Mtnx State Champs This Sunday!!

[Mr Sheen]

. It isn't a track dominated by hugh jumps or crappy b lines. It has lots of lines and makes for close racing right until the finish line, which keeps the riders wanting to race and the crowds interested. This idea of big jumps and being punished with slow b lines is heading 4X in the wrong direction as there is nothing worse for the crowd and the riders to have the race decided by the 2nd jump which appears to be what is happening at most tracks that we have attended lately.
.

I agree. 4x shouldt be about A or B lines but rather a variety of lines that are equally fast if riden well , but using different strengths allowing riders to pick the line that most suits there riding style so that passing is encouraged right to the finish .

 

[sammydog]

I always thought the top 2/3rds of the Black Hill trail was pretty bloody good as far as racing went. Lots of lines, faster to jump, but not the end of your race if you didn't.

Racing was always close as well.

 

[Musgrove]

Track design is an interesting topic as the UCI rules for track requirements for 4X are heading in the opposite direction to what we are doing in Australia with the current trend of the last few tracks built. UCI requires a one line track with tolerance for inside or alternate lines. The NZ worlds track is technically a correct track although very big. The idea of A and B lines is not supported rather if alternate lines are available the resultant of riding either line should be the same, ie the inside line is shorter but slower while the outside line is faster and longer.
It is possible the Stromlo track will require some changes before the world cup in 08 and worlds in 09 to conform to these rules.
The decision in Australia to move from 4X to MTNX was initially based on running motos for qualifying not seeding runs as in 4X. This gave more racing and provided more interest. In NSW we now seem to be moving the tracks further away from the international standard.

Jeff not Max

 

[thecat]

Ie, the future of 4x or mtnx, is pretty bleak. At the moment its the poorer cousin of DH, and with the new huckflipping contests, it is now third in the chain of gravity events.

At the moment I think it's a bit like track cycling, ie it's great to watch and makes good TV but no one actually rides it......

 

[Sarsha]

Organisation

Randal & I are from Brisbane and we are the guys that flew down from Brissy for the race.
To be honest we were not going to come down as we didn't want to risk booking our flights and accommodation just in case the race was cancelled again. This happened to us in Sydney (we had booked for our whole family to come and race and then it was cancelled... so we had to come to Sydney and not race at all.) The same thing with Newcastle, we were about to book and at the last minute thought we had better check if they hadn't cancelled it again.
In terms of where the track is located, I think you have to be happy that you have these tracks everywhere throughout Sydney. In Brisbane we have none, therefor cannot run a MTNX Series. So we are very appreciate to being able to race these NSW Series.

 

[oldbean]

Thanks everyone for your feedback. It's good to hear what everyone is thinking about it.

Some of the points raised are things we can work on, but other things are a little bit out of our hands. We will be doing our best to overcome the barriers for the remaining rounds of this year as well as for next years series.

I think that the tracks still to be used this year are such that everyone can have good racing on them. The Goulburn track produced great racing last year, without any really massive jumps. And in my opinion, Sydney Olympic Park, despite all the bagging of it, also gives great racing.

Keep posting up your ideas and thoughts, and we'll see what we can do. Otherwise, see you in Goulburn on August 19th!

 

[BOBCATZZ]

I've already made my points clear to NSWMTB. Without reposting that email, there are basically four main issues.

Firstly, the communication with racers as to what is going on is a big issue. So far there have been two rounds on schedule, with the rest being cancelled, postponed (indefinately?) and not announced. James did a pretty good summary below, so I think this point can end here.



Secondly, I don't think the races have been that well organised, giving people a pretty bad taste of racing. No one wants to spend hours sitting around waiting for racing to start, or results to be added up. On top of that, there always seems to be bad choices made in regards to finals (ie the combination of categories despite having enough to run a moto/final for each group). It seems that racing could be far better organised, which would impress the participants to no end. And if they're happy, they'll come back. Hence why we're at this stage.

