Holden out of Oz in 2017

born-again-biker

Is looking for a 16" bar
Don't worry, Ford produced a lot of POS too, the explorers, mondeo and territorys were some on the worst cars I've ever had to work on, I can not remember being in any shop without a ford in-line 6 head removed and that was even in shops that predominately worked on holden.
Yep, you gotta be a real "enthusiast" to keep and and maintain a Ford. I should know.
.....which is why I was outside late last night fixing the faucken' ignition switch barrel on my ute for the second time in two years :mad::rolleyes:
That "smart" key design they ran for years is the dumbest, most fragile POS I've ever seen.

(hey, it was cheap....it carries bikes and other shit. And parts are cheap. And I'm fond of it BECAUSE it's a POS :D)
 

nathanm

Eats Squid
Don't worry, Ford produced a lot of POS too, the explorers, mondeo and territorys were some on the worst cars I've ever had to work on, I can not remember being in any shop without a ford in-line 6 head removed and that was even in shops that predominately worked on holden.
and that's exactly why I can't understand why Australian's loved holden and ford so much, they truly are some of the worst built cars in Australia with probably the only exception being Jeep.

I cannot understand the hate put on Hyundai and Kia, when they produce the best value for money vehicles going.
 

Flow-Rider

Burner
and that's exactly why I can't understand why Australian's loved holden and ford so much, they truly are some of the worst built cars in Australia with probably the only exception being Jeep.

I cannot understand the hate put on Hyundai and Kia, when they produce the best value for money vehicles going.
Because people in Australia used to be loyal like work places once were but now it's every man and dog for themselves.
It's turned into a throw away industry and not worth looking after a car because they devalue so fast, enter cars like the Great wall, LDV, Tata and competition becomes fierce. Give it time the bigger brands will feel the pinch and start cutting costs.
 

Freediver

I can go full Karen
I've got a near 20 year old Commodore wagon. It's a great workhorse, never breaks down and get all kinds of abuse. In the 10+ years I've had it the only bits that have needed replacing are consumables and the ignition barrel. I'm by no means a Holden fanboy but in all seriousness this has been a really reliable car.
 

born-again-biker

Is looking for a 16" bar
and that's exactly why I can't understand why Australian's loved holden and ford so much, they truly are some of the worst built cars in Australia with probably the only exception being Jeep.

I cannot understand the hate put on Hyundai and Kia, when they produce the best value for money vehicles going.
The Koreans ain't perfect.
 

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
The nationalism of home made car is a big advantage IMHO, even if the parent companies were from the US. They did make some nice looking designs at times. It is pity that we didn't have a bigger market for them to gain more traction and evolve. They just couldn't move to follow market changes and offering rebadged Daewoo's if you didn't want a 4 door sedan seemed to be the way forward.

As a long term accidental early vintage Hyundai owner (I got this fine vehicle from someone else), that car was pretty reliable, not sexy, not fast, sipped fuel, you could park if anywhere and it will be there when you return, you don't go fast uphills, your bike fits in the back with both wheels on, you need to up the idle speed if you want to use the A/C in summer or it will struggle at idle, giving people a ride who own normal cars under 5 years old will make them cringe, asking the concierge to park the Goat in a expensive hotel was always good for amusement " Don't scratch it, I will be checking :) "
It was called the Goat since it was like riding a small legged animal particularly with the stock 155 tyres. Slapping on 175's was the cheapest bang of buck upgrade you could do.

I only failed to proceed incident I had was the ECU packing it in after 20 years and the magic smoke escapes from the capacitors on the motherboard. I serviced it myself for all routine tasks and easy to do things like belt changes etc. Made simple enough to figure out.

I appreciated the hasslefreeness in hindsight and only got rid of it since the 0 star crash rating can't be wise thing plus I had the chance to upgrade while my company was still in flight and had cashflow.

Behold the mighty Goat in all of its middle of the road anonymous averageness with factory unmatched fuel filler paint.
It is pretty odd that sometimes the most imperfect things become memorable but everything has a good side but you might have to look for it.

I didn't have to walk that much. Winning.........

