Home Brew

[scblack]

Yeah absolutely.

Liquid CO2 can only turn into a gas when it can latch onto something. Hence the sandblasting in the bottom of schooner glasses, have a look next time you're in the pub. So when you put in a carbo drop there is a little tiny fizz but SFA. When you pour in Dextrose you get a massive fizz being that there are thousands of little rough edged particles for the liquid CO2 to bind onto.

Also, dextrose doesn't affect the flavour at all, I like adding a touch of sucrose to add a bit of body. Also, dextrose won't hold a head or carbonation very long, the beer tends to go flat a lot quicker. I nearly lost my Export Pilsner to this.

I'm using a mix of maltedextrin, sucrose and dextrose this time. All in differing mixes, some singular. We'll see how I go. Oh yes, I WILL definately be using bulk priming and scblack, you're more than welcome to borrow my secondary fermenter that I use for the priming if you want.

Understood, thanks for the explanation.

Thanks for the offer of the fermenter, shall see how I go, I may buy one this weekend - last weekend they had no piping left, so I didn't bother.

 

[Gonzo]

Fellows I don't think you quite understand what the priming step does. During the first stage of fermentation, the vat is sealed however you have an airlock that lets all the CO2 out. Thus the CO2 in the beer is going to be in equilibrium with the CO2 in the air. In otherwords it is completly flat. There will be no fizz when adding a sugar drop or dextrose except for a plop as you drop it in.

What priming does is you add some sugar into the bottle and as such the remainder of the yeast will munch on this and form more alcohol but more importantly it will also produce CO2. The difference between this time and last time is that the bottle is now sealed. So the CO2 that is produced cannot just escape into the air. Instead it builds up pressure in the top of the beer and then eventually gets forced to dissolve into the beer. In otherwords it makes it fizzy.

As such the level of carbonation will be the same no matter what sugar you use. Also bulk priming is also not such a good idea becasue as you release the pressure from the bulk vessel and then bottle it you will lose alot of carbonation and you will not get anymore in the bottle.

 

[johnny]

Fellows I don't think you quite understand what the priming step does. During the first stage of fermentation, the vat is sealed however you have an airlock that lets all the CO2 out. Thus the CO2 in the beer is going to be in equilibrium with the CO2 in the air. In otherwords it is completly flat. There will be no fizz when adding a sugar drop or dextrose except for a plop as you drop it in.

Sorry mate, but my experience of the bottles fizzing out of control when adding dextrose (and the guy at the homebrew shop's advice) says there's something amiss in your explination.

My bottles DID fizz out of control when adding dextrose to it. Plus bulk priming seems to be a pretty accepted practice for home brewing.

 

[Atomizer]

My bottles DID fizz out of control when adding dextrose to it. Plus bulk priming seems to be a pretty accepted practice for home brewing.

When did you add the priming sugar? Hopefully before you filled up the bottle.

 

[johnny]

Both, as soon as the beer (wort) hit the sugar it went ballistic. TBH, the dude at the shop couldn't explain it, but it's the only real explination that fits. I understand that the CO2 is kept in the sealed bottle not the fermenter. But the fact that mine DID fizz means that there HAS to have been a certain amount of liquid CO2 in the wort.

 

[Atomizer]

Both, as soon as the beer (wort) hit the sugar it went ballistic.

Johnny...that's bizarre. The only time, in 9 years of HB'ing I have had this happen is when, and I'm buggered if I know why, I added the priming sugar (I use caster sugar) to a full bottle. Yep...didn't work.

I'm fucked if I can explain that. I am chewing on the variables. There are many but none that can see me narrow it down to one cause.

This has got hairs on it. (figure of speak...relax)

Can you remember what the wort temperature was during the brewing process?

Ale or lager yeast?

 

[johnny]

It was Blackrock export pilsner. I added about 300grams extra dextrose to the primary fermentation process. It was in the fermenter for about 4 weeks. The reason it was in for so long is that it just kept on bubbling away. The bloke in the shop said don't worry about that, go on SG levels. I used Saflager yeast and the average temp during primary fermentation was 15-17 degrees. Even the bottles that fizzed ( I still capped them whilst swearing and screaming like a madman) still turned out fine. As a matter of fact, it turned out to be one of the best beers I've ever drunk. I did a few with sucrose and they were sensational! Of course these were sucrose drops, so they didn't fizz.

 

[Atomizer]

It was Blackrock export pilsner. I added about 300grams extra dextrose to the primary fermentation process. It was in the fermenter for about 4 weeks. The reason it was in for so long is that it just kept on bubbling away. The bloke in the shop said don't worry about that, go on SG levels. I used Saflager yeast and the average temp during primary fermentation was 15-17 degrees. Even the bottles that fizzed ( I still capped them whilst swearing and screaming like a madman) still turned out fine. As a matter of fact, it turned out to be one of the best beers I've ever drunk. I did a few with sucrose and they were sensational! Of course these were sucrose drops, so they didn't fizz.

All sounds good. I'll run this past The Jovial Monkey.

http://www.jovialmonk.com.au/

He'll take days to explain it, as he knows his brewing, but he'll come up with goods.

 

[Gonzo]

Sorry mate, but my experience of the bottles fizzing out of control when adding dextrose (and the guy at the homebrew shop's advice) says there's something amiss in your explination.

My bottles DID fizz out of control when adding dextrose to it. Plus bulk priming seems to be a pretty accepted practice for home brewing.

My explanation is right. I know a thing or two about yeast considering i work at a biological waste treatment plant as a process engineer so i'm not just talking out of my arse. I think you will have to look at a different explanation for why the bottles fizzed because the one you proposed just isn't right.

