New geometry and consequences for bike fit

Oddjob

Merry fucking Xmas to you assholes
Damn, yes I did.

The SA on the old school geo pushes the seat tube back about 50mm from where the ETT measures to. A steeper seat angle will bring it forward from there.

Is that what you meant?

Appreciate feel changes with new geo but I'm just trying to get the same riding position when seated so I'm comfortable. Figure I'll get used to the big wheels and different angles over time as long as I'm comfy and not stuffing my back.
Where are you based? I'm the same height and have a variety of bikes you could have a bounce on, I also have a digital inclinometer. Hint: most geo charts are bullshit.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
 

ashes_mtb

Has preferences
Where are you based? I'm the same height and have a variety of bikes you could have a bounce on, I also have a digital inclinometer. Hint: most geo charts are bullshit.

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk
Perth. I asked our Premier about lifting the border closures so I could fly east for some testing and the prick said no deal.

I'll see if I can find something similar to test. Suppose that is the wise option considering my tendency to keep bikes for decades.
 

The Reverend

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I'll tell you now that the STA is a real consideration.
I'm 1.93m too, On my XL Hardtail with 76° STA and 500mm reach it feels a touch shorter than my XL FS bikes which have 76° and 75° STA respectively and 480mm reach. Playing about with 40mm to 60mm stems too.

The weight on my hands from the steeper STA took some getting used to.
Interestingly the centre of the stem / handlebars to the tip of the saddle is similar (within 10mm) but this is static and doesn't take into account sag as I sit on the bike.

You definitely need to test before spending.
 

hellmansam

Likes Bikes and Dirt
I recently had a sit on a Large '21 model Norco Sight, on paper the reach looks long but isn't thanks to the steep STA.
 

Calvin27

Eats Squid
I recently had a sit on a Large '21 model Norco Sight, on paper the reach looks long but isn't thanks to the steep STA.
It sucks with the market the way it is right now. Good luck trying to test a bike - anything decent value and popular (norcos and giants for example) you pay just to jump in line...
 

shiny

Go-go-gadget-wrist-thingy
Thread dig.

So riding new geometry and interesting article on Pinkbike where pros with around 470 ish reach mostly running 40-50mm stems.


I have a 35mm stem currently. So with ETT and stem I am only 5mm off my previous 10yr old bike stem and ETT.

I don’t think I would notice 5mm difference but tempted to try a 50mm stem to see how it feels given the much steeper seat angle on my modern bike.

I am getting some hand pain and playing with bar roll and seat position at the moment.

Bars still at 800 and will trim down to 780 and likely end up at my preferred width of 760.

Anyone else played with various stem lengths? Presume I will have more weight over the front and be a little more stretched out.
 

beeb

Dr. Beebenson, PhD HA, ST, Offset (hons)
Presume I will have more weight over the front and be a little more stretched out.
Pretty much this, steering will probably feel a bit slower too.

Sometimes because the weight is more naturally over the front wheel you don't have to do it as consciously and it can (sometimes, possibly...) feel less fatiguing.
 

ashes_mtb

Has preferences
Thread dig.

So riding new geometry and interesting article on Pinkbike where pros with around 470 ish reach mostly running 40-50mm stems.


I have a 35mm stem currently. So with ETT and stem I am only 5mm off my previous 10yr old bike stem and ETT.

I don’t think I would notice 5mm difference but tempted to try a 50mm stem to see how it feels given the much steeper seat angle on my modern bike.

I am getting some hand pain and playing with bar roll and seat position at the moment.

Bars still at 800 and will trim down to 780 and likely end up at my preferred width of 760.

Anyone else played with various stem lengths? Presume I will have more weight over the front and be a little more stretched out.
I’m 193cm and ended up sizing down to a large (470mm reach) and running a 60mm stem. Tried an XL with 500mm reach and 35mm stem which worked out a similar riding position, but preferred the shorter wheelbase for handling and more weight over the front wheel for cornering traction.
 

kten

understands stuff moorey doesn't
I’m 193cm and ended up sizing down to a large (470mm reach) and running a 60mm stem. Tried an XL with 500mm reach and 35mm stem which worked out a similar riding position, but preferred the shorter wheelbase for handling and more weight over the front wheel for cornering traction.
What bike and how long are the chainstays? I’m really digging longer chainstays but the choices are slim above 450mm.
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
I got stems !

Should have 50mm x 35mm and 50mm x 31.8mm here if you want to try one.

Came back in 5mm (each side) increments on my OneUp Carbon bars, now at 760mm wide.
I have wide shoulders and rode 800mm for a few years, even on my XC bike. It's too wide and was giving the feeling of pulling me forward over the front when heading towards full 90° lock.
 

ashes_mtb

Has preferences
What bike and how long are the chainstays? I’m really digging longer chainstays but the choices are slim above 450mm.
Norco Fluid FS; 430mm. The newer version has the size specific CS lengths, but they’re only 5mm longer in the large and the reach and ett are longer as well so I’d probably go down to a 50mm stem if I had one of those.
 
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shiny

Go-go-gadget-wrist-thingy
I got stems !

Should have 50mm x 35mm and 50mm x 31.8mm here if you want to try one.

Came back in 5mm (each side) increments on my OneUp Carbon bars, now at 760mm wide.
I have wide shoulders and rode 800mm for a few years, even on my XC bike. It's too wide and was giving the feeling of pulling me forward over the front when heading towards full 90° lock.
Cheers. Will do a couple more rides with bar and seat changes and will be in contact.:)
 

ozzybmx

taking a shit with my boobs out
Cheers. Will do a couple more rides with bar and seat changes and will be in contact.:)
Knock the bars to 780mm first.

