Hub type gearbox

Ideate

Senior Member
Any advice on the down sides of these gear hub come gearbox combinations ?
If you're talking about an Alfine 8sp in a Zerode.. then they're damn heavy as a hub on their own. They're pretty reliable though especially if you look after it and service it. Parts a bitch though if something breaks. I had to 3D print a clutch bearing cage for my old Alfine which worked out great.. but if you don't have a 3D printer.. then what?

So downsides for me would be:

  • Heavy
  • Spare parts (and servicing if you don't know what you're doing)
 

ianganderton

Likes Dirt
I have an alfine 8 on my urban bike

As above it feels heavy in the rear wheel

The other downside is they don't feel as direct as a cassette geared bike. They are not as efficient either.

But in the right application the benefits outweigh the downsides. On my commuter it's the simplicity, quietness and lack of maintainence.

You need to pick your bike shop to get them serviced every now and then if you don't fancy doing it yourself. You will find some know what they are doing and some really don't


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

No Skid Marks

Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
Any advice on the down sides of these gear hub come gearbox combinations ?
You building your own? If loking for cheap, Nuvici 360s go for under $350 on Ebay. Same with Alfine 8s I think(not checked for some time). If money is no option and you're building, check out the Pinion gearboxes(or Effigear).

If you're talking about an Alfine 8sp in a Zerode.. then they're damn heavy as a hub on their own. They're pretty reliable though especially if you look after it and service it. Parts a bitch though if something breaks. I had to 3D print a clutch bearing cage for my old Alfine which worked out great.. but if you don't have a 3D printer.. then what?

So downsides for me would be:

  • Heavy
  • Spare parts (and servicing if you don't know what you're doing)
Yeah heavy as a hub, but in the bike the weight is centered so there's no swingarm leverage and you do subtract mech, cassette and chain guide, although you add half a chain and a tensioner.
Parts are a bitch, guessing Shimanno Australia feels that with a price close to their top mechs, there's no need to carry parts. Zerode now drills and plugs with a bolt a small hole in the shell so you can top up gearbox with oil every now and then. Ideates is a one off case that I know off with the bearing shell failing. Apart from that there's only been a few never serviced Alfines fail in Zerodes in five years here in Oz, and they lasted a couple of years at least(they were the pre oil port ones). and only one set of new sprockets as the chain is just running straight so they don't flog out easy.
There's a new Alfine 8 out now. Not sure what's changed inside. Shifter is conventional direction now though.
Oh, avoid pressure jetting the seals on them, quick way to get contaminients in and lube out.

The other downside is they don't feel as direct as a cassette geared bike. They are not as efficient either.
Yes you need to try run a high engagement rear hub to speed up engagement time. As for inefficient, not sure how much worse they are than most old used abused mechs and the bennfit of being able to shift any time without pedalling puts you in a more efficient gear more often and you dont have to pedal it through. So in fareness I think you'll find you don't waste any energy really. The whole picture needs to be painted.

I say go for it, for the much less maintenance, centralized weight, much more longevity from parts, little ongoing expense, and shift without pedaling, this bit is really cool once your brain uses it's advantages naturally.
All my bikes have some form of gearbox.
 
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No Skid Marks

Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
I was curious to the efficiency of these hubs. For the technically minded...
http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp52-2001.pdf
Based on those test would seem derailleur still around 2-3% more efficient power transmission.
Got to compare apples to apples though. That's comparing two new drivetrains no doubt. Gearboxes get more efficient with age, mechs get bent and dirty. and as I mentioned, the being able to be in a more efficient gear a lot more often and quicker. How much energy is lost coming around a blind corner and finding a hill and having to muscle up in harder gear than you'd ideally choose because there's no room to pedal through a gear change, or there's rocks, or corners etc or it's just not that big a deal to bother changing? Most gearboxes have more equal spacing between gears too. So also more efficiency to be agined there.
Those numbers are great if you're building a recumbent, but not realistic for mountain bike use.
Very interesting read though.
Gearboxes are coming, not long now that Pinion etc are doing so well and many manufacturers are jumping on board. That and Sram, Shimanno are running out of gears to add to the polished turd. Unfortunatly they'll make them lighter and premturely perishable no doubt to retain sales.
 

riderseventy7

Likes Dirt
Ideates is a one off case that I know off with the bearing shell failing. Apart from that there's only been a few never serviced Alfines fail in Zerodes in five years here in Oz, and they lasted a couple of years at least(they were the pre oil port ones).
The bearing cage in my Zerodes Alfine failed as well. I actually contacted Ideate and got him to 3D print me 2 bearing cages, one replacement and one spare (thanks again mate). And recently it experienced another problem with a loss of drive in 1st and 5th gears. It was actually last night that I got around to investigating it. I found that a little return spring had come loose from another clutch bearing.
 

No Skid Marks

Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
The bearing cage in my Zerodes Alfine failed as well. I actually contacted Ideate and got him to 3D print me 2 bearing cages, one replacement and one spare (thanks again mate). And recently it experienced another problem with a loss of drive in 1st and 5th gears. It was actually last night that I got around to investigating it. I found that a little return spring had come loose from another clutch bearing.
Oh. How long did the bearing cage last? Was the hub serviced or did you have the newer version with oil port? and did you add oil ever? Just curious so I know what's what.
 

riderseventy7

Likes Dirt
Oh. How long did the bearing cage last? Was the hub serviced or did you have the newer version with oil port? and did you add oil ever? Just curious so I know what's what.
Ideates bearing cage is still going strong. I was trying to upload a couple pics that show the one he printed and the one that affected 1st and 5th gears but my phone doesn't want to play. (Will try again shortly)

The original bearing cage lasted around 1.5 - 2 years of riding most Sunday's, way less riding than what most people are getting before services anyway. My hub hadn't been serviced or disassembled in that time, however it does have the oil port and had been given the odd squirt of ATF oil.
 

No Skid Marks

Blue Mountain Bikes Brooklyn/Lahar/Kowa/PO1NT Raci
I know the Alfines don't like tight chain tension. and jet washing the seals gets dirt and water in them. But suprised the clutch bearing race wore out on two. Bad batch maybe, unlike Shimanno though.
 

riderseventy7

Likes Dirt
I forgot about this,

I still cant get pics to load on this post, so here is a link to the pics on Photobucket.

In this first photo you can see the green bearing cage at the top that Ideate printed for me. The loss of that cage caused drive in all gears except 1st and 5th to be lost.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/Grady_1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpssma3nxl2.jpeg

And in this second photo you can see the grey bearing cage that had the return spring detach from it. That caused drive in 1st and 5th to be lost. It was a simple fix, just had to hook the spring back onto it.

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q235/Grady_1/Mobile%20Uploads/image_zpsycfgmr6d.jpeg
 
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