 

[johnny_boy]

Sticky-fy!

Sticky-fy!

Sticky for sure.... my first brew is underway and looking good after intial concern it wasn't going....HG reading down to 1200, and is sitting nicely between 19-22 degrees in my bedroom. What is better to use in the secondary priming stage (i think thats what it's called-the fermentation in the bottle), dextrose, sucrose or some normal sugar?? It's a cascade pale

 

[scblack]

Sticky for sure.... my first brew is underway and looking good after intial concern it wasn't going....HG reading down to 1200, and is sitting nicely between 19-22 degrees in my bedroom. What is better to use in the secondary priming stage (i think thats what it's called-the fermentation in the bottle), dextrose, sucrose or some normal sugar?? It's a cascade pale

For your first one just give plain white sugar the go - johnny had dextrose foaming way out of the bottle.

 

[johnny]

Sticky for sure.... my first brew is underway and looking good after intial concern it wasn't going....HG reading down to 1200, and is sitting nicely between 19-22 degrees in my bedroom. What is better to use in the secondary priming stage (i think thats what it's called-the fermentation in the bottle), dextrose, sucrose or some normal sugar?? It's a cascade pale

I'd go the pre-made carbonation drops for your first batch. Easy, clean, impossible to screw up.

Gonzo: Yeah you certainly sound like you know your shit, don't get me wrong, I do put good faith in your words. We just cannot find any other explination that could fit I guess.

 

[scblack]

Fellows I don't think you quite understand what the priming step does. During the first stage of fermentation, the vat is sealed however you have an airlock that lets all the CO2 out. Thus the CO2 in the beer is going to be in equilibrium with the CO2 in the air. In otherwords it is completly flat. There will be no fizz when adding a sugar drop or dextrose except for a plop as you drop it in.

As such the level of carbonation will be the same no matter what sugar you use. Also bulk priming is also not such a good idea becasue as you release the pressure from the bulk vessel and then bottle it you will lose alot of carbonation and you will not get anymore in the bottle.

Gonzo - question on the highlighted section. As you said in the first paragraph, the brew is in equilibrium with the air(flat), due to the airlock.

Then why is there any difference between bulk priming and priming in the bottle?

It is the sugar adding the carbonation - correct?

 

[Simo]

I'm gettin my brew kit this week or next and am in the process of chasing up some long neck bottles.
How many would I need to bottle each batch and does anyone in melbourne have the numbers of any good recycling or supply places where I can get my hands on some bottles? I'm willing to pay a 'donation' to any recycling places etc. that are asking a reasonable amount.

Cheers.

 

[scblack]

A usual batch of 23 litres will need 25-30 longnecks generally (750ml ones). depending on wastage due to checking SG, spilling on bottling etc.

 

[Gonzo]

Gonzo - question on the highlighted section. As you said in the first paragraph, the brew is in equilibrium with the air(flat), due to the airlock.

Then why is there any difference between bulk priming and priming in the bottle?

It is the sugar adding the carbonation - correct?

Yeah sorry that was my mistake. When you said bulk priming I thought you meant that you put the whole batch into a sealed container then let it sit for 2 weeks or so before bottling. Obviously this isn't right. Bulk priming where you just mix the sugar into the whole batch before bottling seems like a good idea and wish I had found out about it before.

 

[scblack]

Yeah sorry that was my mistake. When you said bulk priming I thought you meant that you put the whole batch into a sealed container then let it sit for 2 weeks or so before bottling. Obviously this isn't right. Bulk priming where you just mix the sugar into the whole batch before bottling seems like a good idea and wish I had found out about it before.

No worries, thanks Gonzo.

 

[johnny]

Yeah sorry that was my mistake. When you said bulk priming I thought you meant that you put the whole batch into a sealed container then let it sit for 2 weeks or so before bottling. Obviously this isn't right. Bulk priming where you just mix the sugar into the whole batch before bottling seems like a good idea and wish I had found out about it before.

Yeah I got myself the second tub, tubing etc. and will give it a shot soon. Will let y'all know how I go.

 

[scblack]

Yeah I got myself the second tub, tubing etc. and will give it a shot soon. Will let y'all know how I go.

I did my first bulk priming on the weekend, and stuffed it up a bit. Measured out the 190g Dextrose, put it in a ceramic bowl, to melt for putting in the second fermenter. My problem is I only JUST used enough boiled water from the kettle to reduce the dextrose from solid - I really did not melt it enough. And after bottling, about half the dextrose was left sitting in the bottom of the barrel. It had not mixed into the beer.

From now I will try: use roughly 500ml water in a pot on the stove, boil it, and REALLY melt the sugars, I mean REALLY melt. Then add to barrel before transferring the beer from the first fermenter to second.

Oh well, we live and learn.

 

[nevot]

Bulk priming is great, I brew quite a bit. last summer we had 5 fermenters going at any one time over about 3 weeks. Got out 10 or so brews in a really short time.

Got us sorted for winter with beer.

The only thing we noticed with the bulk priming is the importance of being scrupulously clean. we had some mixed results with the bulk prime as i think we did not have the second fermenter clean enough or did not get the metabisulphate out well enough.

The best results i have had with the bulk prime was using a tube to siphon in to the second fermenter. This lessens the amount of oxidisation that happens in the transfer process. The tube keeps the flow nice enough so it only has the top layer of beer exposed to the air.

something else we found was there is a steriliser, iodine something that is best for cleaning the bottles. it is no where near as harsh as the metabisulphate and its not so important that it is all out of the bottle before bottling.