeks) so I'm not sure what I will do in terms of rehab then. Hopefully going to save up for a new bike and car though so I can actually ride next year!

Feel free to ask me to explain anything I may not have been clear about.
When I checked last night I have both messages in my email, but not in my inbox here (which I don't look in unless something pops up), weird.

It sounds like you are having no luck with all the various people you have seen, OPSMC has a good reputation, I'd imagine they'd have a lot of experience with stress fractures.

What was the cause of the shin splints? obviously it was volleyball, field sports and running. But do they actually tell you the mechanism of injury? - collapsing arch, tendinopathy, stress ftactures initially, some form of predisposition?

Advice not to train legs I think is very conservative, as high rates of force development and impact are contraindicated, not the gradual but high loading that is seen in resistance training - particularly in an exercise like squats/leg press where the load is axial (down the length of the bone) vs transverse loading such as in something like leg extension. That being said I also highly recommend doing what the Dr recommends.

Cochraine review on treatments here:http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD000450.pub2/abstract;jsessionid=C52354C13789A65D90339ABD80FC2547.d03t02

Yes, I taught for a few years, the other teacher/trainers really liked 21's, even though they were 'invented' by a guy when he was a teenager, have never be investigated scientifically and have no basis judged in the principles on how muscles are stimulated to grow.

Weighted dips, great exercise until you have a shoulder problem, just add say 2.5/5kg initially so its a very small increase. If you can military press your own weight on the smith with out joint pain, I bet your shoulder are fully rehabilitated!

Yeah, there is a certain logic in your case in doing chest/bi's as theres 48 hours before the next training session anyway.

I'll let MWI answer that though I wanted to say if I super set I do allowing exercises well more specific in related exercises that dont use the same muscle. That way or you really do is cut down training time.
That's just my opinion though.
Two ways to super set:

1) save time, it means you can train separate muscle groups with out a pause between the sets, as in effect you are training another muscle group during the rest period of the first. From a sports performance stand point, not the best way to train, but from time saving / getting a few more sets in during a session, for the average bloke who wants some strength and mass (for the beach) good approach.

People usually super set isolated movements - bi's / tri's; you could do something like squats / bench press, but I think all over fatigue with gross compound movements would negatively effect training quality if you are aiming for strength gains - particularly if you are at a plateau.

2) to target a particular muscle, if done intelligently works well, I have NEVER seen anyone in a gym do this intelligently. for example you can superset bench press with pec dec, so both exercises will work pec major heavily, but only bench will target triceps. It basically means you can do twice the volume for pecs, but not flog the tri's so you can still do something like military press without tri's completely failing and compromising the amount of loading.

Most idiots at my gym, tend to do something like bench/skull crushes or bench/dips or bench/incline - this completely fatigues the assistant muscle groups (tri's/ant delt) and means intensity on the prime mover (pecs) is compromised.

Much easier to explain in person than type out and I need to go ride at kinglake today!
 

spj

Likes Bikes
When I checked last night I have both messages in my email, but not in my inbox here (which I don't look in unless something pops up), weird.

It sounds like you are having no luck with all the various people you have seen, OPSMC has a good reputation, I'd imagine they'd have a lot of experience with stress fractures.

What was the cause of the shin splints? obviously it was volleyball, field sports and running. But do they actually tell you the mechanism of injury? - collapsing arch, tendinopathy, stress ftactures initially, some form of predisposition?

Haven't really determined the mechanism of injury yet, took a look at gait, seemed fine, one leg is slightly longer then the other (1-1.5cm). Arches used to be raised, many many years ago, fixed that through orthotics. What tendons could cause shin splints?

No evidence of previous stress fractures. Had a full blood count done, nothing there. The pain used to generally present in my feet before shins (put that down too modifying stride when the foot was sore). This stopped and the pain was just in my shins for about 6 months but now it is back to presenting in the feet first (while wearing orthotics and just from walking). At first diagnosis the amount of sport I was doing was actually reduced significantly from previous years.


