Kevin the Kavenz - a European adventure

yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
Does Kevin have a chain guide for the idler?
Well spotted. Kevin should do a chain guide but it’s the one thing Kavenz forgot to put in the box with the delivery :confused: . As soon as I told them they put one in the post but it’s been sitting at the Frankfurt airport for 10 days now waiting for a flight.
This will be the 5th delivery I’ve had from Germany for this build so I’m pretty used to the ‘Frankfurt limbo’ by now. I’m hoping it makes it to Melbourne this week but we’ll see.
I’m the meantime, I was really happy to find the chain stayed on perfectly during my ride yesterday. Even on some pretty hectic bumps.
 

Asininedrivel

caviar connoisseur
Great to hear the bike's start has been pretty smooth! With you on not pushing it with a weak rear brake. I'm a big fan of dad braking so that needs to work for me.
As an aside - i can’t believe how many people ride trails that are very obviously closed. Shits me no end. A whole new ’trail’ has emerged in order to get around the fence at the top of a closed trail. If there is a fence there - IT”S CLOSED!
Guessing this was the new Rock Salt track? Bunch of <redacted> just ensuring it'll be closed for longer. Anything else closed?

As an aside, I watched a video of someone riding the new track for race practice last weekend and it looks really good. Pretty long though - finishes well below Fall Line!
 

yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
Great to hear the bike's start has been pretty smooth! With you on not pushing it with a weak rear brake. I'm a big fan of dad braking so that needs to work for me.

Guessing this was the new Rock Salt track? Bunch of <redacted> just ensuring it'll be closed for longer. Anything else closed?

As an aside, I watched a video of someone riding the new track for race practice last weekend and it looks really good. Pretty long though - finishes well below Fall Line!
Spot on. New track appears to start at the same place as Rock Salt.
As I was riding up the fire road to get to fall line I saw the bottom of the new track and was pretty keen to hit it but then saw it was closed.
Hopefully shit bags don’t chew it out before it even opens.
 

yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
Turned the wick up a little today - squishy rear brake and all. Went out to Eatons and did a few laps at 8 tenths. Everything came up Milhouse and bike felt great. Still have a bit of work to do with the forks (or they still have a bit of bedding in to do…) but overall the bike was comfortable, predictable and fun. Pretty good for just my second ride out.

As a comparison I would say that the Mega was amazingly comfortable and confidence inspiring from the very first run. Then as i turned up the wick, I realised I needed to firm up the suspension and could probably add volume spacers to the fork and shock.

With the Kavenz, the shock feels AMAZING but the fork is a little harsh. As things got faster, steeper and a little more gnarly today, the fork started to make much more sense. Still only getting around 140-150mm travel on hits that were bottoming out my 170mm Zeb though so work to do… It feels great though - very well damped and under control at all times.

One thing that I need to play around with is bar height. The Mega was feeling so good that I tried to emulate it with the Kavenz and am running the bars with 25mm of spaces under to match the spacers plus headtube length of the Mega. With the bars at that height, I don't feel Iike I am riding the fork hard enough and i think that’s because the EXT stays in it’s mid stroke really well without blowing through. The Zeb tends to blow through its travel a bit which feels great in 95% of situations but bottoms out when you need just a bit more support.

The EXT is keeping me higher and I think as a result, I’m not getting as much weight on my front wheel in general riding. I’ll try lowering the bars and see if that helps.

@Asininedrivel - you’re right, fuck the noise. The suspension is great. The noise fades anyway and all you’re left with is smiles.

I’ll review some of the parts and give more details on ride ounce I get a few more km’s under my belt.
 

yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
Finally have all my parts, built my wheels and added the chain guide! New photos in the OP and as few below.

All up, she weighs in at 15.9kg. A little more than I was hoping for (I had an arbitrary aim of 15 flat) but not bad for a category 5 rated frame, coil shock and heavy duty wheels.

Looking forward to thrashing it.
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Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Finally have all my parts, built my wheels and added the chain guide! New photos in the OP and as few below.

All up, she weighs in at 15.9kg. A little more than I was hoping for (I had an arbitrary aim of 15 flat) but not bad for a category 5 rated frame, coil shock and heavy duty wheels.