360252
 

Dales Cannon

lightbrain about 4pm
Staff member
Right hand drive market is around 20-25% of sales globally. It seems that all manufacturers except GM find that worthwhile to chase. Out of the major 10 suppliers all the others offer both lhd and rhd models now and into the future. Interesting market plan by GM.

Having met and talked with engineers working for both Ford and Holden (FPV and HSV) I think they are/were pretty switched on and did some great work, particularly in later years when they were working with a product that was fundamentally a decent thing. HSV calibration of the Bosch esc on the commodores was their own as one example. Best esc calibration I have driven. Not to say the cars were without fault, they were still made to a price but bang for buck was good given how much you bought for your money. They were heavy though and heavy on fuel. Neither company saw the changes coming to demand and continued to rely on the big sedans and wagons making a come back. At least Ford had viable smaller cars in the quiver but Holden just had shite to be blunt. GM had the opportunity to make something of the Commodore at home but it was marketed very badly. The ute and in particular the Maloo would have sold in much greater numbers there than here. But I heard from a GM guy in the states that they realised it would take sales away from the home grown 'trucks' and that wasn't an option.

Anyways it is done and the Holden brand will cease to exist as a new entity and in 7 to 10 years so will the support for existing sales.

With regards to dealer support I have owned a number of different brands and the only one that comes close to being exceptional is BMW. All the others have been poor to average. Mazda next best with Toyota and Holden then Ford lagging a long way behind. Having my F6 released to me at 6pm on a wet winter night after a service (and please fix the wind noise from the sunroof that you and the other 3 dealers I have been to only make worse) to find both low beams blown. I had waited about 45 minutes for the car to be finished and when I jumped in and discovered the lack of illumination the workshop was closed and no one could go and get me bulbs for me to swap in the carpark! Luckily it had ridiculous fog lights and I drove home on those via autowhatsit to get bulbs. Then spent about 34 hours fitting the bulbs in the carport because I am not a triple jointed pole dancer with 3m long 20mm diameter arms.

I have had a number of Holdens and HSVs and Fords and FPVs as company cars and personal cars and I was happy with what I had at the time. A few furstrations but overall fond memories. Like others I got out of the large car because on weekends it mostly sat idle and we used the wife's 4wd if we were going away since that meant the beach or fire trails were an option if time allowed.
 

born-again-biker

Is looking for a 16" bar
.....Having met and talked with engineers working for both Ford and Holden (FPV and HSV) I think they are/were pretty switched on and did some great work, particularly in later years when they were working with a product that was fundamentally a decent thing. HSV calibration of the Bosch esc on the commodores was their own as one example. Best esc calibration I have driven. Not to say the cars were without fault, they were still made to a price but bang for buck was good given how much you bought for your money....
That's the thing people quickly forget when they say "good riddance" to the local sedans.
Where else could you get anywhere from 170 to 300 kilowatts + well developed performance suspension packages + heaps of features for the money + big car space & comfort etc etc.....for working man's money? Sure as fuck not in a Sonata.
They were fast, smooth, comfortable and wicked bang-for-the-buck.
And down any twisty back road they were genuinely fast and enjoyable....even the poverty pack ones.

Anyway, it's all dust now.
 

Flow-Rider

Burner
The nationalism of home made car is a big advantage IMHO, even if the parent companies were from the US. They did make some nice looking designs at times. It is pity that we didn't have a bigger market for them to gain more traction and evolve. They just couldn't move to follow market changes and offering rebadged Daewoo's if you didn't want a 4 door sedan seemed to be the way forward.

As a long term accidental early vintage Hyundai owner (I got this fine vehicle from someone else), that car was pretty reliable, not sexy, not fast, sipped fuel, you could park if anywhere and it will be there when you return, you don't go fast uphills, your bike fits in the back with both wheels on, you need to up the idle speed if you want to use the A/C in summer or it will struggle at idle, giving people a ride who own normal cars under 5 years old will make them cringe, asking the concierge to park the Goat in a expensive hotel was always good for amusement " Don't scratch it, I will be checking :) "
It was called the Goat since it was like riding a small legged animal particularly with the stock 155 tyres. Slapping on 175's was the cheapest bang of buck upgrade you could do.

I only failed to proceed incident I had was the ECU packing it in after 20 years and the magic smoke escapes from the capacitors on the motherboard. I serviced it myself for all routine tasks and easy to do things like belt changes etc. Made simple enough to figure out.

