National Parks trail access: Have your say

pi11wizard

Likes Dirt
https://mountainbiking.discussions.nsw.gov.au/

NPWS in NSW are calling for submissions from mountain bikers on trail access. Its a chance for every mountain biker to let NPWS know how important trail access is to all riders and I feel that we should make every effort to take advantage of this opportunity.

It took me about 10 minutes to respond to the questions and while the answers already provided by other submissions have covered every conceivable scenario, the number of respondents is also an important part of process.

So lets present a united front to NPWS so they get a true feeling for the popularity of this sport and encourage them to include mountain bike facilities in future planning.
 

Stevob

Likes Bikes and Dirt
Get reading peeps. I am, and I'm not even in NSW. Great to see discussion of the issues.
 
just stuck my 20 cents worth in, all points already raised , i agree its a numbers thing everyone get into it and lets get the facilities and trails we all desire and pay taxes to build
 

crank1979

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I put my comments in yesterday.

This has already had more comments than the NSW BikePlan paper!
 

abevern

Likes Dirt
Ditto

C'mon peoples, there's only 200 comments. Don't you have an opinion?

as an aside, I noticed a lot more people volunteering to help build the trails than actual turn up at maintenance days.. why is that? :confused:
 

Jackstack

Likes Dirt
C'mon peoples, there's only 200 comments. Don't you have an opinion?

as an aside, I noticed a lot more people volunteering to help build the trails than actual turn up at maintenance days.. why is that? :confused:
You raise a good point there abevern, and its probably a combination of things but sometimes it's not an unwillingness to participate but too many things to do and not enough time blah blah blah, don't want to sound like I'm putting forward excuses. For some folk I think if there was an option to do unsupervised maintenance (obviously to strict guidelines) at their convenience you could increase participation in maintenance.
Also advertising, for example the RNP maintenance days that you are obviously involved in, if it wasn't for this Forum I certainly wouldn't know about them and I know people who ride up there regularly that have no knowledge of the Maintenance days. Maybe it is advertised on the trails up there, not sure, I've only ridden there probably 2-3 times and a couple of them were at night. Anyway just my thoughts.

And I put my comments in the other day.
 

J@se

Breezeway Bandit
I may get a hammering but I must say this.

I can't walk 5 feet into the bush in the Sydney region without tripping over a legal XC trail. Lets list some shall we?

1. Manly Dam,
2. Appin,
3. Loftus,
4. Mt Annan,
5. Yellomundee,
6. Ourimbah,
7. Awaba.

How many legal DH tracks are there in the Sydney region?

1. Awaba (Hunter),
2. Ourimbah (Central Coast).

Next closest?
1. Stromlo (Canberra)
2. Lithgow,
3. Wandandian (Nowra),
4. Mt Coramba (Coffs Harbour).

We all know there is an absolute plethora of illegal DH/FR trails around Sydney's bushland. That to me is an indicator that there is a requirement for legal, accessible DH trails. The majority of comments in the discussion are for XC trails to be provided. Seriously, is there that much of a burning need for more XC singletrack in Sydney? How about the XC'ers amongst us put down their chamois cream and leg wax for 5 minutes and consider that the major burning requirement for legal trail currently is for DH tracks.

There you go, hook in if you wish but thats my opinion.
 
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bunchie34

Likes Dirt
How about the XC'ers amongst us put down their chamois cream and leg wax for 5 minutes and consider that the major burning requirement for legal trail currently is for DH tracks.
How about the DH'ers sort it out themselves?

Just sayin'.
 
Thought most of the responses to NPWS were pretty good & on topic - there should be more though.
I know the focus will be on parks surrounding Sydney, but hopefully this state dept will remember that NSW is bigger than just Sydney.
 

Slowman

Likes Dirt
I may get a hammering but I must say this.

I can't walk 5 feet into the bush in the Sydney region without tripping over a legal XC trail. Lets list some shall we?

1. Manly Dam,
2. Appin,
3. Loftus,
4. Mt Annan,
5. Yellomundee,
6. Ourimbah,
7. Awaba.

How many legal DH tracks are there in the Sydney region?