Advice not to train legs I think is very conservative, as high rates of force development and impact are contraindicated, not the gradual but high loading that is seen in resistance training - particularly in an exercise like squats/leg press where the load is axial (down the length of the bone) vs transverse loading such as in something like leg extension. That being said I also highly recommend doing what the Dr recommends.
Yeah it is very conservative but with the rate of progression from shin splints to stress fractures with no running etc. I was willing to take the time off. I've had them for so long now that I really just want to get the


Weighted dips, great exercise until you have a shoulder problem, just add say 2.5/5kg initially so its a very small increase. If you can military press your own weight on the smith with out joint pain, I bet your shoulder are fully rehabilitated!

Managing weighted dips with something like 15 or 20kg at the moment.

Only time I ever really have problems with my shoulder are during bench press. Hit a plateau strength wise at about 80kilos on bench and then one day (about 4 weeks ago) went in and during my warm up it felt a little funny (at about 40/50kg), put on 70kg and only managed one rep. No pain at all, had just lost all strength, tried a set of unweighted dips and couldn't hold any weight there either. 10 minutes later the shoulder had swollen up a fair bit, no pain though, odd huh?. Took a week off, went back and started dumbell press. Seems fine so far. Has always felt a little funny with the barbell though.


UPDATE: 14th, hurt the shoulder a bit further today doing dumbell press, think it's actually pec minor thats damaged. Was a bit weak and shaky during the press action. When I stopped had a reasonable amount of pain afterwards, tried out medial rotation with resistance and pec dec, both were painful. Would also explain my slightly winged scap on the injured side.
 
Last edited:

driftking

Wheel size expert
Two ways to super set:

1) save time, it means you can train separate muscle groups with out a pause between the sets, as in effect you are training another muscle group during the rest period of the first. From a sports performance stand point, not the best way to train, but from time saving / getting a few more sets in during a session, for the average bloke who wants some strength and mass (for the beach) good approach.

People usually super set isolated movements - bi's / tri's; you could do something like squats / bench press, but I think all over fatigue with gross compound movements would negatively effect training quality if you are aiming for strength gains - particularly if you are at a plateau.

2) to target a particular muscle, if done intelligently works well, I have NEVER seen anyone in a gym do this intelligently. for example you can superset bench press with pec dec, so both exercises will work pec major heavily, but only bench will target triceps. It basically means you can do twice the volume for pecs, but not flog the tri's so you can still do something like military press without tri's completely failing and compromising the amount of loading.

Most idiots at my gym, tend to do something like bench/skull crushes or bench/dips or bench/incline - this completely fatigues the assistant muscle groups (tri's/ant delt) and means intensity on the prime mover (pecs) is compromised.

Much easier to explain in person than type out and I need to go ride at kinglake today!
Good advice here
My previous post as obvious I use super sets for number 1.
If my routine starts going over that 45-1h window I'll use super sets.

Number two is interesting MWI how does that go for things like hytropathy though? I mean the first set would deplete ATP I would think that by super setting the Same main muscle would result in fairly minimal gains that just doing the normal set. Wouldn't super setting also move the body into a endurance state.

With no rest you are moving into high reps and moving out of hytropathy are you not?
I can't imagine the second way is very effective or the best method of working out. I do realize you stated that already.
 

Mattydv

Likes Bikes and Dirt
only 50-60%? how does that compare to a hypertrophy workout of 3x10 or 3x12 of 80% 1RM? Id be keen to see the evidence base.
I'd also be quite keen to see an evidence base as my physio has suggested similar workouts.

Nothing wrong with training at low reps (to maximise 1RM strength), I do it all the time, but I tend to swap back and forth every 4-8 weeks. Periodisation is always a wise thing to utilise, plan ahead and program into your routine.
Can you elaborate on this a little? I thought I recalled a post from you a number of weeks ago saying that a PL workout never really needs to be changed, provided it covers the basics, but perhaps I'm confusing it with someone else.
 

jonozrx

Likes Dirt
Can you elaborate on this a little? I thought I recalled a post from you a number of weeks ago saying that a PL workout never really needs to be changed, provided it covers the basics, but perhaps I'm confusing it with someone else.
I think that post was in relation to exercise selection and rotation , not periodising total volume/sets/reps.
 