Looking forward to thrashing it.
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That's pretty good for that spec.

Sent from my M2012K11AG using Tapatalk
 

yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
That's pretty good for that spec.

Sent from my M2012K11AG using Tapatalk
I’m pretty impressed with what they’ve done considering they are just a little company welding together off-the-shelf tubes (with a few cnc’d bits and pieces). Handy weight, DH level strong, straight seat-tube, water bottle in triangle - all with achieving a specific suspension kinematic they were aiming for. From what I can tell, all they compromised on was having to use a trunion mount shock which is not a bad effort (first proto used an eyelet shock).
 

yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
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Been meaning to update this thread but glad I’ve been on a few more rides before posting - a few things are starting to reveal themselves and make more sense.

I want to do a post at some stage about the overall impression of the bike, the geo, some of the frame details and buying experience but this one is going to focus on the fork… and a little on the shock.

I guess the context of this is my recent experience on both my V1 Transition Sentinel with Durolux fork and the current Nukeproof Mega with Zeb fork.

The Zeb was a surprisingly good fork (not sure why I was so surprised but my expectations were a bit low). Only took a couple of rides to ‘break in’ and was then super plush, smooth and solid. It liked to sit pretty deep in travel but it tracked ground really well and dealt with repeat hits very well also.

If I had’ve kept the bike and fork, I would have tried to maintain as much of the plushness as possible but added a bit of ramp up by using a volume spacer or two. Basically, it had a starting point of being plush, comfortable and confidence inspiring but needed more progression for the bigger hits or it would bottom out.

The Zeb was the Select+ version with just air pressure, low speed rebound and low speed compression to adjust. It was a simple fork to set up and factory recommendations were close to spot on from the jump.

The EXT has been a very different experience but is now starting to show what it’s capable of and proving to be an excellent fork.

It’s taken a bit longer to ‘break in’ and that was probably complicated or confused for me by the factory recommended setting being way off. This is a common finding it turns out and seems to vary based on rider weight.

The other complicating issue is that the fork is much more adjustable than the Zeb and each setting impacts other settings. It’s more difficult to isolate one thing and work on it. The pay off is a really well tuned fork that can suit a wide range of preferences but it takes time and tinkering to unlock.

For example, there is a main air chamber and a ramp up chamber. Obviously lowering the ramp up chamber allows the fork to use more travel on big hits but it also means the main chamber will equalise with the ramp up chamber sooner into the stroke creating a firmer spring all the way through.

If you lower the main chamber and keep the ramp chamber much higher pressure then you will get a super plush initial stroke with a sharp ramp up later as the fork has to compress a long way before the main chamber reaches the same pressure as the ramp up chamber and starts to compress it…

Then you have both high and low speed compression to play with and they both make tangible changes to the feel of the fork.

From the start, the EXT always felt well controlled and very consistently damped, it was just too harsh.

I’m not sure how much of that feeling was due to it needing to ‘break in’, how much was the spring being too firm and how much was the damping being too firm but it is now MUCH better and is feeling a great combination of buttery smooth but really controlled. I haven’t really had a fork this controlled before and I’m not sure how to explain it except that you always have confidence it will respond with even and well measured damping no matter where it is in it’s stroke. It recovers quickly and mages successive hits really well too.

The factory recommended settings were 55psi in the main chamber, 85psi in the ramp up and both high and low speed compression set just 8 clicks (of 15) from fully closed. Rebound was set mostly open (about 14 clicks of 20 from closed).

I probably have a little fine tuning to do but at this point have ended up opening up the high speed compression by 3 clicks and the low speed by 4. I’ve dropped pressure to 50psi in the main chamber and 72psi in the ramp up.

It’s feeling really good and even though I have dropped pressure significantly and opened up the damping a lot, I’m still only using just over 150mm (of 170mm) on terrain that I bottomed the Zeb on.

To be honest, it feels about right to be keeping 10-15mm up my sleeve on the terrain I was on so setting are feeling very close to right.

So that’s the fork - what about the shock? It’s awesome. Been awesome straight out the gate with factory recommended settings and I love it.