In addition, (and probably the biggest issue here, ) are the tracks. I've already ranted on this before, but in a nutshell, the tracks suck nuts. I understand how hard it is to get land, but when the tracks are as dissapointing as they are, no one is going to be stoked to ride them. Sure, you can go nuts and put in big jumps, but that doesn't make for good racing. Tracks can be changed, and this might bring people back.

Finally, despite what has been said before, the future of 4x or mtnx, is pretty bleak. At the moment its the poorer cousin of DH, and with the new huckflipping contests, it is now third in the chain of gravity events. On a national scale the numbers seem to be diminishing, even through to the global world cup level. Maybe the crystal ball gazers were wrong, it might not be the discipline worth pursueing.

Just a thought anyway.

Ido agree daver with the on again of again issue it sux and advertising it on the forum does not seem to work as it easly gets buried.
On the track issue maybe u can tell us how to make them better as they all suck.
I dont know about the crystal ball thing 4x seems to work for bmxers as they love banging bars and are use to close racing some dhrs love it some hate it some guys have the best of every thing and dont know how to ride it and some big talkers hate getting shown up by 12yo kids and others do it for a fun challenge i supose thats just how it is .
I guess what we need is constructive critasism and ideas not bagging and i think if any one is prepared to bag then they must have a better ideas or are willing to give up some of there time to help promote /run /organize as this is the only way to keep it going in all forms.
To all those people that helped organise and run kurrajong pat your selves on the back as it was one of the smoothest events in 4x i have seen in a while AND YOU GUYS ARE TRULLEY WHAT MAKES THIS SPORT .
CONGRATS ON A TOP EFFORT

 

[steel-o]

track style

I agree. 4x shouldt be about A or B lines but rather a variety of lines that are equally fast if riden well , but using different strengths allowing riders to pick the line that most suits there riding style so that passing is encouraged right to the finish .


I totally agree did anyone see any overtaking after the first corner??? it turn into a procession weather you were doing a or b line.

the skill of riding fast is how fast you can get round a corner, huge jumps are for circus stunts for the crowd pleasersif you ask me. If you talk to some of the worlds best riders they are all about keeping you wheels in contact with the ground have youu ever seen Steve Peat in the Air ??? you have most . I don't mind getting air but is a 10m double really necessary is what 4x is all about??/

 

[BOBCATZZ]

I agree. 4x shouldt be about A or B lines but rather a variety of lines that are equally fast if riden well , but using different strengths allowing riders to pick the line that most suits there riding style so that passing is encouraged right to the finish .


I totally agree did anyone see any overtaking after the first corner??? it turn into a procession weather you were doing a or b line.

the skill of riding fast is how fast you can get round a corner, huge jumps are for circus stunts for the crowd pleasersif you ask me. If you talk to some of the worlds best riders they are all about keeping you wheels in contact with the ground have youu ever seen Steve Peat in the Air ??? you have most . I don't mind getting air but is a 10m double really necessary is what 4x is all about??/ [/Q its actualy 11.5 m .
The problem i see is a track like homebush sucks aparently the jumps are small with a split straight yet a lot are struggling to jump 3.5 mtrs or pump the rythem so what do you do make all the tracks for ants .Kids rode kurrajong is that because they are some genetic freak or they have 5ooo dollar 4x bikes NO its because they love to ride and see any thing to hard as a challenge so they train practice live on there bikes and have fun.Do you think guys like a teenage Nathen Rennie etc rode that fast corner and big gap of a local track fell of jumped on farkin said it was to hard so racing that track sucked NO they went around that corner and of that drop till they nailed the shit then looked for somthing harder.
My belief is that when ever you build a new track or change an existing track you should add new challenges make it differant and step it up and if that makes it harder than the last track so be it .The only way to produce better riders and make racing more fun is to do this .Also they were not dirt jumps they were mtx jumps there is a difference.