Mywifesirrational

I however am very normal. Trust me.
Haven't really determined the mechanism of injury yet, took a look at gait, seemed fine, one leg is slightly longer then the other (1-1.5cm). Arches used to be raised, many many years ago, fixed that through orthotics. What tendons could cause shin splints?

No evidence of previous stress fractures. Had a full blood count done, nothing there. The pain used to generally present in my feet before shins (put that down too modifying stride when the foot was sore). This stopped and the pain was just in my shins for about 6 months but now it is back to presenting in the feet first (while wearing orthotics and just from walking). At first diagnosis the amount of sport I was doing was actually reduced significantly from previous years.

Yeah it is very conservative but with the rate of progression from shin splints to stress fractures with no running etc. I was willing to take the time off. I've had them for so long now that I really just want to get the

Managing weighted dips with something like 15 or 20kg at the moment.

Only time I ever really have problems with my shoulder are during bench press. Hit a plateau strength wise at about 80kilos on bench and then one day (about 4 weeks ago) went in and during my warm up it felt a little funny (at about 40/50kg), put on 70kg and only managed one rep. No pain at all, had just lost all strength, tried a set of unweighted dips and couldn't hold any weight there either. 10 minutes later the shoulder had swollen up a fair bit, no pain though, odd huh?. Took a week off, went back and started dumbell press. Seems fine so far. Has always felt a little funny with the barbell though.

UPDATE: 14th, hurt the shoulder a bit further today doing dumbell press, think it's actually pec minor thats damaged. Was a bit weak and shaky during the press action. When I stopped had a reasonable amount of pain afterwards, tried out medial rotation with resistance and pec dec, both were painful. Would also explain my slightly winged scap on the injured side.
Shin splints is/can be a very complex injury, often why it drags on for many people.

There are some muscles that run down the front of the shin and under/onto the arch in your foot. If you have an arch that collapses this puts stress on this group and where they originate on your shin (tibia) and an inflammation process occurs (pain). Concurrently you can get stress fractures occurring as well as the arch/foot is no longer able to dissipate forces, and these forces are transferred into the shin.

Was there any click of jolt in your shoulder? could be capsule related (labrum tear?) which would be particularly bad... and also explain lack of pain as the nerve innervation is quite poor. Winging of the scapular suggest serratus anterior is affected. I am guessing this is the bad side? What was the pain during during pec dec and medial rotation? any pain during lateral rotation?

Good advice here
My previous post as obvious I use super sets for number 1.
If my routine starts going over that 45-1h window I'll use super sets.

Number two is interesting MWI how does that go for things like hytropathy though? I mean the first set would deplete ATP I would think that by super setting the Same main muscle would result in fairly minimal gains that just doing the normal set. Wouldn't super setting also move the body into a endurance state.

With no rest you are moving into high reps and moving out of hytropathy are you not?
I can't imagine the second way is very effective or the best method of working out. I do realize you stated that already.
The second method is good for hypertrophy, not so flash for strength gains. With the second method, you still need close to a 30 sec. rest as you swap exercises (otherwise load will be <30%RM?), and %RM will to come down - around 60% (very roughly). With very short rest periods, much higher overall volume at a modest intensity, this results in a large 'pump'. The pump is basically a large plasma shift to the working muscle as you deplete glycogen stores (you never deplete ATP otherwise you die, but you make you muscle work a lot harder for it) the mediators/by products of this are a stimulus for hypertrophy. It does indeed help endurance, but I would think at the expense of strength gains - while maintaining decent levels of hypertrophy.

Theres a young bloke in the office next to me doing a PhD in vascular occlusion and its effects on muscle mass - the 'pump' appears to be very similar in mechanisms http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16902061

Indeed this method needs to be used with caution, I only tend to do it when I am tapering off intensity and doing some volume work.

I'd also be quite keen to see an evidence base as my physio has suggested similar workouts.



