Holden out of Oz in 2017

moorey

Boom!
Explain to me why we have just given $50m to SPC, when it is owned by coca cola amatil, surely one of the richest companies in history?
 

The Duckmeister

Eats Squid
Oh, and Holden IS NOT AN AUSTRALIAN COMPANY. So before you go out and buy a commodore and stick your dumb arse southern cross sticker on it, know that a Toyota Camry is as Australian as that Commodore you adore.
I read an article years ago (when exporting extended as far as New Zealand) which described the Commodore as a collection of bits (including bodies to a large degree) from GM's global parts bin, tweaked & thrown together into a package unique to Australia.
 

scblack

Leucocholic
Explain to me why we have just given $50m to SPC, when it is owned by coca cola amatil, surely one of the richest companies in history?
I don't believe it has happened as yet. There are a lot of conditions attached before funds are handed over too.

I don't know enough detail to comment on the merits of the decision either way. But there are differences in every individual company and/or situation.
 

John U

MTB Precision
Holden pay Aussie workers a shitload more to make shit cars than they can get shit cars made elsewhere.
Australians do get paid quite well. Not sure that all of GM's cars are shit though.

Should Aussie workers be paid less? Should overseas manufacturers be paid more?

Australia needs to cut the car industry off. It will never improve.
Australian made cars are nearly always improving. Would you not say that the 2013 Commodore is a better car than the 1966 HD Holden Special? The Magna station wagon I drive has been a great car apart from a few minor niggles with the electronics.

Instead of propping up the car industry, the government could have invested that same money in new technologies that actually have a viable future. The car industry is not it.
I agree that the government could invest more in new technologies that have a viable future. Shit, they could invest more in existing technologies such as public transport instead of building more tollways. They should've been making these investments before Holden made it's announcement. I think Gillard set up a few things along these lines and Abbott is now busy trying to gut these initiatives.

I would like to see Australia have as broad an employment base as possible to provide a variety of employment options and to not have a 1 dimensional economy. I really enjoy buying Australian made stuff knowing that the person who made it most likely enjoys all the same privileges I do. I hope Toyota stick around and expand their manufacturing in Australia.

Oh, and Holden IS NOT AN AUSTRALIAN COMPANY. So before you go out and buy a commodore and stick your dumb arse southern cross sticker on it, know that a Toyota Camry is as Australian as that Commodore you adore.
I didn't say Holden was an Australian company. There is nothing wrong with wanting to support an Australian industry.

Had a bad day?
 
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redbruce

Eats Squid
You're comparing a two wheel drive (well one at any time actually) car to an all wheel drive. Your not comparing apples with apples or purely a diesel to a petrol. And leave the Craptiva out of it. Its a pile of rubbish. Only Holden could build a small SUV diesel that averages 13lt per 100ks. A big pajero or patrol is more efficient than that!
Actually, provided both wheels have sufficient traction(ie most of the time) a standard the differential will distribute power to both wheels, most of the time. Add traction control and/or limited slip and you have two wheel drive essentially all of the time.

Running costs of diesel V petrol. Most of the guys here at work used to run their large 4x4's on gas. As they have upgraded to (generally smaller, eg Navara from Patrol) vehicles they have found both the fuel and servicing costs of the diesels higher than the previous LPG rigs (same for the sole owner of a new diesel Territory compared to his previous LPG version). Diesels have attributes that are desirable in a 4X4 but it does come at a cost (but certainly cheaper than petrol versions over the longer term).

LPG prices going through the roof may alter the equation in future however.

From personal experience (work fleet) a diesel Captiva averages more like 11 L/Km, and diesel Patrol 13.5L/100Km (our 79 series V8 troopy's are about the same, notwithstanding the significant engine oil consumption!).

I read an article years ago (when exporting extended as far as New Zealand) which described the Commodore as a collection of bits (including bodies to a large degree) from GM's global parts bin, tweaked & thrown together into a package unique to Australia.
Must have been a long time ago. From the VT onwards they have been exporting to the Middle East, South Africa, Brazil and later the UK and US (premium models) for some time.

The VE/VF is a platform unique to Australia only.
 