I appreciated the hasslefreeness in hindsight and only got rid of it since the 0 star crash rating can't be wise thing plus I had the chance to upgrade while my company was still in flight and had cashflow.

Behold the mighty Goat in all of its middle of the road anonymous averageness with factory unmatched fuel filler paint.
It is pretty odd that sometimes the most imperfect things become memorable but everything has a good side but you might have to look for it.

I didn't have to walk that much. Winning.........

View attachment 360252
They were more like a Mitsubishi. I can remember the old tin tappet covers that leaked over the exhaust.
 

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
They were more like a Mitsubishi. I can remember the old tin tappet covers that leaked over the exhaust.
Apparently Hyundai purchased Mitsubishi's tooling from their previous models to get started.
The ECI Multi on the injection is the same old Mitsubishi font.


360259


So, of course bigger turbo motors from more worthy Mitsubishi's had to go in the humble shopping trolley. They almost fit in directly with minimal choppage. Here we go........ It would be riot to drive though.

360261
 

born-again-biker

Is looking for a 16" bar
Apparently Hyundai purchased Mitsubishi's tooling from their previous models to get started.
The ECI Multi on the injection is the same old Mitsubishi font.


View attachment 360259

So, of course bigger turbo motors from more worthy Mitsubishi's had to go in the humble shopping trolley. They almost fit in directly with minimal choppage. Here we go........ It would be riot to drive though.

View attachment 360261
Now that is some cheap fun right there.
 

Chriso_29er

Likes Bikes and Dirt
The ute and in particular the Maloo would have sold in much greater numbers there than here. But I heard from a GM guy in the states that they realised it would take sales away from the home grown 'trucks' and that wasn't an option.
I currently work with a couple of ex-Holden engineers and marketing peeps who worked on that project. I'm told it was the excessive US import tariffs on utility vehicles which killed it in the end, much higher than cars at the time. Also the fact that we were above parity with the USD at the time. 0.80 USD to the dollar was the magic number that killed US exports in the end.
 
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nathanm

Eats Squid
Apparently Hyundai purchased Mitsubishi's tooling from their previous models to get started.
The ECI Multi on the injection is the same old Mitsubishi font.


So, of course bigger turbo motors from more worthy Mitsubishi's had to go in the humble shopping trolley. They almost fit in directly with minimal choppage. Here we go........ It would be riot to drive though.
Proton also borrowed a lot from mitsubishi including a whole car, a Lancer CC rebadged as a Proton M21. I owned one for a while recently which i used for motorsport. Brilliant vehicle absolutely could not kill it and when like a cut cat and handled like it was on rails.

the 4g93p was also used in the proton satria gti and I think maybe the 1.5 was also used in some variants.

but i digest.
 

Mr Crudley

Glock in your sock
Proton also borrowed a lot from mitsubishi including a whole car, a Lancer CC rebadged as a Proton M21. I owned one for a while recently which i used for motorsport. Brilliant vehicle absolutely could not kill it and when like a cut cat and handled like it was on rails.

the 4g93p was also used in the proton satria gti and I think maybe the 1.5 was also used in some variants.

but i digest.
Mitsubishi hookered all of their old stuff to whoever wanted it by the look of it.
 

Haakon

has an accommodating arse
The nationalism of home made car is a big advantage IMHO, even if the parent companies were from the US. They did make some nice looking designs at times. It is pity that we didn't have a bigger market for them to gain more traction and evolve. They just couldn't move to follow market changes and offering rebadged Daewoo's if you didn't want a 4 door sedan seemed to be the way forward.

As a long term accidental early vintage Hyundai owner (I got this fine vehicle from someone else), that car was pretty reliable, not sexy, not fast, sipped fuel, you could park if anywhere and it will be there when you return, you don't go fast uphills, your bike fits in the back with both wheels on, you need to up the idle speed if you want to use the A/C in summer or it will struggle at idle, giving people a ride who own normal cars under 5 years old will make them cringe, asking the concierge to park the Goat in a expensive hotel was always good for amusement " Don't scratch it, I will be checking :) "
It was called the Goat since it was like riding a small legged animal particularly with the stock 155 tyres. Slapping on 175's was the cheapest bang of buck upgrade you could do.