Can you elaborate on this a little? I thought I recalled a post from you a number of weeks ago saying that a PL workout never really needs to be changed, provided it covers the basics, but perhaps I'm confusing it with someone else.
Yeah, exactly this:

I think that post was in relation to exercise selection and rotation , not periodising total volume/sets/reps.
Exercise selection never needs to be changed to progress, if you want a decent squat, deadlift, bench... (and build mass) you always do those exercises, but you will need to change total volume/sets/reps/rest periods and sessions per week to overcome plateaus and to keep progressing. There is some good science behind doing this, but it is also part art form. I know a few decently large body builders, none have a clue about science, I am not sure some of them can't even read, but interestingly they generally mimic scientific guidelines without realising it via trial and error. I wonder how much bigger they would be if they had decent advice from the start.
 

spj

Likes Bikes
Was there any click of jolt in your shoulder? could be capsule related (labrum tear?) which would be particularly bad... and also explain lack of pain as the nerve innervation is quite poor. Winging of the scapular suggest serratus anterior is affected. I am guessing this is the bad side? What was the pain during during pec dec and medial rotation? any pain during lateral rotation?
No click, was thinking that I had potentially damaged my brachial plexus when I broke my collarbone and what not causing long thoracic nerve denervation and therefore serratus anterior denervation and subsequent winging of scap. But he winging doesn't seem anywhere near bad enough for it to be that, its not so much forced into the position as it is just comfortable sitting there as well. Winging is on the bad side. Winging has only really been noticed recently though, and has gotten better. Might've just been that I was overloading my back workout giving the rhomboids excessive pump.

But at the same time, pec minor attaches to the coracoid process and has been known (to my knowledge) to produce winged scap, however, apparently this is more from having a tight pec minor which I'd assume is the opposite to what a general tear would produce.

Pain was localised in the T1/T2 dermatomes just under the armpit and only extending maybe 5cm's inferiorly and 3-4cm posterior-anteriorly. No pain during lateral rotation.
 

spj

Likes Bikes
Appointment with sports physician is on wednesday this week btw. If you manage to diagnose this correctly over rotorburn before then I'll give you 10 E-beers!
 

darryl

Likes Dirt
Nice thread, it seems that the 90's still exist in the fitness world with some of the programs being presented for critique. MWI, nice to hear a rational argument with some science behind it, i banged that drum for more than 10 years throughout the 90's and got nothing but a headache, so keep up the good work.

SPJ
Shin splints and stress fractures are independent conditions that can occur concurrently, however, one does not always lead to the other, even though they do have similarities. The following information, is by no means a diagnosis of your condition, but more general information on the conditions you have described.

Shin splints are usually the result of an overuse condition affecting the tibialis posterior muscle, either through poor foot mechanics, combined with a lack of strength and muscle dysfunction. All of these parameters need to be considered in treatment. For instance your orthotics may correct the biomechanics, but will do nothing to restore the muscle function and strength. Restoring the muscle's strength is a delicate procedure, as any activity designed to load the muscle can also aggravate the condition by increasing the amount of use.

Stress fractures as you know are a failure of the bone structure to tolerate repeated loads, usually associated with repetitive high impact style load bearing as seen in runners. Usual treatment is rest until pain subsides then gradually re-introduce load and impact. Foot biomechanics can play a role in this type of complaint, but not always. I've yet to treat a cyclist with stress fractures, but plenty with shin splints. If it continues to recur, then you have to really review the pathomechanics.

Regarding your shoulder, it's near on impossible to give an accurate idea of potential problem due to the complexity of this part of the body. Self diagnosis of a long thoracic nerve palsy is a big call. Scapula winging can be the result of poor muscle balance, overuse, shoulder pain, habit, etc..... And the thoracic facets can actually refer somatic pain without true dermatomal NR irritation. Get it investigated - but you already should know this.

My question is always have you a good physio? If not seek one out, a medical professional will look at the pathology from a medical perspective, which may not include physical rehabilitation.

Just to qualify I am a physiotherapist and exercise physiologist with more than 20 years experience.
 
Last edited:
Top