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skwiz05

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I think the Falcadore fan boys need to suck it up ( along with other industries) , in that we need to stop blaming the government...... I'd look historically at the Unions......
Always fighting to push up wages for less hours......happened across so many industries.... Now look where we are?
Maybe if we petitioned those countries that manufacture more cheaply than we to stand up a few Unions, give it a hundred years and maybe well be back on a level playing field......
Go figure.....
 

redbruce

Eats Squid
I think the Falcadore fan boys need to suck it up ( along with other industries) , in that we need to stop blaming the government...... I'd look historically at the Unions......
Always fighting to push up wages for less hours......happened across so many industries.... Now look where we are?
Maybe if we petitioned those countries that manufacture more cheaply than we to stand up a few Unions, give it a hundred years and maybe well be back on a level playing field......
Go figure.....
Union bashing is just a variation on Government bashing (and gets us nowhere).

We all share the responsibility and the consequences. However its not unreasonable to expect the Government to govern.
 
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Sethius

Crashed out somewhere
you're all missing the most important point...

What do our future bogans drive now in years to come?
 

moorey

Boom!
Yeah, I bet you hate the wages, conditions, entitlement and holidays that you gained all by yourself, without union influence. Classic 'I'm fine, so fuck them' mentality.
 

scblack

Leucocholic
Have you heard of the Fast and Furious?
They are driving ricers in Fast & Furious (mostly). 4 cylinder high revs, low torque, small capacity. Front drive or sometimes AWD.

Compared to an SS Commodore - V8, large capacity, high torque, lower revs. Rear drive.


Both good cars in their own right, but a SS driver does not really want a 4 cylinder in general. Or vice versa too I suppose.
 
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John U

MTB Precision
I think the Falcadore fan boys need to suck it up ( along with other industries) , in that we need to stop blaming the government...... I'd look historically at the Unions......
Always fighting to push up wages for less hours......happened across so many industries.... Now look where we are?
Maybe if we petitioned those countries that manufacture more cheaply than we to stand up a few Unions, give it a hundred years and maybe well be back on a level playing field......
Go figure.....
Yeah, I bet you hate the wages, conditions, entitlement and holidays that you gained all by yourself, without union influence. Classic 'I'm fine, so fuck them' mentality.
I agree with Moorey on this (no surprises from my previous posts in this thread).

What do you do for a living skwiz05?
 

Sethius

Crashed out somewhere
They are driving ricers in Fast & Furious (mostly). 4 cylinder high revs, low torque, small capacity. Front drive or sometimes AWD.

Compared to an SS Commodore - V8, large capacity, high torque, lower revs. Rear drive.


Both good cars in their own right, but a SS driver does not really want a 4 cylinder in general. Or vice versa too I suppose.
Exactly, theres plenty of hatred between the ricers and commi's. They aren't about to jump into the oppositions car...older euro's they wont touch because their too bigoted and racist and don't want to be identified with the usual drivers.

Holden going under is causing a huge cultural loss to some many Australian's identity.

It's like taking our bikes from us and giving us some cafe racer 28.75" bike, it just won't be the same even it's actually better.

The worst part; and this is my inner tradie bogan coming out; no more preformance Utes. (yes I'm aware it's a oxy-moron.) YAY for silly xr6t utes and maloo's.
 

vtwiz

Likes Dirt
Actually, provided both wheels have sufficient traction(ie most of the time) a standard the differential will distribute power to both wheels, most of the time. Add traction control and/or limited slip and you have two wheel drive essentially all of the time.
.
It's pretty common knowledge that all AWD vehicles like a Subaru outback or forester have lower fuel efficiency compared to a two wheel drive equivalent. There is no point comparing an all wheel drive vehicle to a two wheel drive vehicle when comparing diesel v petrol running costs. I have two friends that drive diesel craptivas (work fleet cars) and they get no better than 13lt per 100ks. That's mainly country driving too.
 

redbruce

Eats Squid
It's pretty common knowledge that all AWD vehicles like a Subaru outback or forester have lower fuel efficiency compared to a two wheel drive equivalent. There is no point comparing an all wheel drive vehicle to a two wheel drive vehicle when comparing diesel v petrol running costs.
a)Your reply doesn't appear related to my quote you cite (which had to do with your earlier incorrect statement regarding the assertion that a two wheel drive vehicle actually only has one wheel driven).

b)Ok I drew too many bows in the one sentence and confused the point. To attempt to bring it back my point, I compared diesel costs to LPG for similar (aka comparable - all 4X4's but same applies to Territory) vehicles, to point out that fuels costs (simplistically assumed from fuel consumption figures) are insufficient to base a cost of ownership on.

It turned out to be a long winded way of saying a larger vehicle on LPG can be more cost effective than a similar or a smaller one on diesel.
 
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