P.S NEXT TRACK WE WANT TO CRACK 15 MTRS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sammydog]

I think what people are saying is that if a race is won or lost completely on jumping ability and nothing else, then whats the point.

If that turns people away from the racing, then it may be something that needs to be addressed.

I agree. 4x shouldt be about A or B lines but rather a variety of lines that are equally fast if riden well , but using different strengths allowing riders to pick the line that most suits there riding style so that passing is encouraged right to the finish .

That is what I think a good track should be like. that doesn't mean the trail should be easy or the jumps small, but a race shouldn't be won or lost on the back of one skill. A lot of new people to the sport won't bother to travel to race, knowing that a 15m jump is unattainable to them and they have no chance of being competative.

 

[scblack]

[

P.S NEXT TRACK WE WANT TO CRACK 15 MTRS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In that case get used to smaller numbers.

This thread has been put up to ask why numbers were low. SEVERAL people have commented on the size of the last jump.

Have jumps by all means, but the EXTREME DUDE nature of this bit has people staying away.

I suppose you can then ignore the constructive criticism at your own peril.

 

[BOBCATZZ]

I think what people are saying is that if a race is won or lost completely on jumping ability and nothing else, then whats the point.

If that turns people away from the racing, then it may be something that needs to be addressed.



That is what I think a good track should be like. that doesn't mean the trail should be easy or the jumps small, but a race shouldn't be won or lost on the back of one skill. A lot of new people to the sport won't bother to travel to race, knowing that a 15m jump is unattainable to them and they have no chance of being competative.

As posted earlier the track was restricted to a skinny section of land and putting more corners was not much of an option.

 

[BOBCATZZ]

In that case get used to smaller numbers.

This thread has been put up to ask why numbers were low. SEVERAL people have commented on the size of the last jump.

Have jumps by all means, but the EXTREME DUDE nature of this bit has people staying away.

I suppose you can then ignore the constructive criticism at your own peril.

nah cool i also gave some constructive critasism if i rode it it would have been Blines for me to so next down hill i will arc about the b line through the rock garden or drop that it should be as fast cool.
Do i see you about that

 

[G-Man]

Just Freekin race / Quit nay saying

but in a nutshell, the tracks suck nuts.

Dude - Cmmon ..

You havent even been to Kurrajong Daver - and by the way you would have gone well ..

it's a fast track for those with controle on or above the ground ..

Dont bag it if you havent even ridden it bruva - and you aint been there ,,
as we the Pylet crew have been building and organising the whole time and
no Daver to be seen - to tell you the truth we were all looking for you at this
one as we think you may have gone well on the thing ..

Nuff said - now Come and check it out - and Enjoy the bloody thing ..

If you dont Enjoy - then cane the track - Not b-4 buddy , Cmmon we are
trying to do something in the game at least ,, which is mor than i can say for Some organizations - Cough , splutter "CA" for one - dont blame me i'm still dirty about Foxy and the worlds team ....

My cents - however many

G-man outy

P.S. Any hoo - For those that havent seen it all - Picks are going up now in the NSW race
pics forum - Sorry Pyley it took to long for me to load them onto our site - we
spoke about it today ..

 

[barnesy]

I am going to assume that the comments that the Kurrajong track relied too heavily on the skill of jumping alone are coming from people that haven't ridden the track (the 12 yr olds were jumping the A line 2nd last jump and 13 yr olds jumping the last jump). Why ? because they ride, and they obviously understand the shapes of jumps. I have broken down the basic skills you would have liked to have possessed for this track. Jumping was only one of the many skills...