Sag is in the right range with the spring Kavenz sent me with it based on my weight and it seems to be using a good amount of travel though it’s hard to tell how much with a coil. No o-ring to check at the end of a ride.

There is a hydraulic bottom out feature that ramps up the force required over the last 15mm of travel but I’ve never felt it so it mustn’t be too intrusive. Or I haven’t used that much travel but I reckon I would have.

EXT springy bits are really expensive in Australia and basically the only way they were affordable to me was through the package deal I got with Kavenz (and part of the reason why I chose this frame). Not sure I could ever justify the price if paying full retail with savings (rather than insurance payout) but they really do feel pretty special. In the words of Ferris Bueller, “If you have the means, I highly recommend picking yourself up one.”
 
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yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
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As per my previous reports, I’ve got the fork set up well now and everything is settled in so time for a more fulsome ride report.

First a little context - this is my only bike so it needs to do everything ‘well enough’. My focus in definitely on the downs and I enjoy doing shuttles at places like Mt Buller and Bright so basically, as long as the bike rips on the chunky down hills, I can put up with it feeling a little bored on the more mellow trails.

That said, the more fun it is in every situation the better right?

I took a bit of a chance on a plucky young German because it seemed a good chance to offer what I was after. As I’ve mentioned before, the Sentinel fit me perfectly and the geo was great. The Mega was VERY similar in fit and geo and I was instantly comfortable on it and having fun.

So with insurance money burning a hole in my pocket and numerous options calling my name, I took a punt on the Kavenz as it has very similar sizing and geo in all the key areas. Reach is 500 (Sentinel 500 and Mega 495), stack is 652 (635/648), head angle 64 degrees (64/64) and effective seat tube angle 77.5 degrees (75.8/78).

One measurement that is a little different is the chainstay. At first glance the Kavenz seems ultra short at 425mm. But thanks to the high pivot, that grows to 436mm at sag and keeps going to about 440mm two-thirds of the way into its travel (dynamic sag) before coming back to about 436mm again at full compression.

For comparison, the Sentinel is 435mm and the Mega 440mm. Both frames would have very little growth to sag (just a couple of mm) then move in a steady arc or come back a little to shorten the chain stay.

All three bikes use a Horst link suspension design but the Kavenz goes for a mid-high pivot that promises very good anti-squat and a good, consistent level of anti-rise. All sounds good in theory but marketing is the devil’s work and it can all come unstuck in the real world.

The good news is - it lives up to the hype. It’s not all perfect and I’ll get to that but for now, and without hyperbole, I’ll say that the Kavenz pedals even better than I could have hoped, delivers a supportive but deep feeling rear end and in the few rides I’ve had on a steep and technical trail, the rear maintained the ability to brake and absorb obstacles giving good grip all the way. Seems like the design goals were achieved.

A lot of the great ‘feel’ on this bike is achieved by the excellent EXT suspension. I’ve gone on enough about both the fork and the shock so I wont say much more here.

What I will say though is it’s hard to tell where the effect of the high pivot and rearward axle path stop and where the suspension begins. It’s a little like eating a great chicken parmigiana. It’s not just the chicken OR the toppings that make it great - it’s a combination of the two. The high pivot and EXT coil combo is a damn tasty parma.

While the on-paper short chainstays actually end up being very similar to the Sentinel and the Mega, one area that is proving to make a very real change in character and feel is the ‘actual’ seat angle. The Kavenz has an effective angle of 77.5 and an actual angle of 75.5. The Mega is 78 effective but that drops to an actual angle of 71.5. The Sentinel didn’t list the actual angle but given it was 75.5 effective and has similar kink in the seat tube as the mega, I’m guessing it dips just below 70 degree actual.

I’m a tall rider and therefore running a fair bit of post so the actual seat tube angle has a pretty big impact when I’m at full extension and climbing.

The result is interesting. In general I would say it contributes to the Kavenz climbing better than the other bikes but it also makes the cockpit a little shorter than I anticipated and can be almost uncomfortable when riding bike paths/flat terrain.

I’ve had to get my head around it a bit and have gone from a 35mm stem to a 40mm. I’ll end up at 45mm (Giacomo from Kavenz/77-designs is a champ and helped me out to go from 35mm to 45mm on one of his very sexy one-piece stems).