I only failed to proceed incident I had was the ECU packing it in after 20 years and the magic smoke escapes from the capacitors on the motherboard. I serviced it myself for all routine tasks and easy to do things like belt changes etc. Made simple enough to figure out.

I appreciated the hasslefreeness in hindsight and only got rid of it since the 0 star crash rating can't be wise thing plus I had the chance to upgrade while my company was still in flight and had cashflow.

Behold the mighty Goat in all of its middle of the road anonymous averageness with factory unmatched fuel filler paint.
It is pretty odd that sometimes the most imperfect things become memorable but everything has a good side but you might have to look for it.

I didn't have to walk that much. Winning.........

View attachment 360252
My gran bought the earlier version of that in 1988, the base 4 speed carby model, only option was AC. That thing was as basic as they come, old Mits Colt running gear. Not fast, but it jsut went and went and went... My mum inherited it at about 15 years old and it went for another 8 or so on the horrible dirt road they live on. Only died because dad let it get low on oil and stuffed the rings. Solid and worthy car.
That was super early effort at Korean export cars and they got the build quality right prettt much straight away.
 

Asininedrivel

caviar connoisseur
I cannot understand the hate put on Hyundai and Kia, when they produce the best value for money vehicles going.
Legacy. Drive a 90s - 2000s one (discounting Mr Crudley's miracle mobile above) and the hate becomes much more justifiable. Amount of people I knew who had Getz's literally fall apart after fairly nominal mileages was disgraceful.

Having said that my last workplace had several fairly posh Kia Ceratos on the fleet and I found them really nice to drive, waaay better than the inert Corollas, which perhaps shouldn't have surprised me as much as it did.
 

nathanm

Eats Squid
Legacy. Drive a 90s - 2000s one (discounting Mr Crudley's miracle mobile above) and the hate becomes much more justifiable. Amount of people I knew who had Getz's literally fall apart after fairly nominal mileages was disgraceful.

Having said that my last workplace had several fairly posh Kia Ceratos on the fleet and I found them really nice to drive, waaay better than the inert Corollas, which perhaps shouldn't have surprised me as much as it did.
yeah very true, the early (2000's) accent and getz were very, very plastic. but for the time were also incredibly cheap, reliable motoring and set the trend from there on and forwards.

We traded a 2015 Kia Cerato for the 2018 Honda HRV and it was a mistake. the Cerato is the superior car. 130kw motor shite's all over the 1.8 honda and the build quality is far superior for a car that cost sub $20k.
 

crash3

Likes Dirt
Having said that my last workplace had several fairly posh Kia Ceratos on the fleet and I found them really nice to drive, waaay better than the inert Corollas, which perhaps shouldn't have surprised me as much as it did.
Same with the current gen Hyundai i30. I've driven a few of those and the current corollas when travelling for work, and based on that I'd 100% take the i30 any day. Lively steering, nicer buttons everywhere, better multimedia etc. The corolla was just so detached in every way in comparison.
 

FigBo0T

Puts verniers on his headtube
In short - not really. Cruze, Captiva, Barina, Malibu (yuck), Trax....none of them sold very well and they never received good press from the motoring journalists.

Commodore (Aussie built) is actually a great car (some series were better than others) - for it's design brief.
Aussies no longer want a large, powerful, affordable, reasonably reliable rear wheel drive car.
Personally I think people are wrong and stupid and the Commodore (and the later Falcons) were a better car for everyday use if you just made them with 4 cylinder engines for better mileage.
But every Tom, Dick & Sally wants a fucken' high-ride-height AWD SUV so they can tell themselves they're the "outdoorsie type".
How many SUV's actually hit dirt roads or cross shallow streams or drive across a field or around a sandy camp site?
The SUV marketing around The Great Outdoors definitely helped to kill Commodore/Falcon IMO.
But the market is the herd is the market.

By most accounts the current Colorado ute is actually a pretty good thing. They did some decent work to the ride/handling for our roads and it's got a lot of fruit for the money in the higher models......but's all about timing. It's being dragged down with the sinking ship.
I've seen studies that show the buying motivation behind SUV's and fourbies is about crash test results. Likelihood of injury and death are reduced.
 
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