-first straight skill : acceleration/pedalling RPM, -1/2nd corner skill: off camber cornering /ability to drift, -2nd straight step down skill: staying low on jumps, -2nd straight drop skill : bike balance/immediate & proper use of brakes, -grass off camber dog leg skill : off camber turning/braking/bike balance, -3rd straight triple skill: pre jumping/ability to pump them pop a short jump/manualling/catching down ramps to maintain speed, -3rd straight double skill: linking jumps/assessing jumps/jumping itself (this jump was 6m and felt like 3m), low single to drop skill : pumping and set up for corner (drop landed in turn), 4th descending straight with 2 x small drops skill : bike balance/high speed/braking, 120 right sweeper skill : cornering/braking ('better braking' if you wanted the inside line), 5th straight rhthym skill : pumping/manualling/ or short jump whilst maintaining speed, A/B line double & 'S' berms skills : pedalling to a jump/assessing a jump/ cornering if you took the b-line (this jump was 7m but that didn't seem to bother the 12 yr olds that jumped it all day - last 11m jump skill : bike balance & jumping ( it WAS 9 metres I have the broken leg to prove that this distance was way too short ).

Rule #1 : Don't comment on a track or a feature unless YOU have ridden it.
Rule #2 : Basic skills for MTNX : Gatestart(snap), ability to pedal at high RPM, manualling, pumping, jumping, cornering smooth & fast, good braking. Don't blame your inadequacies on a track. Practice, get the skills, then come back. Hint : if you have had broken bones then you have an excuse for having a high number of posts on farkin, if not you should be riding not typing.

It was only $30 on the weekend, cheapest State Champs I've been to in ages and the prizes were awesome!!
It wasn't publicised enough, that's the biggest problem. Other problem, MTNX racing is in front of everyone and puts your skills on display. If you suck everyone is going to know. So ...get better!!
Also just like to say that the best racing was the junior ranks (U13,15,17,19), we've got some real talent coming up. Hey maybe the 12-13yr olds could start running coaching clinics for some of the farkiners!!

 

[BOBCATZZ]

Other problem, MTNX racing is in front of everyone and puts your skills on display. If you suck everyone is going to know. So ...get better!!

HAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY BUT IN A NICER WAY.
MAYBE WE SHOULD CHANGE IT FROM FARKIN FORUMS TO PEAHEART BUT I HAVE A FULL FACTORY BEDROOM BIKE FORUMS.
And word to Gman learn some skills factory Daver .Hey G MAN 15 mtrs with a big ass roller in front to add an extra 6 next track

 

[scblack]

Other problem, MTNX racing is in front of everyone and puts your skills on display. If you suck everyone is going to know. So ...get better!!

HAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO SAY BUT IN A NICER WAY.
MAYBE WE SHOULD CHANGE IT FROM FARKIN FORUMS TO PEAHEART BUT I HAVE A FULL FACTORY BEDROOM BIKE FORUMS.
And word to Gman learn some skills factory Daver .

Does anyone wonder why numbers are down for 4X with people who make foolish comments like this running the show?

I missed the race due to illness, but you are calling all people who missed the race a peaheart.

What a way to win friends and influence people.
You are starting to sound like a 12year old beating his little chest.

 

[BOBCATZZ]

I am going to assume that the comments that the Kurrajong track relied too heavily on the skill of jumping alone are coming from people that haven't ridden the track (the 12 yr olds were jumping the A line 2nd last jump and 13 yr olds jumping the last jump). Why ? because they ride, and they obviously understand the shapes of jumps. I have broken down the basic skills you would have liked to have possessed for this track. Jumping was only one of the many skills...

-first straight skill : acceleration/pedalling RPM, -1/2nd corner skill: off camber cornering /ability to drift, -2nd straight step down skill: staying low on jumps, -2nd straight drop skill : bike balance/immediate & proper use of brakes, -grass off camber dog leg skill : off camber turning/braking/bike balance, -3rd straight triple skill: pre jumping/ability to pump them pop a short jump/manualling/catching down ramps to maintain speed, -3rd straight double skill: linking jumps/assessing jumps/jumping itself (this jump was 6m and felt like 3m), low single to drop skill : pumping and set up for corner (drop landed in turn), 4th descending straight with 2 x small drops skill : bike balance/high speed/braking, 120 right sweeper skill : cornering/braking ('better braking' if you wanted the inside line), 5th straight rhthym skill : pumping/manualling/ or short jump whilst maintaining speed, A/B line double & 'S' berms skills : pedalling to a jump/assessing a jump/ cornering if you took the b-line (this jump was 7m but that didn't seem to bother the 12 yr olds that jumped it all day - last 11m jump skill : bike balance & jumping ( it WAS 9 metres I have the broken leg to prove that this distance was way too short ).