I also swapped out the kinda hard and narrow 77 Designz grips for some thicker and softer Deathgrips. The combined changes feel more comfortable on flatter trails but it’s still not quite as comfy as where I was at on the other bikes.

The pay off comes one you start heading up a climb as it seems to keep weight on the front wheel better and the combination of geo and rear suspension kinematics makes pretty light work of awkward tight switchbacks. So far it’s a change and a compromise that seems to have more positives than negatives. I’m not even using lock out on the shock.

In terms of frame details, it’s pretty sorted for a first attempt by a small company. I’m not a huge fan of internal routing for the rear brake and even less a fan of routing it through the chain stays. That said, it was pretty easy to run through the frame and once it’s in there I hopefully won’t have to mess with it again.

The idler is pretty easy to set up with the provided spacers and the chain guide is also easy and is a nice and neat solution.

I’ll be interested to see if the routing of the cables into the side of the headtube causes any rubbing on the steerer. If it does, I’ll just put some frame protection tape on the steerer.

Frame alignment was absolutely perfect and the shock slipped in beautifully. All the pivots are smooth and helping the suspension feel buttery.

Things that could be improved? As much as I love the colour, the application of the powder coat isn’t amazing. It doesn’t get a clear coat on it so it seems to mark and scratch easily. I’ve ended up adding gloss frame protection to about 90% of the frame.

The width of the chainstays is pretty chunky too and on the non-drive side in particular, I’m finding I clip my heel on the frame a bit. Not really a problem but I’ve had to put some frame protection on there too - otherwise I would have worn the paint off already I reckon.

There are some really nice touches like the consistent single bearing size used throughout all pivots and the use of only two standards for all bolts and fittings - a t25 Torx or 6mm hex. I think I’ve mentioned it before but the added bonus is that the rear axle level can detach and be used as both a t25 or 6mm hex tool. Smart move.

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So far it is definitely meeting the brief as one bike to rule them all. In fact, it’s working so well that now it is time to mess with it and see if I can fuck it up by going mullet. Looking forward to that change magically giving me the skills of Phil Atwill so I can slap these turns like nobody’s business

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yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
Wait wait wait. Is that what the bottom of Shit Tickets looks like now?
No - it comes into Flow Trail. Or is flow trail... I only found it the other day so not sure how long it's been around but seemed reasonably fresh and delicious.

There is a steep rack garden about halfway down Flow and if you keep very left at the bottom, you hit these corners followed but a mid sized step down into another berm then link back in to Flow trail just before 50+ beaches off.

Hope that makes sense. I lose track of all the little options and what they are called.
 

yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
Yeah you lost me at Flow Trail. In my head they are all "left-left-left-right", "left-right-right-left", "straight-right-left-left" etc :D Looks like a great few corners, will try to get down there next week, has been a while!
The corners in the photo are definitely 'Hit the 20, drop into the massive washed out chute, go left-left-left as you can, smash your chainring on rocks, go left again' and there you are. Sweet berms.
I have never, ever managed to make it down Eatons the same way twice. Last time I was there I found an absolutely epic roller coaster of a track (might've been "straight-right-left-left" as per @leitch's directions above?)
I hear people at the top saying 'let's go new-old into rampage then waterfall and if you're up to it we can backflip Armageddon*'. I have no idea what anything is except shit tickets and flow trail. Not even sure what I call flow trail is really flow trail...

*I made up half those names but I think some are real
 

yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
It’s been a minute so here’s a bit of an update…

Went mullet for shits and giggles. Such an easy swap - undo lower shock mount bolt, undo two bolts that attach shock mount to frame, bolt on mullet shock mount, bolt up shock. Takes about the same time to change the rear wheel.

Geometry is maintained. And to be honest there wasn’t a huge change in character of the bike. I’m fact, I’d be hard pressed to pick it on a blind test.

The one impact was that I found myself pitching forward off the first few jumps I hit. It was a bit strange and I’m not entirely sure it wasn’t me just riding a bit shit. That said, it was a pretty consistent feeling and something I hadn’t encountered before.