1. Awaba (Hunter),
2. Ourimbah (Central Coast).

Next closest?
1. Stromlo (Canberra)
2. Lithgow,
3. Wandandian (Nowra),
4. Mt Coramba (Coffs Harbour).

We all know there is an absolute plethora of illegal DH/FR trails around Sydney's bushland. That to me is an indicator that there is a requirement for legal, accessible DH trails. The majority of comments in the discussion are for XC trails to be provided. Seriously, is there that much of a burning need for more XC singletrack in Sydney? How about the XC'ers amongst us put down their chamois cream and leg wax for 5 minutes and consider that the major burning requirement for legal trail currently is for DH tracks.

There you go, hook in if you wish but thats my opinion.
Good points. Put them down in that forum if you haven't already. I see some have raised the issue already but it is all relevant. None of us may get all that we want but if we never made a submission on what we want then it is no one's fault but our own.

I'd love to see some legal DH just near some of the XC trailheads so I can watch when I'm done! I'll never ride that stuff but I like to watch! Bloody amazing stuff, who knows with the right kind of accessible set up the non-riding locals might like to come and do a bit of spectating. You guys might just provide the spectacle that might win some of the locals over.
 

Jackstack

Likes Dirt
I may get a hammering but I must say this.
............................
There you go, hook in if you wish but thats my opinion.
There's a lot of very well constructed comments in the forum, stating that DH/FR should not be excluded from this and I wouldn't think you'd get any arguments against here either.
Like Slowman said read the paper and submit your comments, the more the better.
 

crank1979

Likes Bikes and Dirt
C'mon peoples, there's only 200 comments. Don't you have an opinion?

as an aside, I noticed a lot more people volunteering to help build the trails than actual turn up at maintenance days.. why is that? :confused:
That was something I noticed after the first day of responses as well. Maybe they are volunteering the people that already do it to do more!:p
 

J@se

Breezeway Bandit
How about the DH'ers sort it out themselves?

Just sayin'.
That right there is the crux of the issue. Why can't riders of ALL disciplines hook in for trail advocacy for each other? From what I've seen, a great many DH'ers went into bat when the Dam had issues because we usually don't mind a tootle on our XC rigs, but XC'ers are conspicuously absent from any support of legalised DH trails.

There of course are exceptions to that rule before anyone jumps up and down.
 

Slowman

Likes Dirt
That right there is the crux of the issue. Why can't riders of ALL disciplines hook in for trail advocacy for each other? From what I've seen, a great many DH'ers went into bat when the Dam had issues because we usually don't mind a tootle on our XC rigs, but XC'ers are conspicuously absent from any support of legalised DH trails.

There of course are exceptions to that rule before anyone jumps up and down.
You may have answered your own question. I'm guessing any DHer that is serious, has an XC bike, and even a road bike, to get/keep their fitness up. The same would not be true for XC or trail riders and maybe that is why; because they don't ride DH they feel less capable to advocate for DH. You have my support but I simply am unable to advocate on your behalf because I would be talking about stuff I know nothing about. Don't take the comment you quoted as not supporting you but simply an inability to advocate on your behalf - leave it to me to advocate on your behalf and you'll have DH trails that are really long and look like XC trails :D

I live not far from a DH track called Nature Boy's and I ride it on my Stumpy - if I make it half way down before losing my nerve it is a good day :D I reckon I'd straighten out here and there and then it would be real good.
 

J@se

Breezeway Bandit
You may have answered your own question. I'm guessing any DHer that is serious, has an XC bike, and even a road bike, to get/keep their fitness up. The same would not be true for XC or trail riders and maybe that is why; because they don't ride DH they feel less capable to advocate for DH. You have my support but I simply am unable to advocate on your behalf because I would be talking about stuff I know nothing about. Don't take the comment you quoted as not supporting you but simply an inability to advocate on your behalf - leave it to me to advocate on your behalf and you'll have DH trails that are really long and look like XC trails :D

I live not far from a DH track called Nature Boy's and I ride it on my Stumpy - if I make it half way down before losing my nerve it is a good day :D I reckon I'd straighten out here and there and then it would be real good.
Hahaha, nah, I'm certainly not asking for people to design a track for DH'ers. Simply to recognise the need for some legal trails of the DH variety.