I was getting wrist pain up until about 6 months ago, it was bar roll that was my issue. The additional bar width may have contributed to it also.

All tickety-boo now.
 

Litenbror

Eats Squid
I got stems !

Should have 50mm x 35mm and 50mm x 31.8mm here if you want to try one.

Came back in 5mm (each side) increments on my OneUp Carbon bars, now at 760mm wide.
I have wide shoulders and rode 800mm for a few years, even on my XC bike. It's too wide and was giving the feeling of pulling me forward over the front when heading towards full 90° lock.
Don't suppose you have 45 x 31.8mm?
 

yuley95

soft-arse Yuley is on the lifts again
Thread dig.

So riding new geometry and interesting article on Pinkbike where pros with around 470 ish reach mostly running 40-50mm stems.


I have a 35mm stem currently. So with ETT and stem I am only 5mm off my previous 10yr old bike stem and ETT.

I don’t think I would notice 5mm difference but tempted to try a 50mm stem to see how it feels given the much steeper seat angle on my modern bike.

I am getting some hand pain and playing with bar roll and seat position at the moment.

Bars still at 800 and will trim down to 780 and likely end up at my preferred width of 760.

Anyone else played with various stem lengths? Presume I will have more weight over the front and be a little more stretched out.
I was on a bike with 495 reach and 632 top tube and 78 degree effective seat angle (Nukeproof Mega).
I'm now on a bike with 500 reach, 638 top tube and 77.5 degree effective seat angle (Kavenz). The numbers look really similar and you might think the Kavenz would have just a touch extra room but it doesn't. It's noticeably shorter for seated pedalling and climbing.

One measurement that needs to be considered is actual seat angle. The Nukeproof slackened off to just over 70 degrees actual angle while the Kavenz remains steep at 75.5 degrees. It means that with the seat post at full extension, the Nukeproof moved me back a fair way but the Kavenz doesn't.

I've found it means I have more weight on my hands and feel a bit cramped on flat trails but it climbs much better. Swings and roundabouts. I've gone from a 35mm stem to a 40mm and will soon change to 45mm which I think will be my sweet spot.
 

shiny

Go-go-gadget-wrist-thingy
I was on a bike with 495 reach and 632 top tube and 78 degree effective seat angle (Nukeproof Mega).
I'm now on a bike with 500 reach, 638 top tube and 77.5 degree effective seat angle (Kavenz). The numbers look really similar and you might think the Kavenz would have just a touch extra room but it doesn't. It's noticeably shorter for seated pedalling and climbing.

One measurement that needs to be considered is actual seat angle. The Nukeproof slackened off to just over 70 degrees actual angle while the Kavenz remains steep at 75.5 degrees. It means that with the seat post at full extension, the Nukeproof moved me back a fair way but the Kavenz doesn't.

I've found it means I have more weight on my hands and feel a bit cramped on flat trails but it climbs much better. Swings and roundabouts. I've gone from a 35mm stem to a 40mm and will soon change to 45mm which I think will be my sweet spot.
I think the Highlander is similar to Kevin in that it remains steep. Weird thing is the bike feels short sitting on it in the shed but once pedaling it feels fine. Will trim the bars and see how it feels, also need to get some smaller headset spacers to fine tune the stem height as well then look to stem swaps.
 

DrHarry

Do you feel lucky? Do you pup?
I find this thread super interesting. And if you read anything by Paul Aston or the Mojo people I'm sure you do to.

I was on a large Giant Trance. Tested the small (then) Stumpy Evo, the S2 size and loved it. Got back on the trance and it felt too small.

Bought the S3 Evo, in 27.5 because it was the longest bike I could easily get at the time. I think a 490mm reach?

I later got very lucky and got a Kenevo at a very affordable price and went for the largest, the S5 with 520mm reach. Kenevo was amazing, so much so that getting back on the Evo felt like getting on a BMX. Ended up selling the Kenevo and Evo and bought a Geometron G16 (from the forums here) with 520mm reach and instantly loved it.

Had been set up stupidly slack, approx 60 degree HA, but even with that it still climbed great and was a monster on the downs. I did heaps of experimentation with different shocks, different flip chip positions, different wheels front and rear and genuinely they were all good, just different. For me the extra length made feel like I wasn't cramped and could stay "inside" the wheels, while all the other adjustments just changed the feel.

In fact I liked it so much that I ponied up to go even longer and bought a G1 frame with a 535mm reach and it is fantastic. I have had no issues with that size at all, and it's a very big bike.

For me the reach seems to be the most important number, because I don't need to have my seat jammed all the way, which automatically makes climbing easier. A steep seat angle, long reach and a slack end all feel great to me. I'm also convinced that longer chainstays are better. My theory is that the story CS makes the bike more out of control, which makes it feel more "playful".

Lastly, I'm convinced that a higher BB is better. The Evo was a downhill weapon, but way too low and pedal strikes were pretty constant. A higher BB and shorter cranks have had no downsides for me at all.

Now I'm not a great rider, by any means. I'm too heavy, I'm too wussy and I don't have great skills. For me, a bike that looks after me is better, while a high skill rider might be quite comfortable being constantly a little bit out of control.

I'm 188cm with a normal wingspan, but very long legs, and I can't really see myself on a bike shorter than 520mm. At least, not without a very good reason.

My feeling is that someone who is a fair bit shorter than me would still be fine with that reach.

And on a related note, I have a 520mm reach G16 frame for sale in fantastic condition, people just need to look past the long reach to realise what a sweet bike it is! I've upgraded to longer, not necessarily better.
 
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