I slowed the rebound on the shock one click and it’s jumping like a champ now. Might be that I’m more used to it and have compensated or something. Who knows.

Been running mullet for a while now and will go back to full 29 soon and see if I notice any difference the other way.

The other change I just made this week is to go to an air shock to see how I like it. It’s a fox dpx2 I picked up cheap.

I love the EXT coil so can’t see me making the swap permanent but want to know how it compares. First little test ride included some knee high jumps at the local park.

Shock actually feels somehow ‘soggier’ than the coil as it sinks into the mid stroke a little too easy. I wouldn’t describe it as having any more ‘pop’ than the coil and it definitely ramped up more harshly on landing.

Not hugely impressed but I’ll take it to Cascade on Friday and see how it goes in the wild. Coming off the EXT, I have a feeling anything is going to feel a little sub-par.
 

yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
Bit of an update on the mullet and air shock after riding Cascade…

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I’ve ridden Cascade with the bike set up mullet a few weeks back but this time felt a bit better. I think there was a touch more grip and i was consciously trying to ride a bit more aggressively and tip it in harder to the berms. Any difference in character I felt was marginal but with the mullet and the air shock there were a couple of things i was feeling.

In the steeper sections that are a bit slower, it meant my back wheel was ‘cutting’ into the turns a bit harder and helping the back come around. I’m not great at riding steep berms so it would be felt more by someone with better skills but I definitely felt the benefit this time as opposed to last time I rode the trails and would have been hard pressed to tell the difference between 29 back end or mullet.

As mentioned in the previous post, the DPX2 actually feels a little ‘soggier’ than the EXT coil and a touch over damped on slow and teach sections. It sinks into midstroke more easily than the coil and i clipped more pedals than usual. But then it changes character for the final third of travel and ramps up more noticeably than the coil so on the lower faster sections of Cascade with deep berms and jump, it provides a really nice platforms to pump against.

It’s been really interesting to try the bike as full 29 with coil, mullet with coil and mullet with air. I have come away pretty impressed with the frame and geo because i feel like it’s so well sorted that changes to things like wheel size and air/coil shock end up being more about seasoning the recipe to appeal the different tastes rather than delivering a completely different meal.

I’ll go back to full 29 and coil soon as I think it will suit trails that are fast and chunky better (like Mt Buller) while mullet suits steep and air suits bike park type trails that are fast, reasonably smooth with berms and jumps.

Nice to have such an adjustable bike to play with!

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beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Bit of an update on the mullet and air shock after riding Cascade…

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I’ve ridden Cascade with the bike set up mullet a few weeks back but this time felt a bit better. I think there was a touch more grip and i was consciously trying to ride a bit more aggressively and tip it in harder to the berms. Any difference in character I felt was marginal but with the mullet and the air shock there were a couple of things i was feeling.

In the steeper sections that are a bit slower, it meant my back wheel was ‘cutting’ into the turns a bit harder and helping the back come around. I’m not great at riding steep berms so it would be felt more by someone with better skills but I definitely felt the benefit this time as opposed to last time I rode the trails and would have been hard pressed to tell the difference between 29 back end or mullet.

As mentioned in the previous post, the DPX2 actually feels a little ‘soggier’ than the EXT coil and a touch over damped on slow and teach sections. It sinks into midstroke more easily than the coil and i clipped more pedals than usual. But then it changes character for the final third of travel and ramps up more noticeably than the coil so on the lower faster sections of Cascade with deep berms and jump, it provides a really nice platforms to pump against.

It’s been really interesting to try the bike as full 29 with coil, mullet with coil and mullet with air. I have come away pretty impressed with the frame and geo because i feel like it’s so well sorted that changes to things like wheel size and air/coil shock end up being more about seasoning the recipe to appeal the different tastes rather than delivering a completely different meal.

I’ll go back to full 29 and coil soon as I think it will suit trails that are fast and chunky better (like Mt Buller) while mullet suits steep and air suits bike park type trails that are fast, reasonably smooth with berms and jumps.

Nice to have such an adjustable bike to play with!

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Have you played around with the Storia's HBO adjustment when you have it installed? Sounds like you might get a best of both worlds - more support and better ground tracking in the midstroke, but add in that deep-travel support...
 
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