I get frustrated reading those comments, and I'm paraphrasing here, "Hurrr Durrr, I rekon what we need is another 20k's of singletrack, Stavros...? Stavros! Come over here and wax my bunghole whilst I type, I don't want to chafe on my next 24hour...!".:D

Perhaps instead they could simply mention there are currently NO legal DH facilities in the Sydney region and that it would cut down on the construction of illegal trails within National Park boundaries if one or two were allowed.
 
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abevern

Likes Dirt
RNP MTB Forum - This Wednesday (13 Oct)

NPWS MTB Forums

Sutherland/Jindabyne and Port Macquarie dates at above link

Firstly - I note that there have already been two forums at Springwood and Turramurra. Has anyone been to these? Any feedback on the structure of the night and the overall mood would be very useful.

If you ride Loftus/RNP and you haven't already booked - you should really call 13PARK (137275) and reserve your spot. Forum is at 1800 this Wednesday, it'd be good to have pro-mountain bikers outnumbering the anti-mountain bikers, that is if you actually want to continue riding in the parks. Don't think for a moment that this is a done-deal.

bev
 

Hooch

Likes Bikes
I went to the turramurra one thursday, sorry i haven't posted anything but left for stromlo early friday for the scotts.
firstly lots of positive feedback for xc and am which seems to be their thrust. no new trails to go in, modify existing illegal tracks to make them legal seems their preferred route.
the DHers had their say, NPWS reckon that DH isn't sustainable, maybe that can be brought up and pushed to say that it can be sustainable, after much discussion though they settled on a case by case basis depending on area.
The rabid enviromentalists tried to turn it into an argument but eventually got shut down, though WSMTB had an argument with one local about hornsby. One lady did put forward a good point though she wanted trails in dead or dying areas or areas that weren't pristine anymore. Her concern was the spread of disease by bikes coming and going or the introduction of weeds and pests into pristine areas. maybe that could be looked into and brought up at the next meeting with evidence to show that we don't do this.
Trail maintenance and sustainability. communication was brought up and manly dam was used as a good example of how mtbers can manage trails, widgets where brought up but were not supported, email to clubs and the alert system red amber green was suggested.
maybe also follow up on this.
facilities came up, general consensus was facilities for mtbers wasn't major as most brought what was needed with them. just parking though if you have any suggestions that might be included.
trail use was discussed, they want singletrack single use and dual use pathways but expressed concern about collisions between bikes and walkers. the dog on a leash was the example they used. Again a club rep mentioned that despite all these stories actual incidents on the trail of such collisions is pretty well non existant.
Signage was brought up for the trails with things like general rules and types of courses so that the courses can be catered for relevant skill levels.
hope this helps.
 

Slowman

Likes Dirt
NPWS meeting on Wednesday 6PM at Sutherland United Services Club

Got this email...

This Wednesday night is the National Parks and Wildlife Service meeting to discuss mountain biking in NSW National Parks. The meeting is to be held at the Sutherland United Services Club between 6 and 8pm. At the other meetings held by the NPWS around the state to discuss the topic in recent weeks, mountain bikers have come out in great numbers to support the sport and to participate in the meeting, voicing their opinions, concerns and making positive suggestions about creating more legal single track in National Parks. This Wednesday night’s meeting is to be particularly aimed at The Royal National Park, Heathcote National Park as well as the Menai area.

I think it would be great if all those riders who can make the meeting, do make the effort and head down to the SUS Club and become involved – strength in numbers!

https://mountainbiking.discussions.nsw.gov.au/
...
I get frustrated reading those comments, and I'm paraphrasing here, "Hurrr Durrr, I rekon what we need is another 20k's of singletrack, Stavros...? Stavros! Come over here and wax my bunghole whilst I type, I don't want to chafe on my next 24hour...!".:D
...
Was that the Kojak School of Paraphrasing you attended? :D
 
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