Rule #1 : Don't comment on a track or a feature unless YOU have ridden it.
Rule #2 : Basic skills for MTNX : Gatestart(snap), ability to pedal at high RPM, manualling, pumping, jumping, cornering smooth & fast, good braking. Don't blame your inadequacies on a track. Practice, get the skills, then come back. Hint : if you have had broken bones then you have an excuse for having a high number of posts on farkin, if not you should be riding not typing.

It was only $30 on the weekend, cheapest State Champs I've been to in ages and the prizes were awesome!!
It wasn't publicised enough, that's the biggest problem. Other problem, MTNX racing is in front of everyone and puts your skills on display. If you suck everyone is going to know. So ...get better!!
Also just like to say that the best racing was the junior ranks (U13,15,17,19), we've got some real talent coming up. Hey maybe the 12-13yr olds could start running coaching clinics for some of the farkiners!!

Does anyone wonder why numbers are down for 4X with people who make foolish comments like this running the show?

I missed the race due to illness, but you are calling all people who missed the race a peaheart.

What a way to win friends and influence people.
You are starting to sound like a 12year old beating his little chest.

ALL WINGERS THAT IS

 

[Daver]

OK. If the attitudes of Barnsey and BOBCATZZZ are anything to go by, i think mtnx is dead, for me. I hope that in the future you could take a leaf out of the MV designs book and get some rider feedback before you build another woeful track.

I'm not going to race another event that you guys are involved in, and I will do my best to spread the influence, among friends, team mates and customers. If that's the only way to get the message to you, so be it- we'll vote with our feet and leave.

One less rider.

And soon to be many more...

 

[Squidly Didly]

Well here's my feedback.

Every race is going to have organisational issues but I won't gripe about this because we're only human. What I will target first though is the tracks. Now this is not a Barnesy vs Jacobs post, BUT a huge problem with the tracks being built of late is that they are designed as "fun" tracks and not "race" tracks. Now think about that for a second.

Olympic Park and Thredbo's MtnX tracks are perfect examples of this fun/race deal, and yes I have ridden/raced both tracks in question.

* Thredbo's track was boring as to ride, but the racing was awesome. You could take every inside line and hit all the jumps, or you could take every berm and still come out the same speed the whole way down the track. It then had the occasional middle line which could be in the form of a smaller berm, or flat turn. No one line was faster than the other as it depended on the riders skills. This kind of track suited a lot of different styles. Yes?

* Olympic Park's track was boring as to race in my opinion BUT I enjoyed riding it. I even made the effort on some non-race weekends to go out and have a play, but I will probably never race on it again.

The point I'm making here is are we building these tracks for people to come ride on the weekends, or are we building them for races because there's a big difference.

Another thing we need to work on is how we market a race. If I were to talk about the State DH Final being held on the scariest race track ever constructed in Australia, this would turn a lot of newcomers off will it not. Luckily DH is strong enough to survive a round without the newbies, but MtnX is far from this level and you guys really need to work on the image of the sport.

An example of this is the photos and videos you share here on Farkin or YouTube. When I saw the huge jumps and the rescue helicopter being flown in for a race with such a small turnout, that turns a beginner rider like me away from your event.

Lets get these 2 things sorted out first as they are the one's contributing to your lack of turnout far more than the other issues raised. Until these things are addressed properly, people like myself are only going to turn up for the occasional punt once or twice a year, if that.